RallyValley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I liked how she wuld have had a hailstone lab in her kennel to improve her lines because of thier great coats, even though they are non standard. Didn't you find it interesting when she was talking about the lab outcrosses during WWII. poodle fan I just read Adavanced Labrador Breeding by Mary Roslin Williams which would be a great read if you can get your hands on it. It has therioes about how novice breeders get stuck and how mediocre breeders are made and what is needed to become a great breeder. (Dislaimer: I am planning in breeding one day down the line, I am just researching now so I don't get wrong information/ideas when the time comes) I loved the way in that books she noted that as an English breeder, she always had the option of exporting her second string dogs to breeders in other countries.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 This course is put out at under cost price and covers everything you need to know.It includes a text book.It covers the questions you wont know to ask yet and you get access to a lot of resources such as contracts and forms to help keep records and loads of research tools to teach you how to go about it all and lots of support along the way. http://www.mdba.net.au/product_info.php?cP...;products_id=48 Julie Can I just echo the merits of the MDBA course - I have been breeding since '91 and even after all that time there were new things I learned in the course, other things confirmed my experience and others that I guess for me clarified my focus for breeding and let me feel more confident as a breeder. Regarding breeding in general - find a breed you are passionate about - one you really think will fit into your life and family. Then read the standard - and read it again and again. Personally if I have never had the breed before I would go to some speciality shows - in NSW they are all happening late March/April/May at Erskine Park - where else will you see a reasonable number of the same breed in one place. To me speciality shows are for 2 things, from a breeders perspective - 1 - getting or keeping my eye in and 2 looking for future stud dogs. Who wins or looses at speciality show is generally a political process so I pay little specific attention to the winners. Without a pup in your yard speak to breeders - when you havent got a pup yet then you are no threat to anyone - and its a good chance to ask open questions. Personally I prefer bitches as Sandgrubber says with good fences they are not a hassle. But more expense regarding Prefix, membership and all the crap that goes with getting set up. Good luck I hope you enjoy whatever breed you chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 PF: Look at Ebay and Dogwise (they're based in the US) I have picked up some damn good breeding books and other "text" stuff on there at good prices. I will have to check what I have at home. One I have is called "breeding better dogs". its a little book, but gets you to look at the good/bad points on your dog and the bitch and then to draw a stick figure representative of the dog. Very basic, but it is an easy read to get you started thinking. It also goes into the basics of phenotype and genotype breedings, and starts you off researching cousins, aunts, uncles and to research what they are/were like and any progeny they have thrown. I have much more detailed texts that you have to wade through as well. Some picked up from Dogwise (new book store specialising in dog books) that cover genetics etc. Others I have found interesting titles and chapters on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I liked how she wuld have had a hailstone lab in her kennel to improve her lines because of thier great coats, even though they are non standard. Didn't you find it interesting when she was talking about the lab outcrosses during WWII. poodle fan I just read Adavanced Labrador Breeding by Mary Roslin Williams which would be a great read if you can get your hands on it. It has therioes about how novice breeders get stuck and how mediocre breeders are made and what is needed to become a great breeder. (Dislaimer: I am planning in breeding one day down the line, I am just researching now so I don't get wrong information/ideas when the time comes) I loved the way in that books she noted that as an English breeder, she always had the option of exporting her second string dogs to breeders in other countries.. mmm yes I have that book too - interesting perspective cant say I agree with some of it but it honest and straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Born to Win Breed to Succeed is a good book too, if you can wade through the irrelevant American-ism's Ooh I think there's one for sale on the classies! ETA: It's the old version. I think I'll hold out for the 2009 revised edition. Check out Amazon.com for the new edition. I purchased one just before Christmas and it cost (including postage and x-rate) $40AUD. AND it took only 5 days to get here from the USA. Editing to add: Another one for the more advanced dog person is Rick Beauchamp's "Solving the Mysteries of Breed Type". VERY interesting