Puppy Stopping Midwalk And Won't Move

[K1TT3N]

We have an 8 month old Alaskan Malamute so as you can imagine he doesn't look much like a puppy, he's a very solid strong boy already! We can be walking along with him, all going well and all of a sudden he'll just come to a hault...will not move even when you pull really hard or call him playfully or anything..nothing works...you can sometimes walk him in another direction, basically any direction other than the one you were originally going but it's getting very frustrating and i'm becoming scared to walk him because the first time it happened I didn't have my phone on me or anything and I got stuck uptown for 45 minutes with him not moving. He's so solid/stubborn when he stops that even my boyfriend can't get him to move so you can only imagine me trying to! lol.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if so how you overcome it? Preferrably without treats.

[JulesP]

I would get the vet to check him over first to make sure that there isn't a physical reason for him to refuse to move.

[persephone]

Yep- vet check first.

is he stopping in teh same place, or after the same amount of time?

What time of the day?

On what surface/s?

In what sort of area/s?

what is his body language?

lying down

rolling over

panting hard

ears back

ears forward

tail wagging

tail down

fidgeting

staying still

[K1TT3N]

It can be any time of day and any where around. We tend to only walk him just before dark so that it's not too hot out for him so it doesn't apear to have anything to do with the hot road surfaces. It is just completely random altho he also always does it when we go to leave from my boyfriends mum's place. He stands still and just plants his feet into the ground. No tell tale signs that he's going to do it, he'll be running along and then BAM he stops. Only once he started to slink off a little before it happened.

What will the vet be able to check if it's behavioural?

[persephone]

Have you put your hand on the surface? if you are not able to stand comfortably on it in bare feet- neither is your pup

How long do you walk him?

Perhaps he just gets tired quickly?

A vet won't really be able to check for behavioural problems- however they CAN rule out joint problems, etc for you

[K1TT3N]

Doesn't seem to have anything to do with being tired either, because he does sometimes walk in another direction just doesn't want to go in whichever direction you want him to go lol. Once you eventually do get him to move in the right direction he picks back up pace again and acts as though nothing happened.

[persephone]

Ok- then may I recommend you get the services of s good trainer - who will come to your place, and see exactly what the behaviour is- then give you some 'tools' to get you back in control

Ask on here in training or general, and there are bound to be recommendations !

[K1TT3N]

Thanks for your help

I was thinking that actually, we've been paying for him to go to dog training each week but he's really only learning basic commands and it appears that we need a few particular issues addressed, i've seen a few websites of people that come and do like a 2-3 hour intense training that apparently corrects behavioural issues so it might be worth a try, i'm sure it's expensive but if we're paying weekly to go to a class that's not helping it's going to be more benficial in the long run money wise also

[Bjelkier]

He's a young male Malamute, he thinks he is the boss and stopping dead like that and making you go the direction he wants is him being the pack leader. Cheeky devil

A behaviourlist is a great idea.

If you ask in the training threads they should be able to give you the name of someone good in your area

[spottychick]

Yes! Tango is doing the same thing. Not in any particular spot but usually when I want to turn around and head back home. He just sits, no real body language, but just pits all his weight against me and will NOT move. I don't really want to engage him in a power struggle LOL so I have started using treats to get him to come toward me voluntarily. Stubborn little monster - it really is a clash of wills in his case.

Why do you want to do it without treats??? Just asking because I want to make sure I'm handling it right and if you know of a reason I shouldn't do it!!

[Aidan]

Sounds like Tango just doesn't want to end his outing ;-) Whereas with the Mal it sounds like something else, maybe he has seen or heard something that has him worried? Fear is not always obvious, hesitation and refusal to move might be the only signs you see and dogs are capable of hearing and seeing things that we don't notice. The fact that he will go in other directions is a clue but I don't know the full story.

There is no reason not to use food treats. Every organism on the entire planet in the history of life on earth has had to work for their food, dogs aren't an exception. The problem is when the food treats are a "bribe", or more specifically, when they are an "antecedent" so that the dog will only do what you want when you have food on offer.

This is easily remedied. One way to do it is to teach your dog to target your hand. This can be done for a food reward which can be put on a schedule of reinforcement once the behaviour is very strong. Very easy to teach with a clicker which bridges the gap between "behaviour" and "consequence".

In the OP's case I would suggest moving in the opposite direction from which you were going that caused your dog to stop, then turn back after 7 or 8 paces. If he hesitates, put your hand out and ask him to "touch" with his nose (PREVIOUSLY TAUGHT at home). Whatever the issue is, particularly if there is any fear, this will get him THINKING rather than responding to his feelings.

It doesn't sound like much but I can't tell you how many stubborn, cranky, fearful, or hysterical dogs (and other species) I have "fixed" with this approach.

[spottychick]

Sounds like Tango just doesn't want to end his outing ;-) Whereas with the Mal it sounds like something else, maybe he has seen or heard something that has him worried? Fear is not always obvious, hesitation and refusal to move might be the only signs you see and dogs are capable of hearing and seeing things that we don't notice. The fact that he will go in other directions is a clue but I don't know the full story.

