Fear Transmission

[Lhok]

Hmm so once again I have a question and not sure exactly where it should go on this forum

I have a 9year old lab kelpie cross and she is absolutely frightened of Thunderstorms (not something I can train out of her the training techniques used by the trainer and vet reccomended behaviourist made her worse) and now I am looking at getting another dog maybe an Akita or Pyrenean Mountain dog. However I am worried that her fear of thunderstorms will affect the new pup and I really don't want this to happen. (To many memories of chasing down my current dog aptly named Mischief and stress of all the accidents I thought could befall her before I could get home to her.)

Any thoughts?

--Lhok

[corvus]

I think that's a legitimate concern. When my pup was around with my thunder-phobic older dog I causally isolated him from her during storms. I don't think he was ever going to care much, anyway. My latest pup is the type that might come to care, so I've been doing a lot of distracting him during thunderstorms. With games and training. I don't want to ignore him, but nor do I want to teach him that storms are something unusual or special in any way. So we do fun stuff during storms and he doesn't pay much attention to the noise.

[Kelly_Louise]

stress of all the accidents I thought could befall her before I could get home to her.

I know this very well... and can sympathise. I now watch the weather channel like a hawk and try to be prepared all the time, but that's impossible...

I hope you find an answer so that you don't need to do this x 2

Edited February 9, 2010 by Kelly_Louise

[newfsie]

As I always seem to run opposite ..... Our adult newf is very worried about thunderstorms. We just ignore her. Our newf pup of six months has no issues with thunderstorms and we have had lots of them lately. There was just one very loud close by thunderclap that made her come inside, but otherwise she just ignores it like we do. We seem to get dogs that hate it and does that don't care and they are all treated the same. Some must be more sensitive.

[raineth]

I agree that there is a chance that she could make the next pup frightened - but there is also a chance the new pup won't be at all affected.

I am really surprised to hear that what behaviourists and trainers recommended have made things worse. Would you mind briefly outlining the method?

I am just very interested as I have been very busy curing a few of my dog's fear lately.

thanks

[Lhok]

They tried with submersive techniques i.e background noise from the cd and all it did was make her run around the house drooling everywhere and mouthing things, that was on the lowest noise level. They tried to distract her with games and toys but they couldn't get a response from her again she just ran around the house and drooled everywhere and now she is also frightened of chew toys and tug toys.

She seems to get into this zombie state that only I seem (saying this only because other people have tried and to no avail) to be able to break up and get her attention long enough to make her stay on her bed but that's it. My vet said that we should drug her during the storm we tried that I think it only stressed her more due to her fear smell.

I am very worried that this will transfer onto any new pup I am looking at getting as it seems (to me anyway) an extreme fear of storms.

Thanks for the replies so far.

--Lhok

[Kavik]

The fear of thunderstorms will not necessarily transfer to the next dog. Zoe is scared of thunderstorms and fireworks, as was my previous dog Belle. But Diesel and Kaos are not scared of storms or fireworks, and they are the younger ones. I think temperament plays a part too in noise sensitivity.

[Odin-Genie]

I have a dog that reacts badly to thunder. He doesn't try to hide under the table. Instead, he wants to run out and bark at the sky. I usually manage it with classical music and a few drops of Thunderpetics. However, my other dog who has been been with my older dog since she was a puppy, doesn't react to thunder at all. She usually just looks bored.

I read somewhere that dogs that react badly to thunder usually have more sensitive ears. Some dogs just can't stand the sound of thunder and their reaction can be managed but not cured. Other dogs would not react at all. I would be keen to know if anyone has actually stopped a thunder-phobic dog from reacting to thunder completely.

[Odin-Genie]

The fear of thunderstorms will not necessarily transfer to the next dog. Zoe is scared of thunderstorms and fireworks, as was my previous dog Belle. But Diesel and Kaos are not scared of storms or fireworks, and they are the younger ones. I think temperament plays a part too in noise sensitivity.

Hey, that's an interesting point. How would temperament affect noise sensitivity? Would it have anything to do with what the dog was bred for, ie hunting dogs need to have sharper hearing so they are likely to be more sound sensitive?

You've seen Odin. He's such a happy dog most of the times. But he reacts really badly to thunder. I have to keep checking the weather forecast all the time to ensure he's ok during thunder. How did you manage your thunder-phobic dogs?