reading! :thumbups: Edited February 10, 2010 by ellz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Editing to add: Another one for the more advanced dog person is Rick Beauchamp's "Solving the Mysteries of Breed Type". VERY interesting reading! :thumbups: I doubt I am an advanced dog person but I have read this one and found it very helpful. I have been using his book as a guideline to help me research 'type' in my breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Born to Win Breed to Succeed is a good book too, if you can wade through the irrelevant American-ism's Ooh I think there's one for sale on the classies! ETA: It's the old version. I think I'll hold out for the 2009 revised edition. Check out Amazon.com for the new edition. I purchased one just before Christmas and it cost (including postage and x-rate) $40AUD. AND it took only 5 days to get here from the USA. Thanks Ellz! MV: Look at Ebay and Dogwise (they're based in the US) I will thanks MV - there's a well worn path to Dogwise from my computer Edited February 10, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Born to Win Breed to Succeed is a good book too, if you can wade through the irrelevant American-ism's Ooh I think there's one for sale on the classies! ETA: It's the old version. I think I'll hold out for the 2009 revised edition. Check out Amazon.com for the new edition. I purchased one just before Christmas and it cost (including postage and x-rate) $40AUD. AND it took only 5 days to get here from the USA. Thanks Ellz! Check out www.dogwise.com They can be cheaper than Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Born to Win Breed to Succeed is a good book too, if you can wade through the irrelevant American-ism's Ooh I think there's one for sale on the classies! ETA: It's the old version. I think I'll hold out for the 2009 revised edition. Check out Amazon.com for the new edition. I purchased one just before Christmas and it cost (including postage and x-rate) $40AUD. AND it took only 5 days to get here from the USA. Thanks Ellz! Check out www.dogwise.com They can be cheaper than Amazon. I find the Book Depository the cheapest of all due to free shipping. They dont' have it in stock right now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 abe books is very good too. You can often find used books a great deal cheaper (if you don't mind reading used books ) http://www.abebooks.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvmy4 Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 I'd also like to add that breeding and exhibiting dogs isn't necessarily a "part time" thing. You can't just do it when the children are in school. To maintain a show dog in fit, healthy condition and to give proper care to a brood bitch and her litter aren't things that will happen on a timetable. You need to be able to be flexible and you will find that you can't just schedule things to happen during the times that the children are in school.Dogs just don't read timetables or rule books. I understand that while my kids are home I do playgroup 3 times a week. What I mean Is I will have more time once their in school. Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Currently sitting here at 10.30 on a Saturday night watching a maiden bitch pace around in the first thros of labour. Guess I wont be getting much sleep tonight. this is one of the usual things to expect if you decide to get into breeding. When I was first thinking of getting a litter out of my first bitch (GSD) way back in the early 80's, a breeder friend gave me a book to read - she said if i was still keen after reading this then to go for it. Title : The mating and whelping of Dogs Cant remember the name of the author, but it was a very old book that related to personal statistics and stories that the author had collected from many breeders. I think it was an english author. Gave lots of stories of things that could go wrong and certainly didn't sugarcoat the experience. I was 21yo and really glad I read it as it did prepare me for the experience. Have lent the book to many people over the years who had been thinking of breeding and along the way I have lost track of who borrowed it - if anyone here knows the author could you please let me know as I would love to chase up a copy for my library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I started with a male and found this to suit me. I got my bitch when my male was almost 3 years old, and the bitch is now almost 3 herself, with a 3 week old litter. So I had nearly 5 years showing and learning about my breed, grooming, presentation, bloodlines, faults, serious issues, networking etc before I bred my first litter and I'm glad I did. Next time around, I want to breed my bitch at 18 months rather than 2 and a half years, and I'm not sure what age is recommended in Staffords but if it's the same (18 months) then IMO, it's not a very long time to learn the ropes of the breed and of showing etc. Unless you are a super fast learner or have an excellent mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Book of the bitch is a good one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Here are a few I have: "Dog Breeding For Professionals" Dr. Herbert Richards. 