Dogs For Protection

[Longcoat]

Well Nekhbet there are a lot of fools out there who have been protected by their UNTRAINED dogs.

There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog

CRAP!

I am sorry Crisovar, I don't see it that way and more to the point, people here are talking about dogs barking and acting scary frightening away unsavory characters which many dogs will do successfully I agree, but that is not stepping up and defending for real where the dog will take someone down which is a big difference. Nobody has actually given us an example of their dog going for the bite, only a perception that it would???. The only untrained dogs that I have ever known to attack in defence for real and maintain their nerve when pressured with a history of taking down offenders were guard dogs that would bite anyone other than the hand that feeds them, totally aggressive out of control and completely unsuitable for a family pet.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Longcoat

[OSoSwift]

Good Girl Molly.

Warms your heart doesn't it

I had absolute faith that my Dobe (RIP) would have stood and defended. She was not unsocial or inept.

She was a friendly, loving, well trained companion who showed more than one person the door.

Infact she disliked one bloke at a friends house so much that even when she was put outside as she was letting out a low growl, that he went home because "that dog" was sitting on the other side of the glass door staring him out!

Nice enough bloke, but had been taking drugs the previous night and she didn't like people who were drunks or under the influence of any other banned substances.

I would not ever expect my Whippets do guard in any form, but hey who knows maybe one day they may step up to the plate.

[Kavik]

I also dissagree that a dog you can rely on to protect is going to be a serious handful for an experienced security handler only.

Very strong nerves are quite possible in a family pet,along with great determination.

O.K,So we can't count on them carrying through if an attacker is willing to keep coming,without P.P training.Maybe not,(maybe yes too) but We don't have to worry they will bite just because they have been trained to be aggressive either.They have the most important quality.The willingness to defend.

The dogs mentioned here are doing their jobs beautifully,not many are uncontrollable menaces.

If they don't go as far as a profesional trainer would like,at least they have been able able to be there when needed.These dogs all did what was required.

That to me is a lot more useful than a trained P.P dog who has to be locked away for the safety of every one.Thats not the type of companion most responsible dog owners want.

Reliability for any task is going to be stonger if that is specificaly what the line is bred for.Very few pure breeds are bred specificaly and solely for family suitable protection in Australia at least.If those that are are going to be such a handful,they are no good to me or the average family.

If the dogs professional P.P trainers are working with are generaly unsafe in companion situations,and its claimed repeatedly they are the only ones you can rely on,what does the ordinary person do if thats important to them?

We are proud of what our dogs have done.What is unlikely to be tested doesn't matter.If I

ever expect to need more than that,its time for a gun!

Keep the stories coming folks,they are great!

A personal protection dog that had to be locked away would not be very useful. A good personal protection dog is also social (and I think a good security dog should be too - you would have to be able to talk to people without the dog wanting to bite everyone).

[Aidan]

If the dogs professional P.P trainers are working with are generaly unsafe in companion situations,and its claimed repeatedly they are the only ones you can rely on,what does the ordinary person do if thats important to them?

I don't agree with the premise that dogs from working lines are "generally unsafe in companion situations".

Also, I think there is a bit of confusion in this thread. Obviously, lots of family pets will "step up" to a point and have proven to do so. I would not suggest it advisable that their owners would then be encouraged to go into potentially dangerous or risky situations relying upon those same dogs (as a security guard on patrol may do), even if they have shown good nerve and willingness to protect in other situations.

e.g my Golden helped me dispatch two intruders who were attempting to break into my house during a time when there was a spate of home invasions in the area in which we lived at the time. Although he has "proven" himself in some capacity, I do not take him with me so that I can confront intruders when the alarm at work goes off, thinking that he will protect me.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Aidan

[Kavik]

If the dogs professional P.P trainers are working with are generaly unsafe in companion situations,and its claimed repeatedly they are the only ones you can rely on,what does the ordinary person do if thats important to them?

I don't agree with the premise that dogs from working lines are "generally unsafe in companion situations".

