Why Not?

[poodlefan]

Well that's too bad isn't it, my dog might get distracted by the good the other handler is tossing up and down, if a toy worked for my dog I would take it in. I have seen many judges use toys to get expression

We're not talking about what the judges do here but what other handlers do.

Someone squeeking a toy behind you in a line up is hardly fair to your dog.

[Pockets]

And someone behind or in front throwing bits of liver in the air is fair ?? Sorry but your not playing

for sheep stations at a show teach your dog to focus on you, it's called training as previously stated isn't it??

I don't use toys for my dogs, I don't use food, but I wouldn't crack it if someone else did

[-Megz-]

And someone behind or in front throwing bits of liver in the air is fair ?? Sorry but your not playing

for sheep stations at a show teach your dog to focus on you, it's called training as previously stated isn't it??

I don't use toys for my dogs, I don't use food, but I wouldn't crack it if someone else did

Hold on a minute - this thread is about a second handler outside the ring, I was adding about inside the ring as it is in our Regulations and added to my argument.

No one has said anything about winning or sheep stations so perhaps you shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about the posters.

A runner outside the ring with a squeek toy or calling the dogs name of the dog in front of me would put at least one of my guys off, I doubt the rest would be phased but that is the training they have.

[Pockets]

I am not jumping at anyone I was replying to a comment I read

I am not talking about a specialty show, I was refering to distraction other dogs in the ring regardless.

[Firestone]

There are many GSD folk who do show at both & the dogs are trained to do both & are a picture to watch

Thats exactly right.

[angelsun]

My GSD didnt need to be double handled to do all that stuff,he did it because it was natural & the right handling .

I have watched many GSD shows where the dogs are so over hyped legs are going in all directions & not displaying any of what the reason behind a big ring is.

They say the big ring is used because there a movement dog & need that size to move.

A correctly put together GSD should cover the ground with ease from the first step & just flow around the ring or what ever the sport it is herding,

It is funny when some of the speciality people show All Breeds & all you can see are crazy GSD going berko as they have no idea how to function without some one calling in the corner.This doesnt show a functional GSD at its best.

There are many GSD folk who do show at both & the dogs are trained to do both & are a picture to watch '

I agree with what you are saying re: legs all over the place, hyper and crazy GSD's and the inability to function without a doubler....have seen that FAR too many times. I agree as well that it's gone over the top when it comes to specialty events and the GSD's are the only ones 'privaleged' to do that sort of thing...however I should add at one of the last specialty events I did in Canada, it was announced prior to the start of the event that NO double handling would be permitted on ANY level, and as the judge announced this (not the steward) the ropes were being taken down for the outside ring....people's jaws dropped and the complaints followed furiously!! I laughed....thought it was a riot and wasn't surprised given who the judge was....that day, we saw how the dogs SHOULD be shown (in my opinion) and the big winners simply couldn't function and perform in that sort of atmosphere.

As for toys being a distraction in the ring....well that's showing....and I have no sympathy for those that get bent out of shape....bottom line..train your dog....I came from the terrier ring where a squeeky mouse was mandatory equipment....knowing this, I never trained my dogs to respond to one...so yes, I had many handlers behind and in front try to distract with it, and get no where. Coming from the very competative AKC handling world where bait is thrown by the kilo in the ring I realized quickly that if I wanted focus on my dog, it was not because there was food..it was a case of training my dog to focus on me, and when it did, it got a bit of bait....there is a big difference in training methods to achieve that and when done, the dogs aren't distracted by food on the floor/ground or being tossed by someone else in the ring.

The same arguement comes from those showing males when a female is in season and being shown...they bitch and whinge and whine about it being 'unfair' to their dog, or 'distracting'.....well until the rules state you can't show a bitch in season....get over it and find a way to be of more interest than the bitch is....I had a male that got one sniff of a bitch and he lost his head..took me a while and wasn't always successful but I managed to find his button that made me more interesting than 'that girl over there'. It all comes down to training. We are all out there to get the judge to look at our dog just a bit more than another....this is a COMPETITION after all....

As for calling a dog by its name....if the judge beleives they will look foolish for not putting up the bazillion best in show winning whatever....calling a dog by its name isn't going to matter much as they have already memorized who's on top in the point score or who had the flashier ad in Dog News.

[Pockets]

Anglesun - Do you compete in the GSD Specialty ring?

[rudie]

Double handling used to be allowed showing Arabian horses at halter. It has now been banned due to a general consensus that the distraction it caused the other animals competing in the class (particularly those who were frightened by it) was too great and turned the class (and the marshalling area) into a dangerous and quite frankly ridiculous spectacle!

Also I think people realised that animals who are over revved and generally unsettled often don’t move correctly.

In my opinion a solid, balanced gait with natural carriage and rhythm is far more complimentary than rushed, tense and distracted craziness!!

Having said that I have nothing against its use in the German Sheppard ring, its obviously something they enjoy and find valuable to their breed shows.

