Council ‘kills’ Kids’ Puppy Dog

[sandgrubber]

Thanks, Andrew Antoniolli JP(QUAL) Councillor for Division 7 for providing the other side of the story.

I have had dogs end up in the pound twice (my dogs once, a visiting fence-jumper the other time). I live at the intersection of four Councils, so finding dogs requires a few calls . . . but still, I have been able to locate my dogs within hours of their going missing by hammering away at the phone. (My dogs were microchipped but the chip had migrated and the Rangers didn't find the chips). Getting them back was inconvenient . . . pound hours are limited, etc., and I had to pay some fines, etc.

I'm not in QLD. But I think it's the case in most of Australia, that if your dog gets out, a sensible first step is to call the local Pound and leave a number . . . so in case the dog is turned in hours later, it will be on record as missing. And to accept that, like many other things, Murphy's Law is in force. It's better to be obnoxious and keep phoning than risk your dog being PTS or rehomed.

If you don't think 3 days is long enough, find out what the limit is at your local council . . . and have a go at getting the limit increased by legal means.

[shel]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for stopping by; a councillor who takes the time to address the concerns of the community is a rare gem, so we appreciate you taking time out to chat with us.

Can I first congratulate you on your council pounds' opening hours (Monday to Friday from 8.00 am - 5.30 pm, with a weekends, a/h's number) as it's certainly longer than many councils in Australia. The fact you are working with rescue groups in your area to adopt out rehomable pets is also fantastic.

I think people questioning when the system fails is vital to continuing to improve outcomes for shelter pets. The story of this family's heartbreak should serve to re-enforce the notion that impounded pets are usually lost family members and every avenue must be exhausted to try and reunite them with their families.

We look forward to updates as they come to light,

:)shel

[Guest Ams]

Unfortunately the after hours phone number goes to an answer service who do not take details of the lost/found animal but simply refers you to the RSPCA. I know because I tried last weekend to report a dog lost in the storms on Saturday and could not do it. I agree the open hours are good but being able to report the animal as lost after hours is also important.

[Sheridan]

Thank you, Andrew. I asked if the hotline number was listed at the front of the pound. Are you able to advise if it is?

Would you take a look at the ACT Government's website for Domestic Animal Services? People are able to upload details of their lost dogs, report found dogs, and all impounded dogs are listed on the website as well with a photo. This is an excellent system which allows people to check online for their animals. Could Ipswich have something like this? DAS also works closely with local rescue groups and they have a high rate of rehoming. Are there rescue groups outside of the RSPCA and AWL who could help with rehoming? A good example of council working with a no kill shelter is SADS in Victoria, which has a foster care scheme. Perhaps you could look to there for ideas.

I am from Victoria and the impound period is eight days there, which is a much more generous time to allow people to find their lost animals. Could Ipswich consider stretching out the three days to a longer period? I once looked after a dog for three days (pound was closed) because there was no response from the owner. If someone is away then a three day period would have failed them. I agree that people should have their animals microchipped and their fences secure but a more generous period would help. It seems that the system failed this puppy and it's good you're looking into it.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Sheridan

[Miss B]

If someone is away then a three day period would have failed them.

How so? No dog should ever be left unsupervised for 3 days. If an owner is away and the dog is being looked after by someone, then presumably the dog is being fed/watered and checked on at least once a day. This would give the carer ample opportunity to notice the dog missing and get in touch with council within 3 working days.

[Sheridan]

If someone is away then a three day period would have failed them.

How so? No dog should ever be left unsupervised for 3 days. If an owner is away and the dog is being looked after by someone, then presumably the dog is being fed/watered and checked on at least once a day. This would give the carer ample opportunity to notice the dog missing and get in touch with council within 3 working days.

You're presuming that someone is looking after the dog instead of dumping it in the cages outside the pound. I was an involuntary carer. Perhaps I should have dumped the dog and gone to Sydney like I was supposed to.

[Miss B]

If someone is away then a three day period would have failed them.

How so? No dog should ever be left unsupervised for 3 days. If an owner is away and the dog is being looked after by someone, then presumably the dog is being fed/watered and checked on at least once a day. This would give the carer ample opportunity to notice the dog missing and get in touch with council within 3 working days.

You're presuming that someone is looking after the dog instead of dumping it in the cages outside the pound. I was an involuntary carer. Perhaps I should have dumped the dog and gone to Sydney like I was supposed to.

I'm confused, I don't think I understand the situation you are describing? Sorry.

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

Again, in response to those that think 3 days is not enough (and let's understand that means 3 'clear' business days - not weekends or pub hols etc - that means usually about 5 days); Most dogs are collected within 2 days from the time of impoundment. That means that the numbers of dogs collected after that time are very small. What's left (and that can sometimes be a large number) are unclaimed and remain unclaimed.

Even if someone is away, if they have done the right thing and had the dog registered and wearing the rego tag, perhaps a collar with added ID on it and also had the dog micro-chipped then there would be little or no chance that the dog would be PTS as all efforts would be made to locate the owner.

Some contributors to this forum seem to be making excuses for irresponsible owners. Pls remember in 99.9% of cases any dog that is PTS it is because of an irresponsible owner, not because of some unsympathetic or heartless council or council officer.

