Dogs For Protection

[Kajirin]

I have two Boxers and they are quite protective...Tye is overprotective IMO.

Last year I became quite ill to the point of blacking out and not answering the phone. My parents rang my neighbour who then came over to check on me. The boys were inside at the time and were ok with the neighbour. She couldn't see me [as the curtains were closed] nor could she get a response from me [she tried for ages]. She called the ambos and the police arrived. The dogs were going to every window barking, growling and guarding [from what I was told later]. The police were to scared to even attempt to break in.

Tye looks the part, as he froths at the mouth when he's agitated.

Heh I eventually came to long enough to lock the dogs away and go to hospital.

But now Tye has become as I said before overprotective of me. I believe he would defend me to his last breath.

[cowanbree]

I have only ever had one dog truly tested, a sheltie named Brody. I always thought he would defend me and he did. The guy had been following me through a secluded bush area and grabbed my arm and pushed me over. Brody didn’t just bark and carry on, he bit him, several times and meant it. I am not sure what would have happened if it had gone further as Brody was only an 11kg dog but fortunately the guy took off. Interestingly enough Brody did chase him but only about 100 metres and then stopped and came back to me. There is no doubt in my mind that he was defending me, he could have ran but he chose to stay

[NZVizsla]

My dogs, definitely would not protect me, if it came to having to do more than bark. And one would bark, whilst walking backwards.

They're very good at alerting though.

What a good dog Molly is.

[Lally]

They're wonderful stories, all.

I believe that most dogs are inherently protective. Many years ago, at dusk, I went to the door of our house which can't be seen from the street and to my surprise saw 10 tall figures, dressed in black robes, with covered faces and some with skeletons painted on. They were standing in a semi-circle, with the theme from Ghostbusters blaring from a ghetto-blaster. It was the birthday of my recently dead, beloved grandmother and DH and I were sharing a bottle of champagne in her honour, so we were a bit squiffy I suppose. Immediately, I let out a suppressed scream myself - I was momentarily startled - and I guess that I sounded quite scared in those first few seconds.

Well, my two laid-back, male Cavalier King Charles Spaniels tore out of the house to the 'intruders' barking and (and this is what surprised us) desperately jumping at them, growling, and trying to get to their faces (so we thought). Their indignation and protectiveness was completely astonishing. The tall, black robes immediately dispersed, running in all directions.

We later learnt, much to our embarrassment, that the intimidating black-robes were actually various teenagers from the neighbourhood who were out 'celebrating' Halloween, i.e. just silly kids, and that they were very upset at our reaction. However, we had no idea of what was going on, and three of the boys were so tall and threatening looking.

Interestingly, when two of the girls in the group came to our house a week later with their parents, neither of the dogs would go near them, though they were typically friendly towards the parents.

One of my favourite stories is told by my friend who has a big, big Rotti called Frederik. He's a huge boy and as you would expect with a powerful dog, he's beautifully trained, and as a result, is one of the most delightful dogs of my acquaintance, ever. One day, my friends returned from work and no Frederik greeted them. As Frederik could get in and out of the house they walked around calling his name and heard him bark back, conversationally they said, in response. Following the bark's sound they arrived at the back bathroom to discover two men huddled up against each other in the shower, terrified, while Frederik calmly and patiently sat in front of the shower door. The burglars burst into tears with relief when my friends appeared, and cried again when the police took them away. One policemen said 'you're a very, very good boy, Frederik, and I'd like to shake your hand'. Frederik promptly offered his paw to the policeman.

[juice]

great story molly

and i have learnt a bit more about boxers, just thought they were loopy :D will hold them in a much higher regard

i think my dogs are a deterrant, but wouldn't rely on them.

when i lived in the uk on a remote road i often got people stopping to ask for directions, amazing how they suddenly stood back when i opened the door holding onto a bt, little did they know she would welcome them with open arms

[jacqui835]

There is a difference between a dog that barks and a dog that will actually step up and physically protect you from a stranger

A dog savvy person can back down a dog that is simply untrained and showing some protection. If you want to rely on an untrained dog to fully protect you though you're fooling yourself

This is perhaps a valid point, though I ask you, how relevant? How likely are you to be robbed by a 'dog savvy person'? In like 99% of cases, dog barks, person shows fear, dog escalates and chases person off the property.