Also, I think there is a bit of confusion in this thread. Obviously, lots of family pets will "step up" to a point and have proven to do so. I would not suggest it advisable that their owners would then be encouraged to go into potentially dangerous or risky situations relying upon those same dogs (as a security guard on patrol may do), even if they have shown good nerve and willingness to protect in other situations.

e.g my Golden helped me dispatch two intruders who were attempting to break into my house during a time when there was a spate of home invasions in the area in which we lived at the time. Although he has "proven" himself in some capacity, I do not take him with me so that I can confront intruders when the alarm at work goes off, thinking that he will protect me.

[Jed]

Well Nekhbet there are a lot of fools out there who have been protected by their UNTRAINED dogs.

There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog

CRAP!

I am sorry Crisovar, I don't see it that way and more to the point, people here are talking about dogs barking and acting scary frightening away unsavory characters which many dogs will do successfully I agree, but that is not stepping up and defending for real where the dog will take someone down which is a big difference. Nobody has actually given us an example of their dog going for the bite, only a perception that it would???. The only untrained dogs that I have ever known to attack in defence for real and maintain their nerve when pressured with a history of taking down offenders were guard dogs that would bite anyone other than the hand that feeds them, totally aggressive out of control and completely unsuitable for a family pet.

Wrong sort of dogs.

OK. All of my boxers over the years, have stepped up to the plate when they were asked, and they have done whatever was necessary to negate the threat.

Not all were asked.

3 have stepped up and "defended for real" which included doing whatever was required.

One went outside and attacked a (serious, not casual) prowler - ran outside, ran around the house, bit, and continued to bite with the prowler running, he fell over the fence because the dog was biting him, the boxer jumped it, and bit him and snarled, he got up, and ran into the bush, with the dog running with him, biting and snarling. I have no proof that the dog actually bit him, but there was blood on the ground in the morning, and he was screaming,so I guess the dog bit him, and he didn't simply break a finger nail?

Man appeared in the hallway of the house one afternoon, I wandered out of my bedroom - the dog followed - dog pushed past me, advanced on the man, growling and snarling - he backed up - she backed him against the wall of the kitchen and held him there. I discovered it was someone we knew vaguely - told the dog it was ok, dog backed off. He was gonna get bitten if I hadn't recognized him.

Neighbour was visiting at night, stealing horse feed. Dog went out and chased him. Didn't bite, but would have if he had stopped or challenged her. She roared up to him, and he got a terrible fright, he'd only seen her in "friend" mode.

People were doing bad things at the front of my property in the middle of the night. I went down, with the gun, and the dog, holding the collar. They came into view, I shouted "oi, whaddiadoing?" and the dog pulled away, and rushed them, one jumped onto the flat top tonner, shouting "watch out, it's one of them pitbulls" -- the dog jumped up behind him, he raised his arm at her, still holding the chainsaw, and she grabbed him by the wrist. By that time I'd got closer, raised the gun, told the dog to come. We had a little discussion and they left. It wasn't the gun which made them docile, it was the dog. And I would never have gone there without the dog.

They have all done what Molly did. To the degree necessary

My teenager has the courage and nerve to stand her ground. I am not sure about her mother, maybe - and my baby girl - absolutely. I can tell from the way she pervs out the window at night that she is muttering "oh send me a prowler, do". Nerve and courage.

All of the dogs above, and some not mentioned were trustworthy with everyone, including kids.

That's as much as I want for "protection". I don't much care what a trainer would expect. Mine did what I would expect, which is negate the threat, and use as much force as necessary to do that. And I don't expect them to use more force than required. If my teenager with her feet on the gate had jumped the gate and bitten someone, that would have been totally unsatisfactory. Not what was wanted. I need them to use SUFFICIENT force. I don't need them to be savage, aggressive out of control mongrels, biting anyone and everyone. I don't want, or expect them to bite anyone in the normal course of events. I expect them to use their intelligence to work out what they should be doing.