I will be taking some of the suggestions regarding the best way to contact pounds and RSPCA etc after hours back to my council for further consideration. We should always strive to improve.

I thank Shel for her comments about our pound operating hours. Whilst they are generally better than most they are customer and demand driven. That said we are looking at improving that further.

I wish to reiterate that I'm not being indignant on the issue of 3 business days for the holding of dogs/cats. Our internal research of our area/city has found that increasing this period will not increase the number of collections of impounded dogs. It will however, drive up costs considerably so that it may force dog rego fees up to an unaffordable level.

Whilst I appreciate that many of you are owners of 'entire' dogs for the purpose of breeding, we have a strategy to increase the number of registered desexed dogs by ensuring that our desexed fees are much lower than entire fees and that in the main the fees for entire dogs goes up steeper than desexed dog fees.

This is a strategy backed by science that shows that desexed dogs wander/roam less and are less aggressive. Whilst the requirement to have a 2 tiered system of dog rego is enforced by State legislation we have perfected a systme of fees that keeps it affordable for desexed dogs and a reminder to entire dogs that they could save money if the dog was desexed.

Ipswich City Council is credited with have one of the best compliance rates for dog registration in Queensland and our fee structure appears to assist that.

Again that said we are always striving to improve our service and provide more initiatives.

I thank the contributors for their comments and suggestions.

[Kirty]

I also live in Victoria, and here owners have 8 days to reclaim their pets. Our registration fees are not 'unaffordable' - we pay about $30 per pet per year (if desexed or chipped). Pound staff will quite often identify a dog as a totally different breed to what the owner describes it as. If the owner cannot visit the pound in person for a few days, the dog may be PTS simply because of a misunderstanding. 3 days is really not enough time - 5 days should be a minimum. Some people also do not like to leave collars on their dogs and cats for safety reasons, or collars can come off when the pet escapes. Microchips have been known to migrate down an animal's leg or rib cage and therefore be missed when being scanned. There are so many possible scenarios and that's why I believe 3 days is not enough time.

[Sheridan]

I also live in Victoria, and here owners have 8 days to reclaim their pets. Our registration fees are not 'unaffordable' - we pay about $30 per pet per year (if desexed or chipped). Pound staff will quite often identify a dog as a totally different breed to what the owner describes it as. If the owner cannot visit the pound in person for a few days, the dog may be PTS simply because of a misunderstanding. 3 days is really not enough time - 5 days should be a minimum. Some people also do not like to leave collars on their dogs and cats for safety reasons, or collars can come off when the pet escapes. Microchips have been known to migrate down an animal's leg or rib cage and therefore be missed when being scanned. There are so many possible scenarios and that's why I believe 3 days is not enough time.

Ditto, Kirty.

[HugUrPup]

I also agree with Kirty.

There are also many shelters and pounds in Victoria one may have to visit as most wouldn't just trust that the person on the phone who claims no dog fitting that description has come in. For example, I rescued a kitten a couple of weeks ago and had to leave details of the kitten at 4 shelters, 2 councils (I am in one and near the border of another)and the RSPCA. If I was looking for my pet I would need to visit each place and there are only so many hours in a day. If I visited 1 each day that would already be 6 days worth.

This kitten was also not yet microchipped and wore no collar. She was only 12 weeks old and may have escaped the same day she was bought therefore the owners wouldn't have had a chance to get the chip yet. Kitten are also known for taking off their own collars and many people don't like to use a collar on a pet so young because of their rapid growth and risk of it becoming too tight on the throat overnight.

[Baby Dragon]

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Edited February 14, 2010 by Baby Dragon

[sandra64]

I am sure Mr Antoniolli is a very busy man and i believe he has all intentions of getting to the bottom of this matter, but if in fact Ipswich has such a brilliant rego stat, why is it and i am not pointing fingers here, that when the Ipswich council came to our home last year to check my dogs registration and to see if we had greyhounds on our property, and to check our fences, which we passed all questions and no we dont have racing greyhounds on our property, but when he went next door and couldnt get near the front door of the home because at that point in time there were 2 dogs unregistered barking at him, 2 became 3 and then one went missing due to the fact it allegedly attacked one of our sheep, how come the council has NEVER come back to find out why those dogs are not in an enclosed yard and can wander wherever they feel and do not have registration. I even said to the animal control guy, these dogs wander all over the place, they chase the horses that are enclosed in paddocks, why are these problems being ignored and yet they are right on the ball when it comes to a beautiful obviously well bred pup. As for the dogs next door, its the owner who is at fault 100%, but if the council fails to act on this when pointed out to them in person what more can one do

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

I am sure Mr Antoniolli is a very busy man and i believe he has all intentions of getting to the bottom of this matter, but if in fact Ipswich has such a brilliant rego stat, why is it and i am not pointing fingers here, that when the Ipswich council came to our home last year to check my dogs registration and to see if we had greyhounds on our property, and to check our fences, which we passed all questions and no we dont have racing greyhounds on our property, but when he went next door and couldnt get near the front door of the home because at that point in time there were 2 dogs unregistered barking at him, 2 became 3 and then one went missing due to the fact it allegedly attacked one of our sheep, how come the council has NEVER come back to find out why those dogs are not in an enclosed yard and can wander wherever they feel and do not have registration. I even said to the animal control guy, these dogs wander all over the place, they chase the horses that are enclosed in paddocks, why are these problems being ignored and yet they are right on the ball when it comes to a beautiful obviously well bred pup. As for the dogs next door, its the owner who is at fault 100%, but if the council fails to act on this when pointed out to them in person what more can one do

It is hard to follow up on a matter with the scant details above. Pls feel free to contact with me so that I can follow-up. My contact details are as follows - 0419 025 407.