There is no reason not to use food treats. Every organism on the entire planet in the history of life on earth has had to work for their food, dogs aren't an exception. The problem is when the food treats are a "bribe", or more specifically, when they are an "antecedent" so that the dog will only do what you want when you have food on offer.

This is easily remedied. One way to do it is to teach your dog to target your hand. This can be done for a food reward which can be put on a schedule of reinforcement once the behaviour is very strong. Very easy to teach with a clicker which bridges the gap between "behaviour" and "consequence".

In the OP's case I would suggest moving in the opposite direction from which you were going that caused your dog to stop, then turn back after 7 or 8 paces. If he hesitates, put your hand out and ask him to "touch" with his nose (PREVIOUSLY TAUGHT at home). Whatever the issue is, particularly if there is any fear, this will get him THINKING rather than responding to his feelings.

It doesn't sound like much but I can't tell you how many stubborn, cranky, fearful, or hysterical dogs (and other species) I have "fixed" with this approach.

True re Tango! He's just so thrilled to go for walks - he'll even randomly go over to the lead and "sit" with his front paws "dancing" to ask me to take him out walking!

But I am interested in your suggestion for a similar reason. Tango is quite terrified of water and wont go near the river when we go down there on hot days. Despite both me and Pepper happily frolicking in the water, he digs in and gets all "wild eyed" if you try to lead him in. So I'm interested in this "touch" technique of which you speak!! Is there somewhere I can go to get step by step instructions on how to teach it to him??? I'm thinking of buying a clicker to train him with. (sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread!!!)

[Aidan]

Given that this is probably relevant to the OP I'm sure they won't mind a small "hijack"

Target Training:

Present your fist or two outstretched fingers (you choose, keep it consistent) in front of your dog's nose. Don't thrust your fist into his face or anything like that, just present it a few inches in front of his nose.

If he shows any interest at all - a full touch, a lick, a sniff or even a glance, click and treat. Put your hand away behind your back for a couple of seconds, then repeat the exercise.

The aim is to have him "touch" your hand with his nose. Most dogs will just go to touch, get clicked and treated, then repeat. It's easy. Some dogs (usually those who have been trained to wait for a command) will wait and do nothing. For these dogs, don't leave your hand out there. Wait two seconds, then put your hand behind your back and try again. Be prepared to accept a minimum effort at first, just a glance or an air sniff.

Don't be tempted to move your hand to your dog's nose. Your dog must make the decision to touch your hand with his nose, don't complete the exercise for him. On the other hand, don't present your hand 3' from your dog and expect him to get the idea to get off his butt and touch your hand. Have it just a few inches in front of his nose so his options are limited.

The clicker is useful because it allows you to capture the moment that the nose touches the hand. It also allows you to weed out licks, grabs, or arm-touches if they come up.

Once your dog is touching your fist or fingers (whichever you have chosen) with his nose reliably, build it up nice and strong. Then present your fist a little further away, make him actually move to touch it.

Get him to follow you from one place to the next using your target. It's very useful for agility, obedience, conformation stacking, getting onto the scales at the vet's (they do this with Rhinos and all sorts of animals at the zoos). I've used it to get dog's to use stairs, to go through tunnels, to approach people that they are afraid of, to walk across wobbly bridges, to get horses into floats, to get cats to stay off the keyboard and sit somewhere else...

A verbal cue isn't necessary, but some people like to add one. Presenting your fist or fingers is enough of a cue for most applications.

[spottychick]

Brilliant Aiden. Thankyou so much for taking the time to write that. Will start him with ASAP

[K1TT3N]

Thanks for the Touch Technique, will definately try that.

We take him on different paths everyday so it doesn't seem to be in particular spots or anything. I think it could be the leader of the pack thing happening that Wolfsong mentioned.

There's no particular reason for not using treats, just didn't want him to become dependent on them in order to behave lol.

[Tassie]

:D Aidan. I really think Touch is such a useful thing to teach pups (and dogs). They usually pick it up pretty quickly, so that pups and handler feel very pleased with themselves. And since people can get success with it, they'll often do lots of it, so it becomes a very strong behaviour. I had a lovely story from one of my puppy class members, who had obviously been doing lots of touch. When her pup escaped through a carelessly opened door one day, pup's recall wasn't strong enough to be effective. The handler had the wit to hold out her hand and give a verbal cue "Touch" and pup turned and came hurtling back to nose target the hand. Good puppy, good handler!

Having got the touch to hand, it's quite nice to transfer it to other targets - great for all sorts of things.

Just one little thing to add. Don't know about you, Aidan, but I like to get people to hold their target hand still, so that it's the target that's getting behaviour. Sometimew people will want to move their hand, so then the cue gets a bit muddy - is it the target or the motion? JMHO

And to the OP - your story brought to mind the first dog I had as an adult - a Kelpie/BC bitch, who when she was younger, would put the brakes on and refuse to go any further in a direction away from home. Once we turned to go back towards home, she was fine. At her age, I just went with it. As she grew up, she was happy to walk for kilometres - so I guess she knew what she was doing.