Council ‘kills’ Kids’ Puppy Dog

[Sheridan]

I'm not suggesting he did, just trying to put forward a balanced argument. Five years ago things were different and that number may not have been available then but from memory I think it was. As I have said the RSPCA is not perfect but I sometimes cringe when I read things written that vilify the shelters when I know the lengths that the staff go to to try to locate owners for these dogs before they are pts. A search is even conducted IMMEDIATELY before pts, just to make sure their owner has not put in a last minute report.

For the record I do not work for the RSPCA but do volunteer and do foster for them. I also do breed specific rescue for a breed that does not necessarily have a good reputation within pounds and shelters or within the veterinary community so I think that places me in a position to view the world from both sides.

Do they have the hotline number on the outside of their shelters? If not, I guess their caring doesn't extend that much.

[Lhok]

I think the whole procedure of locating owner's of animals should have a review as you hear these types of stories lot, I know my local RSPCA shelter scans for microchips and phones the owner then leaves it at that. If the dog for what ever reason doesn't have a chip they don't really bother trying to local the owner and either sell it or pts. Surely there has to be another way, I can only go by what I know after volunteering at my local RSPCA and I believe they (well at least my local one) really do not do the best they can for the animals under their care to get them back to their owners if they are strays.

--Lhok

Ps I do know however not all rspca shelters are like mine and I do acknowledge they there are some out there that do good work in the sense they do rehome animals.

[Guest Ams]

Do they have the hotline number on the outside of their shelters? If not, I guess their caring doesn't extend that much.

I don't know but I will ask and make the suggestion as it is a good one.

[Crisovar]

We do not have a "Shelter" locally, we only have the Pound, which of course is simply a holding facility, that's all pounds are, they are not animal welfare facilities.

Impounded animals have 3 working days, day of impounding, weekends, public holidays not included, after that they become the property of the council and may be sold or PTS. Interested persons may contact council with expressions of interest in the event the animal is not reunited with it's owner.

All animals are photographed and entered onto the Pound website. All animals are scanned on pickup and checked for rego tag. If they are chipped, reg'd or wearing an ID tag the owners are contacted by phone. Many times multiple attempts have to be made to contact owners. Many times contact is unable to be made.

A lot animals get extra time, but it is not possible to hang onto all unclaimed animals and attempt to rehome them.

Space and costs do not allow for it. It is also seriously not in the best interest tof the animals to have them languishing in the pound for extended periods.

Animal Control costs the ratepayers big time, the cost of 6 ACOs available 24/7, vehicles, phones and equipment on top of impoundment costs and disposal costs make it an expensive department to maintain.

A lot of councils are working on improving the systems they have but it all takes time and it takes money.

[MolassesLass]

Was the puppy not microchipped (that is law now in Qld I thought)? Hopefully the breeder does this from now on (assuming they didn't this time).

Id gives a dog 7 days instead of 3 in a lot of councils too.

[Crisovar]

All council areas come on line with the new regulations by December 2010, until then the regulations are not state wide.

I don't think Townsville has implemented them yet, many regional councils haven't as yet.

[MolassesLass]

Ah, thanks for that info Crisovar.

[SnoPaws]

Won't get into a debate, too late at night but how very sad for the family involved

[Erny]

Actually, the more I think about it ... I think there is a very good chance that someone from the council decided to keep the puppy and claim that it was destroyed.

She was a pure bred border collie puppy. The story doesn't say how old, but you can assume well under 6 months. It just doesn't make sense that she was destroyed - unless the people who work at this pound are totally barbaric.

IMO, there is a very good chance she was taken by a council worker either to keep as a pet or to on sell for hundreds of dollars.

I've become a cynic and I'm very aware of that, and try to second guess myself when my mind wanders in that direction. But like you, Mum to Emma, I can't help but think that 'somethings up'. A purebreed BC puppy, and they can't or don't rehome it, only giving it minimal time before pts? Doesn't make sense to me.

[GABBA]

I have not read all replies, only the first few, but if Ipswich destroys dogs after 3 working days, that is absolutely criminal. There is nothing humane about it.

Went to Ipswich once, didnt care for it much then, and dont care for it much now.

Edited February 13, 2010 by GABBA

[HugUrPup]

It seems like the pup would have been less than 6 months old for sure. How could they PTS a baby???? Pure bred at that!!!!

[Crisovar]

Actually, the more I think about it ... I think there is a very good chance that someone from the council decided to keep the puppy and claim that it was destroyed.

She was a pure bred border collie puppy. The story doesn't say how old, but you can assume well under 6 months. It just doesn't make sense that she was destroyed - unless the people who work at this pound are totally barbaric.

IMO, there is a very good chance she was taken by a council worker either to keep as a pet or to on sell for hundreds of dollars.

I've become a cynic and I'm very aware of that, and try to second guess myself when my mind wanders in that direction. But like you, Mum to Emma, I can't help but think that 'somethings up'. A purebreed BC puppy, and they can't or don't rehome it, only giving it minimal time before pts? Doesn't make sense to me.