[HugUrPup]

Hi Andrew, I hope you are taking on board our suggestions on a longer holding period.

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

Hi Andrew, I hope you are taking on board our suggestions on a longer holding period.

We recently discussed this matter at length in council. I appreciate that many have views on this, however, it's hard to dispute facts.

Our research has clearly shown that 3 clear business days (which totals in the end nearly 5 or more holding days) is sufficient. I have previously commented on this forum that approx. 80% (of collected dogs) are collected by or reunited with owners within 2 days.

We also have the ability to hold dogs for longer periods if we have a strong belief that the dog is identifiable (i.e. microchipped, rego tag etc.).

I find it hard to believe that someone who loves their pets requires up to 8 days to collect a dog from the pound. Our research supports this and it is clearly understood by local residents that our policy is 3 days.

I'm not being dogmatic (no pun intended) or indignant, it is clearly supported by our research.

Further to that costs associated with holding dogs for longer means higher rego fees and higher sustenance fees which may not be paid for by dog owners, therefore you run the risk of having higher numbers of uncollected dogs thereby leading to more dogs to rehouse, thereby meaning more stress on animal welfare shelters, thereby leading to more dogs PTS.

Extending the period is not the answer. The solution lies with registration, compulsary wearing of rego tags and microchipping. I am at least admitting that I am dogmatic about that.

[megan_]

I also live in Victoria, and here owners have 8 days to reclaim their pets. Our registration fees are not 'unaffordable' - we pay about $30 per pet per year (if desexed or chipped). Pound staff will quite often identify a dog as a totally different breed to what the owner describes it as. If the owner cannot visit the pound in person for a few days, the dog may be PTS simply because of a misunderstanding. 3 days is really not enough time - 5 days should be a minimum. Some people also do not like to leave collars on their dogs and cats for safety reasons, or collars can come off when the pet escapes. Microchips have been known to migrate down an animal's leg or rib cage and therefore be missed when being scanned. There are so many possible scenarios and that's why I believe 3 days is not enough time.

yes - and some dogs only turn up to the pounds weeks - months - after they've gone missing. This means that the owner needs to physically visit the pound every few days for months on end, less their dog be PTS.

[Diva]

Extending the period is not the answer. The solution lies with registration, compulsary wearing of rego tags and microchipping. I am at least admitting that I am dogmatic about that.

Cr Antoniolli, it's great you came on the forum. You are to be commended for taking the trouble.

I stongly support compulsory microchipping. And of course registration. But I'm less convinced by relying on compulsory wearing of rego tags.

If my dogs ever ended out and about without me it would be because my 2 metre fences had been seriously damaged or someone had broken open a padlocked gate or locked door. They wouldn't then be wearing rego tags or collars, it's too dangerous to leave them on at home, even purpose designed 'breakaway' collars. The way they play someone would get a jaw or foot caught in someone else's collar and I could easily end up with one strangled dead dog and another badly injured. If I take them out deliberately, then of course they have collars and tags.

I'm not in Qld, but I'm sure there would those who are who also don't leave collars on at home for the best of reasons, not disregard. Probably not in the majority but not to be penalised for that all the same. Not having a collar on a stray dog may not mean irresponsible ownership. Hopefully such careful owners would have microchipped.

[blissirritated]

Ipswich City Council Pound did not cross reference with the RSPCA before they put her down.

Aside from this particular line, I don't see how the Ipswich Council was at fault?

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

I also live in Victoria, and here owners have 8 days to reclaim their pets. Our registration fees are not 'unaffordable' - we pay about $30 per pet per year (if desexed or chipped). Pound staff will quite often identify a dog as a totally different breed to what the owner describes it as. If the owner cannot visit the pound in person for a few days, the dog may be PTS simply because of a misunderstanding. 3 days is really not enough time - 5 days should be a minimum. Some people also do not like to leave collars on their dogs and cats for safety reasons, or collars can come off when the pet escapes. Microchips have been known to migrate down an animal's leg or rib cage and therefore be missed when being scanned. There are so many possible scenarios and that's why I believe 3 days is not enough time.

yes - and some dogs only turn up to the pounds weeks - months - after they've gone missing. This means that the owner needs to physically visit the pound every few days for months on end, less their dog be PTS.

A good point and I would suspect that aside from the possible migration issue or fault issue of microchips this would be the best solution.

That said, I am looking into our (and RSPCA's) Lost and Found Index (LFI) to see how we can improve.