Some of you must think the rest of us have no knowledge or experience with dogs to make some of the remarks you do. None of you know much about boxers, or some of the other guard breeds, and I don't know that you could pick a dog which would guard. It's not ferocity or aggression, it is courage and intelligence which makes this type of dog good for the job. And the right genes.

Nekhbet

Unfortunately I have not seen one that I would trust with my property thus far I'd be interested in knowing your bloodlines. I have some old videos of a boxer doing schutzhund it's very impressive and a pity some peopole do not take the breed more seriously.

Boxers haven't changed, they could still do schutzhund, if someone could be bothered training them, and I think they do it in Europe, particularly Germany. People here like them for their nice natures and affability, and everyone who's had a couple knows they are protective, but no one makes a big deal out of it.

And some of the ones you have seen you probably could trust with your property, except they have never seen any need to SHOW you what they can do, so you didn't recognize them. If you saw my teenager out somewhere, you'd think what a lovely friendly dog she is, how waggy and smiley. No good for guard. If you were climbing in the window at midnight, you'd see the other side of her. The men in my paddock thought the same thing. They patted her in the morning, and she was so friendly and waggy ----- but they were doing what they should have been. They weren't allowed into the garden ,so she stopped them.

They really are a quiet achiever. The confidence and lack of fear that makes them jump all over everyone with friendship is the same confidence and lack of fear that allows them to step up to the plate. In my experience, they will do just as much as needed. And my lines are quite "common" - and well known. Mostly English. And a yank.

Luckily there are few nasty ones. And that's how it should be, a nasty one is very nasty indeed.

Before I got married, I had a boxer and a lot of friends. Friends would often arrive at home, and if I wasn't there, hang around until I turned up. They might also turn up with a couple of horses, and their swag. The boxer had them all graded. If they had stayed before, she helped them unload the horses, showed them the spare room, and where the beer was, and I'd arrive to find half drunk friends curled up on the couch with the dog (and the beer gone) If they had visited before, but not stayed, they were allowed on the property, and into the lounge, but not allowed into the bedrooms, or to the beer. And I'd find them sitting on the couch, with the dog sitting in front of them. If they had been on the property, but not inside, she wouldn't allow them inside.

Door to door sellers, religiious persons blah blah didn't even get in the gate!!

Don't think the security guards were much good at picking dogs, but I suppose they would look scary in most situations, but I think most of them would have legged it if it got up close and personal.

Aidan

e.g my Golden helped me dispatch two intruders who were attempting to break into my house during a time when there was a spate of home invasions in the area in which we lived at the time. Although he has "proven" himself in some capacity, I do not take him with me so that I can confront intruders when the alarm at work goes off, thinking that he will protect me.

No I wouldn't expect my dogs to do security work - and I certainly wouldn't expect it without training - but we are talking about protective pets here. Although having seen the security dogs I mentioned earlier, I think I would choose one of mine in preference.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Jed

[Crisovar]

Well Nekhbet there are a lot of fools out there who have been protected by their UNTRAINED dogs.

There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog

CRAP!

I am sorry Crisovar, I don't see it that way and more to the point, people here are talking about dogs barking and acting scary frightening away unsavory characters which many dogs will do successfully I agree, but that is not stepping up and defending for real where the dog will take someone down which is a big difference. Nobody has actually given us an example of their dog going for the bite, only a perception that it would???. The only untrained dogs that I have ever known to attack in defence for real and maintain their nerve when pressured with a history of taking down offenders were guard dogs that would bite anyone other than the hand that feeds them, totally aggressive out of control and completely unsuitable for a family pet.

My choices of dog over the years have included breeds that will step up when the need arises, and yes they have had cause to and have done the job.

You wont hear a lot about dogs biting and stopping a threat when they need to because it is frowned upon, and assumptions will be made as to the dogs character, just like you did, but yes mine did.

Would I have a dog that did the same again, yes in a heartbeat. A well bred confident Boxer will be able to do it, A Dobe will do it and yes a sound minded GSD will do it. Nothing fearful or unsociable about them, simply of sound mind and capable of doing their job.