I have had people tell my dog to be quiet, we even had one guy calmly try confront him, they took a step forward, and the dog did too. My dog has always stood between me and anyone suss, and I actually believe you would have to kill him to get him to move. He is completely fearless in those situations. He barks when he first hears a noise on our property, but if he finds someone there, that changes to a low growl and they can go backwards (off the property) but they can't come any closer. No-one has ever tested it. People have thrown him food though, which he completely ignores.

In the same way that a dog can be bred to herd, hunt etc I believe they can be bred to protect, because that's certainly what I've seen in my case. I've had other dogs, terriers and what not, that were kind of protective in that they barked and put on a good show, but when someone moved towards them they always moved back and eventually would sort of hide behind us. This dog however has been remaining between me and whatever I don't like since he was about 4-5 months old, but he came from a breeder specifically working to achieve that.

[MyMolly]

Well it seems that my posts often start debates ;)

SORRY!

Just healthy discussion - love it!

Thanks for your responses I love reading them....

Anyway I love my Poo Dog - I feel like a goose saying it but it is true :D She melts my heart.

[SpikesPuppy]

No one ever messed with my Newfoundland when he drew himself up to his full height and growled :D Anywhere, any time of day or night I could walk with him. No doubt he would be useless if someone DID try to take him on, but no one did (and we would pass dark alleys with drug deals, drunks, even the neighbours having their domestics etc).

[Sam&Saki]

Lovely stories, everyone - what a bunch of great dogs

There were 6 or so men working in my paddock. ... As soon as I went out, she got down and went back to friendly mode, but she was still watching. She knew they were allowed in the paddock, but she had no instructions to allow them into the yard, I wasn't there to greet them as friends, so they weren't coming in. As soon as I was welcoming, they were her friends too. They kept an eye on her, but she was all friendly as soon as I said it was ok.

Saki is like this too - it's amazing the way in a split second she'll go from hackles raised, growling in the back of her throat, staring down a worker in the reserve for getting too close to our property line; to being friendly and bouncing around the second I call her off and greet them.

Some breeds do have a far more protective temperament than others. Akitas are definitely another breed that would defend and protect you no matter what. I have absolute faith in my dog but I do hope and intend to never have to test it!

[Jed]

Breeds were bred for different purposes. Some dogs, of any breed, are naturally protective.

The companion guard breeds should step up to the plate, that's what they were bred for.

Good boxers have good nerves. That same thing which makes them happy and confident - is what makes them good in a tight situation. People, including owners, don't realise that their happy go lucky, waggy, trustworthy friend who jumps all over everyone is just as happy and confident to be a protector, if he perceives the need.

An inherently good natured breed, they can often seem friendly and silly, and you never have to worry about them rushing around biting people, but they wont hesitate for an instant if they see a problem.

The benefit of a purebred dog is that he was bred for a purpose - never lose sight of that with a purebred dog.

He will normally do what his genes dictate because that's what he was bred for.

[Nekhbet]

Good for you Jed you struck paydirt on your dogs and that you trust them. My comment was simply that because someones dog shows some supposed protective instinct dont be fooled into relying on it. Dont buy a boxer, GSD, Rottie etc and expect no work for full payment that is my point ... it seems to be lost on the majority of people on here.

This is perhaps a valid point, though I ask you, how relevant? How likely are you to be robbed by a 'dog savvy person'? In like 99% of cases, dog barks, person shows fear, dog escalates and chases person off the property.

I'd put that at well less then 99%. Someone giving your barking dog a good belt can mean game over for the dog. Robbers have been known to dispatch dogs before robbing the house as well through poison or physical abuse. I have had two of my dogs attacked by intruders and neither backed down even after being attacked, they did their jobs and it was the last robbery we had.

In the same way that a dog can be bred to herd, hunt etc I believe they can be bred to protect

not every hunting dog will hunt, not every herding dog will herd. Of course there are dogs bred with natural protective instinct BUT saying that, it's like saying your teen that has a whild streak will definately win in a street fight. There is show and there is substance, most dogs have the show.

Interestingly, when two of the girls in the group came to our house a week later with their parents, neither of the dogs would go near them, though they were typically friendly towards the parents.

they recognised the smell and probably the fear they had as well, hence they do not trust her.