Puppys get PTS in pounds every week, there is nothing barbaric about it, Pounds cannot keep them all, if they are unclaimed, rescue does not take them on or a member of the public does not buy them, what do you propose Pounds do with them.

You want a extra chance for a B/Collie pup, someone else thinks they should keep all the SWF, I'd like to see all the souphounds kept. Where does it stop. We are talking about POUNDS, not SHELTERS or RESCUE facilities.

I can tell you that in regional pounds where the majority of dogs are working dog derivatives a B/Collie would have even less chance.

The sad thing is over the early part of the year numbers of animals in pounds rise sharply, space is limited, and many many pups and kittens and worthy adult dogs are PTS. It is not reasonable to to expect a pound to keep them all, there simply is not the resources to.

Every week something in the pound tugs someones heart strings and that someone will go to extra lengths to try and rehome it, to give it extra time etc, however at the end of the day there is only so much room, so much budget and they cannot all be saved. This time it was a border collie (so we are told) last week for me it was a huge souphound doofus cross. There will always be something.

We also only know part of the story here, what condition was the pup in? did it cope well with being kenneled, if it continually barked or screamed whilst it was in it's chances are lower.

[Crisovar]

I have not read all replies, only the first few, but if Ipswich destroys dogs after 3 working days, that is absolutely criminal. There is nothing humane about it.

Went to Ipswich once, didnt care for it much then, and dont care for it much now.

What would you like to them to do with all the dogs?

[Mum to Emma]

I have not read all replies, only the first few, but if Ipswich destroys dogs after 3 working days, that is absolutely criminal. There is nothing humane about it.

Went to Ipswich once, didnt care for it much then, and dont care for it much now.

What would you like to them to do with all the dogs?

Take a more proactive approach to animal welfare, for one. For example

* link with an animal rescue/rehoming organisation

* retain a list of breed welfare groups who will immediately collect and foster unclaimed strays

In Melbourne, the Stonnington Council Pound is Save-A-Dog Scheme, which has a no-kill policy. Some dogs have been listed on their site for adoption for months. So clearly not all councils take the brutal approach of Ipswich.

[Crisovar]

I have not read all replies, only the first few, but if Ipswich destroys dogs after 3 working days, that is absolutely criminal. There is nothing humane about it.

Went to Ipswich once, didnt care for it much then, and dont care for it much now.

What would you like to them to do with all the dogs?

Take a more proactive approach to animal welfare, for one. For example

* link with an animal rescue/rehoming organisation

* retain a list of breed welfare groups who will immediately collect and foster unclaimed strays

In Melbourne, the Stonnington Council Pound is Save-A-Dog Scheme, which has a no-kill policy. Some dogs have been listed on their site for adoption for months. So clearly not all councils take the brutal approach of Ipswich.

Not all councils are in the same situation as Stonnington either.

[Crisovar]

I understand that we want to save as many animals as we can, but the reality is that it is not the Councils who have put these animals in the situation they are in.

Our council blasts it's message on TV, in the press, in the monthly Council newsletter about responsible ownership.

They offer vouchers and discounts for owners who do the right thing, fees are discounted for responsible owners, but still the animals roll in.

The owners of these animals (and they all have owners at some stage) are the ones that need to take responsibility.

Until then councils are left to foot the bill.

It is great that some areas have rescue groups and shelters that will jump forward to save as many as they can, but the reality is that it does not happen every where, and I think it unrealistic to expect Councils to fill this need.

[Mum to Emma]

I understand that we want to save as many animals as we can, but the reality is that it is not the Councils who have put these animals in the situation they are in.

Our council blasts it's message on TV, in the press, in the monthly Council newsletter about responsible ownership.

They offer vouchers and discounts for owners who do the right thing, fees are discounted for responsible owners, but still the animals roll in.

The owners of these animals (and they all have owners at some stage) are the ones that need to take responsibility.

Until then councils are left to foot the bill.

It is great that some areas have rescue groups and shelters that will jump forward to save as many as they can, but the reality is that it does not happen every where, and I think it unrealistic to expect Councils to fill this need.

We're talking about lost animals here, not those knowingly dumped by, for example, foreign students returning home (a big problem in Melbourne).

I agree that there's no substitute for responsible pet ownership, but saying that it's unrealistic for Councils to provide animal welfare services is like saying that it's unreasonable to expect Councils to provide public libraries. It's all part of the service they provide in exchange for collecting rates.

[Kynta]

I understand that we want to save as many animals as we can, but the reality is that it is not the Councils who have put these animals in the situation they are in.

Our council blasts it's message on TV, in the press, in the monthly Council newsletter about responsible ownership.

They offer vouchers and discounts for owners who do the right thing, fees are discounted for responsible owners, but still the animals roll in.

The owners of these animals (and they all have owners at some stage) are the ones that need to take responsibility.

Until then councils are left to foot the bill.

It is great that some areas have rescue groups and shelters that will jump forward to save as many as they can, but the reality is that it does not happen every where, and I think it unrealistic to expect Councils to fill this need.

We're talking about lost animals here, not those knowingly dumped by, for example, foreign students returning home (a big problem in Melbourne).