If barking causes the threat to vanish for many well so be it and good stuff but I have seen dogs in action that have had to do more and have been more than capable.

[Whipitgood]

I would not ever expect my Whippets do guard in any form, but hey who knows maybe one day they may step up to the plate.

On a lighter note because, like i said earlier, this feel good thread seems to have diverted - but i agree Rommiandlewis - my Whippets would welcome a burglur/attacker with open arms and a face lick and see if they had treats in their pockets - before they would protect me!! Good job my husband is a big!!

[Jed]

I think the cavs could be good to have if there was as burglary - they'd be underfoot, helping, and the burglars would probably fall over them, or the cavs would jump in the car, and there wouldn't be room for the loot!! They're all a bit different, my cuz has a boy I bred, and it is duty to watch at night while she sleeps, and he barks if he hears anything, he escorts her to the door if the bell rings, and he does his loud serious bark, so people think he is B I G.Before he arrived, her large pot plants - all expensive big ones in ceramic pots - used to be stolen, probably to sell at the markets. Since he arrived, no one has touched them.

Mostly, all the majority of us need is an alert woofer.

It's nice to know that our alert woofer will "guard" without being an aggressive nuisance, or a dangerous dog.

Here's my smiley teenager

Edited February 9, 2010 by Jed

[RL1]

There is a difference between a dog that barks and a dog that will actually step up and physically protect you from a stranger

A dog savvy person can back down a dog that is simply untrained and showing some protection. If you want to rely on an untrained dog to fully protect you though you're fooling yourself

I am afraid I agree with Nekhbet's comment. There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog. Very few untrained family pets will step up and defend for real. Sure they bark and lunge and people back away and have provided a basic level of protection, but even a hard nerved guardian breed has to be trained to attack and bite. The more bites the dog experiences, the more wins the dog achieves, the more confidence the dog has to step up to the challenge which is how a protection dog is trained. There are plenty of dog savvy criminals who can unload an untrained dog and part of protection training is to counteract what the dog savvy criminals may do to the dog. IMHO, an untrained dog is a deterrent at a similar level as locks on a door, anything more serious required of the family pet will generally fail.

Depends who you talk to. Everyone has a different opinion.

I had a known RAAf trainer, with 30 yrs experience, come to my house to have a look at my problem dog ( Rottweiler ) and after a 20 min evaluation told me the dog was totally unsuitable for domestic

and this is the dog you would want at your side to walk through the streets of Woodridge ( rough area )at midnight. He also said the dog would take down a person.

I saw another trainer who was only interested in buying the dog from me after having him stay at his training facility for a week.

Then i saw another trainer, who evaluated the dog and diagnosed the problem as fear aggression, which i believe was correct.

I honestly don't know what my dog would do if someone attacked me.

[Tara and Sam]

I think the cavs could be good to have if there was as burglary - they'd be underfoot, helping, and the burglars would probably fall over them, or the cavs would jump in the car, and there wouldn't be room for the loot!! They're all a bit different, my cuz has a boy I bred, and it is duty to watch at night while she sleeps, and he barks if he hears anything, he escorts her to the door if the bell rings, and he does his loud serious bark, so people think he is B I G.Before he arrived, her large pot plants - all expensive big ones in ceramic pots - used to be stolen, probably to sell at the markets. Since he arrived, no one has touched them.

Mostly, all the majority of us need is an alert woofer. ;)

It's nice to know that our alert woofer will "guard" without being an aggressive nuisance, or a dangerous dog.