1978. TFH Publications Inc. ISBN 0-87666-659-4 "Practical Dog Breeding and Genetics" Eleanor Frankling. 5th Edit. 1975. Anchor Press. ISBN 0-09-120460-7 "Dog Breeding, The Theory & The Practice". Frank Jackson. 2003. The Crowood Press. ISBN: 1-86126-328-7 "The Joy of Breeding Your Own Show Dog". Ann Seranne & Julie Gasgow. 1st Edit. 1980 Howell Book House. ISBN: 0-87605-413-0 "The Whelping and Rearing of Puppies: A complete and Practical Guide". Muriel P Lee. TFH Publications. ISBN: 0-7938-0497-3 "All About Mating, Whelping and Weaning". David Cavill. 1981. Pelham Books. ISBN: 0 7207 1323 4 "Breeding Better Dogs" Carmelo L Battaglia. PHD. 5th Edit. 1986 ISBN: 0-9324419-06-02 Other: "Genetics: An Introduction for Dog Breeders" Jackie Isabell. 2002. ISBN: 1-57779-041-3 "Canine Hip Dysplacia and other Orthopedic Problems" Fred L Lanting. 1981. ISBN: 0-931866-06-5 "The Dog Owners Manual on Selecting, Raising and Breeding Dogs" Karen Hedberg. 1989 The watermark Press. ISBN: 0-949284-14-9 ( I have the first edit. There is a newer edition) "An Eye for a Dog: Illustrated Guide to Judging Purebred Dogs". Robert W Cole. 2004. Dogwise Publishing. ISBN: 1-929242-14-X Some of those books as you can see are a little old. I think though, they still offer some good information to the newer books out there. I have also included some other books that are a good read for when you are looking at dogs and understanding conformation, structure and structural problems such as HD, OCD and ED. "An Eye for a Dog" is about structure, movement etc and a good reference book on this. It is not breed specific, but reading the other breed structures is also a good understanding of the lingo used around the show ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Some of those old books are very good. They take you back to the basics. I read and read when it comes to whelping but during those crappy long nights before the bitch whelps, I always go back and read my Eleanor Frankling book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 SBT: I think for newbies especially. They NEED to start at the basics. The stupid open book exam the ANKC makes newbies do for their prefix is token effort joke. I agree it is probably better than nothing at all. But a lot more reading and studying needs to be done before you consider mating to individuals (presume here all the other general is the dog suitable stuff has been addressed). New breeders need to know a very good understanding of to expect and when to expect it once a mating has taken place. Of course, there is no substitute for experience and the backing of a mentor and long time breeder as well. But at some point, the newbie breeder needs to take the initiative and learn and think all possible sides for themselves. Something I have seen over the years here on DOL. New breeders who have not done their research and come on here and go HELP in a mad panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoffpig Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Without meaning to put the wind up, it might also behove to view the Rescue and Urgent Rescue threads. A good many staffords end up on death row and that might also weigh on considerations, hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Its also important to work through the things which are not easily found in books or on the net. Most books assume you are coming at the subject with a basic philosophy or ethical start point and your goal is already clearly defined. You can work through the mechanics and the reproduction stuff by reading books, the net or via a mentor or simply asking and talking but in my opinion there are many things which you need to take into account before you get anywhere near the dogs. We get some people who have all manner of grand ideas and they tell us about what they intend to do before we give them membership sometimes we think they are not ready to become MDBA members so we advise them to do our intro course first and then if they still want to breed dogs as an MDBA member to re apply. It would be difficult for people to get through our first unit on ethics let alone the rest of the course and not be challenged by what it teaches them. Some come back and reapply but some decide not to breed dogs as its not what they thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 We get some people who have all manner of grand ideas and they tell us about what they intend to do before we give them membership sometimes we think they are not ready to become MDBA members so we advise them to do our intro course first and then if they still want to breed dogs as an MDBA member to re apply. It would be difficult for people to get through our first unit on ethics let alone the rest of the course and not be challenged by what it teaches them. Some come back and reapply but some decide not to breed dogs as its not what they thought it was. I think that's great! If it puts some people off so to speak, well that's better than having them get into breeding for the wrong reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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