[whippets]

It wouldn't matter with my male whippet. He gets distracted by a dog 3 rings over that is just standing there doing nothing

It's the people who drop their bait in the ring and leave it there that annoy the hell out of me.

[Pockets]

I agree, people dropping bait is annoying.

If someone had a squeaky toy which your dog responded too, wouldnt you think, ill use one of thise next time if it works for my dog?

[fbc]

It wouldn't matter with my male whippet. He gets distracted by a dog 3 rings over that is just standing there doing nothing

It's the people who drop their bait in the ring and leave it there that annoy the hell out of me.

Iagree I dont mind what people use to bait their dogs with but PLEASE pick up your food bait

[-Megz-]

I agree, people dropping bait is annoying.

If someone had a squeaky toy which your dog responded too, wouldnt you think, ill use one of thise next time if it works for my dog?

The person I was referring to was quite adamant because her dogs DO NOT respond well to it. Not all dogs react the same. There was a JRT that was very animated for a Tennis Ball, just the small ones that fit in your pocket, if that dog was still around now I would have a hard time keeping my Stafford's attention. He is intently ball crazy.

[angelsun]

Anglesun - Do you compete in the GSD Specialty ring?

Yes I have competed in the specialty rings in North America quite a bit. I gave it up a few years back when my back began to act up as I simply can't do the marathon running that these specialty judges seem to feel is needed. (which is another bugaboo of mine as if they can't see in one go round how a dog moves, they aren't going to see it after six go rounds!!)

I also don't have the patience for the antics seen at the specialty rings...perhaps I'm getting too old and cranky! I also have never agreed with the condition of some of the dogs often highly rewarded at specialties which included roached toplines, sickle hocks and questionable temperaments.....yes, I am getting too old and cranky!

[angelsun]

It wouldn't matter with my male whippet. He gets distracted by a dog 3 rings over that is just standing there doing nothing

It's the people who drop their bait in the ring and leave it there that annoy the hell out of me.

Iagree I dont mind what people use to bait their dogs with but PLEASE pick up your food bait

I totally agree....there is no reason to turf bait around and leave it there....yes it's harder to find it sometimes in the grass...but when I was showing inside for the most part on MATS and CONCRETE..there is NO reason not to bend over and pick up that slab of meat!!

[Keshwar]

It wouldn't matter with my male whippet. He gets distracted by a dog 3 rings over that is just standing there doing nothing

It's the people who drop their bait in the ring and leave it there that annoy the hell out of me.

Iagree I dont mind what people use to bait their dogs with but PLEASE pick up your food bait

I totally agree....there is no reason to turf bait around and leave it there....yes it's harder to find it sometimes in the grass...but when I was showing inside for the most part on MATS and CONCRETE..there is NO reason not to bend over and pick up that slab of meat!!

Sheesh people can't pick up their dogs sh*t and you want them to pick up the bait they've chucked everywhere as well! :D

[angelsun]

boy you said it there...agree...how silly of me to think such a thing!

[Miss Danni]

Anglesun - Do you compete in the GSD Specialty ring?

Yes I have competed in the specialty rings in North America quite a bit. I gave it up a few years back when my back began to act up as I simply can't do the marathon running that these specialty judges seem to feel is needed. (which is another bugaboo of mine as if they can't see in one go round how a dog moves, they aren't going to see it after six go rounds!!)

Angelsun, GSDs are supposed to have endurance. A dog that looks great after one or 2 laps often falls apart after 6 or 7 laps and even the best handlers cant hide it anymore. If we wanted to do one lap, we'd just do All Breeds shows!

We use double handling mainly to give a PMU to a dog that is getting a bit tired. You have to be sensible as to when to use double handling and when you should let the dog do his thing by himself. I've seen double handling ruin a dog that was working perfectly well by himself.

Pockets is a good double handler, aren't you Pockets? :D

[poodlefan]

MD:

Angelsun, GSDs are supposed to have endurance.

So do an Endurance Test with them. 20km at 10km per hour is a better test of structural stability than a handful of laps around a ring wouldn't you say?

To pass requires obedience, soundness and fitness. Just the ticket I say.

[Heidii]

MD:

Angelsun, GSDs are supposed to have endurance.

So do an Endurance Test with them. 20km at 10km per hour is a better test of structural stability than a handful of laps around a ring wouldn't you say?

To pass requires obedience, soundness and fitness. Just the ticket I say.

Poodlefan, have you ever competed/double handled in a GSD specialty show?

[Miss Danni]

MD:

Angelsun, GSDs are supposed to have endurance.

So do an Endurance Test with them. 20km at 10km per hour is a better test of structural stability than a handful of laps around a ring wouldn't you say?

To pass requires obedience, soundness and fitness. Just the ticket I say.

Slightly different thing Poodlefan and not mutually exclusive. But I dont think that there are too many specialist judges that are watching the yearly ET to decide who gets BOB at the next show. :D