Here's my smiley teenager

Stop it you are makeing me want a Boxer

mum's cav sounds like the one you just described

years ago I was haveing a afternoon nap and my male dog on the floor beside the bed

I was half asleep and heard the front screen door make a noise , didnt take much notice as it did make noises at times for some reason

my boy got up and rushed to the door growling as I have never heard him before

when I go to door I didnt hear anything , so opened the main door only to notice the outside handle was all twisted and almost off the door

I had forgotten to lock the outside screen door

and someone attempted to break in

and my boy obviously scared them / him away with his growling

for some reason that afternoon I decided to bring the dogs in while I had a nap

so glad I did

[MyMolly]

Jed - I am getting my next boxer from you ;)

Ok here is another Molly story from today - about an hour ago. I heard this strange bark from Molly out in the back yard. Molly has the choice of where to sleep and quite often she is out in the back garden still when we do to bed and lock up and in the morning she is passed out on the couch (I sware she invites her mate over for a few bevies when we go to bed)

Anyway I didn't really think anything of it and it had gone on for about 2/3mins (which was long enough for me to think hang on what is going on here?) As I had just got to the back door there were a few thumps at the front door. So my hubby went and answered it and was greeted by 4 coppers flashing lights in the street and all!!!

Long story short there was a young fella in our back yard jumping on the kids trampoline so Molly didn't get him and Molly was doing laps around the tramp barking like a perfect Molly Wally Poo Dog! This young bloke was begging my hubby to put the dog inside so it wouln't get him HAHA!

We don't live in a dodgy suburb but after the past few months, maybe we do? HAHA!

I LOVE my Poo dog

Edited February 9, 2010 by MyMolly

[LDR]

Molly is gorgeous, and very intuitive and brave too !

And Jed, always a pleasure to read about / see your doggies - just gorgeous!

My dog stands 15cm at the withers and is a bit of a sook, so no protection for moi ;) But he does bark to alert us of people at the door / yard so at least I have a warning!

efs

Edited February 9, 2010 by LilDogsRule

[Aidan]

Aidan

e.g my Golden helped me dispatch two intruders who were attempting to break into my house during a time when there was a spate of home invasions in the area in which we lived at the time. Although he has "proven" himself in some capacity, I do not take him with me so that I can confront intruders when the alarm at work goes off, thinking that he will protect me.

No I wouldn't expect my dogs to do security work - and I certainly wouldn't expect it without training - but we are talking about protective pets here.

That was kind of my point

In the interests of this thread, I'll tell the story about my Goldie. He was only a pup at the time, and used to sleep just outside the bedroom door. One night I felt him nudge me with his nose, I woke up and heard noises outside. There had been a spate of home invasions in the area at the time, mostly elderly people in the area who couldn't defend themselves.

I could hear them at the front door, so Django and I crept down the hall very quietly. There were stained glass panes in the door and side-lights, and I could make out a person about to jemmy the door open. Django let out the most vicious growling and barking I'd ever heard from him or heard since, I yelled, and the would-be intruders took off.

Luckily they couldn't see him. Golden Retriever puppies are not very intimidating looking but I've learned that they can sound intimidating if pressed.

The thing that amazed me was his presence of mind to wake me by nudging me, presumably so that I could hear what was going on. If he had been barking I probably would have just told him to shut up. Then he kept quiet as we went down the hall, once the situation was assessed, he leaped into action.

Had this been a couple of years later, with my other dog, well - I probably would have just woken to a bare patch of dirt on the lawn and an empty bag of lime...

[twodoggies2001]

Well, this thread brings me back quite a number of years when my grown up adult sons were small children. My hubby and I were going out for the night and my younger sister and her then boyfriend were baby sitting for us. I warned her boyfriend, who thought it was funny to tease our great dane, not to do so. The idiot didn't listen did he?

When we came home, our dane was lying on top of him close to the front door, for about 3 hours, it seems. Before the days of mobile 'phones, so we couldn't be contacted. He pretended that he was tasking one of the kids out the front door, so the dog reacted. This dane was remarkably gentle with all small children, and he didn't like his kids being messed with. Needless to say, that was the absolute last time the idiot messed with our big boy.

[OSoSwift]

I would not ever expect my Whippets do guard in any form, but hey who knows maybe one day they may step up to the plate.

On a lighter note because, like i said earlier, this feel good thread seems to have diverted - but i agree Rommiandlewis - my Whippets would welcome a burglur/attacker with open arms and a face lick and see if they had treats in their pockets - before they would protect me!! Good job my husband is a big!! ;)

I think Lewis and Rommi would beat them to their car for a ride!