I agree that there's no substitute for responsible pet ownership, but saying that it's unrealistic for Councils to provide animal welfare services is like saying that it's unreasonable to expect Councils to provide public libraries. It's all part of the service they provide in exchange for collecting rates.

And don't forget dog registration fees.

[Bluefairy]

I find this so sad...

Our Bulldog managed to jump a 4ft fence of her pen, had no idea she could do it, and it wasn't discovered until about an hour later. We found a lady in the next street who had found her and rang the dog catcher, we rang her and found she had a dog matching our dogs description with her. We went straight up there and there was our dog waiting for the dog catchers young girls to get out the bath so she could play. It wasn't until we arrived that she checked the microchip and the name tag and council reg tags the dog was wearing. She said if no one claimed her she was going to keep her....I often wonder if we hadn't of been told our dog was there....would we have been notified. I don't think so, and we were the only ones in the rural area to own a bulldog.

Its scary to know you may not get your pet back, not just because they couldn't find the owner, but because some took a fancy to your dog.

Bluefairy

[Cr Andrew Antoniolli]

Firstly, allow me to introduce myself. I am a Councillor with Ipswich City Council and my primary portfolio is 'Health & Regulation' which encompasses 'Animal Management'.

I have just registered to comment on this forum in order to respond to some of the erroneous matters that it contains and perhaps put some facts out there for comment and feedback.

Before doing so, may I say to Steve and his children how upset and sorry I was to hear of your unfortunate loss. I have asked for an internal investigation as to how and what happened in relation to this matter. Feel free to contact me on 0419 025 407 to personally discuss this matter if you feel that it may assist.

Now, may I set the record straight on a few matters, primarily for the benefit of other forum readers and contributors.

Registration (tag displayed on the dog's collar) and Microchipping is the best and most preferred way to ensure that any lost dog finds it's way home to their owners in the quickest possible way. Sadly microchipping is not widespread, however the new State (QLD) legislation will see this identification method grow. More sadly is that, in the main, most dogs that are collected by our animal management officers have no ID at all. In fact most are presumed unregistered.

Ipswich City Council, like many other councils holds on to dogs for 3 clear business days (not including weekends, public hols etc). This means that it can be 5 to 6 days before the dog is declared as 'unclaimed' and then becomes the property of the council.

Despite popular rumour, council does not destroy all unclaimed dogs. For many years now, Ipswich City Council (ICC) has had a very close working relationship with both the RSPCA and the AWL. Depending on the availability of space at both these shelters, all suitably rehousable dogs are transferred to these welfare agencies. This has dramatically reduced our need to destroy unclaimed dogs. That said, however, there is still the grisly task of destroying some dogs, a task that our officers do not enjoy at all.

ICC has been a vocal and outspoken council in relation to the need for the Qld Govt to introduce statewide laws relating to animal management in order to reduce further the destruction of unwanted dogs and cats and to improve the identification and reuniting of pets to their owners. We have consistently provided feedback on how to improve this legislation for the benefit of all concerned.

Why don't we hold dogs for longer than 3 business days? There are many reasons for this and all are pragmatic and reasonable.

1. Over 80% of collected dogs are collected within 2 days.

2. If an owner is identified then via agreement we may keep a dog for longer than the 3 day period.

3. Rarely are claims for dogs made after the 3 day period (less than 1%)

4. If a longer period was prescribed for the keeping of animals than the cost of housing these dogs which by the main end up being unclaimed would skyrocket requiring extra sustenance costs, larger kennel facilities. This would increase dog rego fees considerably to the point of unafforable.

5. Dogs held longer than 3 days are usually unregistered and the owner has considered the impoundment of the dog as an inconvenience that they could not be bothered with. A disposable commodity.

6. It is considered that people will not pay more than approx 3 days sustenance costs for an impounded dog, therefore holding for 7+ days would be a pointless exercise.

Re livestock holding periods - That is a State Law requirement and is an economic decision. Livestock are generally considered to be an asset of high value and therefore must go through a vigorous procedure where if unclaimed they are auctioned or tendered. This is a different scenario than dogs/cats.

There are some serious accusations made in this forum and out of respect I would suggest that if there is any evidence of such claims I will personally report said behaviour and/or individual responsible.

ICC's animal management team takes it's duties very seriously and the issue of responsible pet ownership is a high priority. We recognise that it is not the fault of the dog, but the owner/s.

We are very proactive in rehousing dogs where possible. We work, as stated above with welfare agancies in this endeavour and we also have our 'Pet of the Week' program where we rehouse a number of pets each week through the local newspaper. This has been successful as we partner with the AWL to have the pets desexed and microchipped before offering to the public.

Very importantly we are currently in discussions with the AWL to increase our partnership......Watch this space for more news.

In closing I stress that I will be looking into the original matter and hope to get some outcomes for Steve and his family. To all forum members, if you want to dramatically improve your chances of having a lost dog returned you should always have the rego tag on the dogs collar and get your dog microchipped.

I look forward to further debate and feedback.

Cr Andrew Antoniolli

Ipswich City Council