Edited February 10, 2010 by Odin-Genie

[dee lee]

I read somewhere that dogs that react badly to thunder usually have more sensitive ears. Some dogs just can't stand the sound of thunder and their reaction can be managed but not cured. Other dogs would not react at all. I would be keen to know if anyone has actually stopped a thunder-phobic dog from reacting to thunder completely.

Thats really interesting- Honey reacts to storms and it manifests by her high pitched whining and being hyper (she simultaneously wants to sit in my lap and play ).

She behaves like she is sensitive to the sound, not afraid. I usually ignore her, playing games just excites her more.

[Aziah]

I've witnessed the opposite - I placed an adult into a a home with a Lab who was scared stupid of storms.

Since her friends arrival he's showed her how easy it is to be calm, sit in your crate and relax

[Kavik]

Zoe is a more sensitive dog in general - bit skittish, never liked loud noises, loved to hide under the bed. She prefers to be under the coffee table during storms and fireworks. She tends to bark if outside or in her crate, but not under the table. Belle tended to bark and rush at storms and fireworks. It was harder to manage her as she was the family dog and with 9 people in the house it was hard to get people to be consistent. She liked to be on top of tables/beds though in general.

I think dogs with nervous/skittish/highly strung personalities and poor nerves are likely to react badly to thunderstorms and fireworks.

[Kelly_Louise]

Instead, he wants to run out and bark at the sky.

Yep, that's pretty much what we go through here too.

I find if I can get to Sasha before she gets over excited (whether that means bringing her inside or into the garage) she will remain fairly calm, sometimes even go to sleep (although if the thunder explodes loudly she may raise her head ).

If I'm too late, and the crazy dog has kicked in, it will take a good 15 minutes or so to calm her down, get her to stop pacing and relax.

Not sure if anyone else has tried it, but giving them a massage to distract them is VERY useful!!! Can settle them very quickly

[Odin-Genie]

Instead, he wants to run out and bark at the sky.

Yep, that's pretty much what we go through here too.

I find if I can get to Sasha before she gets over excited (whether that means bringing her inside or into the garage) she will remain fairly calm, sometimes even go to sleep (although if the thunder explodes loudly she may raise her head ).

If I'm too late, and the crazy dog has kicked in, it will take a good 15 minutes or so to calm her down, get her to stop pacing and relax.

Not sure if anyone else has tried it, but giving them a massage to distract them is VERY useful!!! Can settle them very quickly

Same here. If I can give Odin a few drops of Thunderpetics 15 minutes before the storm hits and play classical music, he doesn't react. But if I fail to do that, then it takes a while to calm him. He does relax if I give him a massage, but I try not do that in case it reinforces his fear of thunder. What works really well is a raw bone. If I give him a bone, no amount of thunder can budge him

[raineth]

They tried with submersive techniques i.e background noise from the cd and all it did was make her run around the house drooling everywhere and mouthing things, that was on the lowest noise level. They tried to distract her with games and toys but they couldn't get a response from her again she just ran around the house and drooled everywhere and now she is also frightened of chew toys and tug toys.

She seems to get into this zombie state that only I seem (saying this only because other people have tried and to no avail) to be able to break up and get her attention long enough to make her stay on her bed but that's it. My vet said that we should drug her during the storm we tried that I think it only stressed her more due to her fear smell.

I am very worried that this will transfer onto any new pup I am looking at getting as it seems (to me anyway) an extreme fear of storms.

Thanks for the replies so far.

--Lhok

The poor dear, she sounds so so frightened.

Now I don't know the specifics of thunderstorm phobia - if it truly is painful to her ears in some way then you will be limited to how much success you can achieve.

I use systematic desensitisation. And if you are willing I would be more than happy to take you through it. I am not a trainer or anything but I am a psychology student and used this knowledge, incorporated it with the clicker and have had huge success with it. my dog who I adopted a month ago has 3 strong fears: cameras, fly spray, and people laying next to him. I have cured the camera one, and am onto the people laying next to him fear.

If you want send me a pm.

It would be so nice for her to not have this problem any more.

[gspx3]

This shouldn't affect any othr pups (unless they have the same temperament). My old girl was terrified of thunder and fireworks (however I could shoot a shotgun right over her head without any worries) but this did not transfer to the two I have now who were both raised as puppies (7 years apart) with the old girl in the house.

She had a nervous disposition and I think this was what caused it. The best news is as they get older and more deaf they have less problems with these noises.