My hubby is big too, but he always says that he would be worried about him, I bite harder! Who knows, hope I never have to have any theories tried out!

Sometimes I do miss that about not having my Dobe any more, but having a Whippet around means you don't have to worry about someone taking offence to your dogs guardy behaviour.

[carlibud]

My GSD's are sooks, love everybody But a few months back Bryd's was asleep , and my OH had walked out the back and she hadnt heard him, well he opened the gate and she went crazy, she was barking so loud that she couldnt hear him telling her it was Ok it was him, she didnt go to bite him, but she didnt run off, and thats all I want from my dogs, I want them to be protective, would she have bitten, if it was someone she didnt know and he had run , I dont know. I think most people only want protectivenesss from their loyal pets, I know I for one would hate for my dogs to have to bite someone.

My old GSD girl RIP was the classic story of not knowing what they would do She was just the quiet family pet. But you never know how they will react when you are not there either.

The owner of next door had been in and out all day working with OH, she just laid in the shade watching everything. Well OH had to go across to the shop, across the road, well next door neighbour came over walked in as he had been all day and she met him at the gate , just a slight growl, but refusing to let him in. OH walked around the corner to see the NDN walking backwards saying "Its Ok I wont come in, its OK " ;) Would she have bitten him if he kept coming we will never know but she was warning him and standing her ground. As soon as she saw OH she walked away and laid in the shade ;) NDN always made sure he sang out after that, even if he knew we were home.Poor fella LOL

[Ambervale]

What amazing stories about some amazing dogs!! I have a couple to add.

My daughter was walking two of our shepherds a few years ago on an isolated part of the local bike track, Beretta was only a young dog, under 12 months and her mother Niki was over 2 years. Whilst my daughter was walking, two male teens rode up on bikes and began to say some horrible and suggestive things to my daughter, she was very frightened especially when they started circling her with their bikes. When one got off their bike, Niki went into full protective mode, barking snarling and putting herself in between the male and my daughter (she was 15 at the time) Beretta who had NEVER showed any signs of being protective was the real star of the show, she very calmly slipped her collar and lunged at the male, all hackles up and chased him away. Only stopping when my daughter yelled out for her to stop and come......Beretta calmly stopped and returned to my daughter and they came home. Beretta is a the silent but deadly type!! Oh and they are both GSD's.

Early last year I was in a DV situation. Leo my mini poodle that I had rescued attacked my ex despite knowing him. He was kicked in the stomach and was winded but he still had tried to defend me. Leo also once tore a chunk out of someones leg when they pretended to throw me into the river, I screamed and Leo bite HARD.

One of my GSDs is extremely protective of me, she sleeps on my bed at night time and has the deepest most menacing growl I have ever heard. We have had a spate of prowlers and the last time, Jade stuck her nose through the curtain gave a blood curdling snarl and who ever was out there let out an expletive and bolted. I have no doubt she would protect me as she has bailed up people who have come into the yard before that she doesnt know. She doesnt back down either. A trained dog handler tried to intimidate her and she stood her ground, with no noise, no hackles up, just standing there, head up, ears up and watching. The closer he got the bigger she got. When she decided he had got close enough she took a step toward him and growled with lips rolled back. He wisely retreated. Yet Jade is the most friendliest smoochest shepherd you could ever have. She adores my kids and is very accepting of people I allow into the house.

[MyMolly]

If I were those boys I would have packed it

I also think I should have defined the term "protection" in my first post.

I really love reading all the stories

[ZEPING]

Ive got a german shepherd from working lines that isnt trained in Personal protection however has had LIVE bite and drawn blood

there are mutiple examples as i live in the WESTERN Suburbs of sydney

including times when my window of my cars down and some random tried to open the back door of the car got bit badly ran of with another guy (jet was laying down in the back seat) chased them and punched on

jogging down the road with jet of leash he slowed down to poop and as i was pasting some unsavory charcter they were dikheads say the ipod i was carrying was theres i once again punched on and jet had my back covered (yes he bit people and there was presure he got kicked )