[SmoothieGirl]

My first dog was a Dobermann called Sasha. She was a dog that was a born protector and always stepped up to the plate, consequently I had to be vigilant in my management of her. She wasn't aggressive, but very certainly protective.

The best example of this...

I used to pretty much always walk Sash around 7.30 at night and of course in winter its pitch black. One night I'm walking home across a quite a well lit park, my pretty girl happily heeling next to me when I hear "don't be stupid man, she's got a dog". I turn round to see a kid, maybe 16 or 17 on a bike yelling towards me. Then I hear another noise, turn almost a 180 and see out of the corner of my eye another kid bearing down on me on a bike. Stupid, stupid boy. Sash growled her horrendous growl, started barking, leapt up on top of her back legs and lunged at him. I had to check her off him and he turned so sharply to avoid her landing on him he came off his bike. Sasha is still going bananas barking at him, his mate is laughing at what was no laughing matter. As he's scrambling to get his bike off him and get out of there I tell him he's a d***head, tell Sash to heel again and march off a bit shaky, but with quite a smile on my face. Good girl, keeping me safe.

Bronte on the other hand would probably have leapt into my arms squealing with horror. She's the one that needs protecting.

Edited February 8, 2010 by SmoothieGirl

[RallyValley]

When I was about 10 years old 2 of my friends with Labs, Lilly (my cross) and I had walked to my mum's friends hose to deliever something on the doorstep. As we turned around thier neighbours Sibe was standing at the open gateway of the house snarling at us, well lab 1 hid behind lab 2 who hid behind Lilly who turned around and snarled at this dog who backed down and ran away.

I know it's not a people story but it was out of character and pretty brave of her, especially when the other dogs and us children were so scared. She also does this strange bark reserved only for when she sights a snake. Don't know what we will do when she goes.

[tarope]

I don't think of protection when I want a certain breed like a GSD or Rottie as these breeds have a natural instinct to protect the family they love and they do it very well.

When my GSD girl was 12 wks old she heard a noise and gave out a growl and a bark, it was so funny as she was so small. She turned out to be very protective of her family.

My GSD boy who is a big sook was sitting near the front security door (lucky it was locked) a few years ago when a delivery guy jumped over the front fence, well my boy nearly ripped the door off trying to get him. So I have no doubt mine would protect us.

Thats about all I can say because when you have a GSD or Rottie people are less likely to enter your property except stupid sales people who soon get the message. :D

[Jed]

Nekhbet, I think You are still missing the point. I hear what you are saying, and I can't comment on other guard dog breeds, because I don't know them, or the bloodlines well enough to know what they will or will not do.

Quite a few dogs of various breeds are protective. Collies are, I know, and some other breeds.

My Cocker Spaniel will growl or bite to defend. He is brave. Two louts on the beach set their big black dog onto him once - "get that poofy cocker" - so I let him off leash, and he rushed forward, met the other dog head on, bowled him onto his back, and stood over him, growling. Someone he didn't know walked into the house, and he went forward, growling and barking. Someone put his hand in the car, and the dog nipped him on the finger. That's not a guard dog, that's a dog with good protective instincts. There is a huge difference. In the normal course of events, he would protect me.

I would never expect him to stand and defend. If someone hit him, and he ran off, I wouldn't be disappointed. He is not a guarding breed, he is just a dog with good protective instincts trying to do the right thing for his beloved master.

About 8 years ago, I came upon 2 wild dogs - bigger than dingoes - who were going to attack me. The cocker, who was mosying around behind me, spotted them and went into attack mode. It looked as if they would attack him too, but when the boxer, who was further behind still, went into attack mode, they legged it. Which was handy, as I was pretty frightened. But that was dog - stuff, the dog who attacks first has the prime position.

I can't speak of any other guarding breed, but when the chips were down, I would expect a boxer to be there, and to continue to do whatever needed to be done, without flinching, or backing off. Guard dogs are bred for that purpose. And that's all they were bred for. I've had a couple of boxers who would herd chooks (which is not easy) but I wouldn't enter them in any trials because that's not their job.

I would think that 90% of decently bred registered boxers would step up to the plate, without fear and defend as much as was required. And I think the same applies to other guarding breeds. But you might own one it's whole life and never see that side of it.

I've had enough experience over the years to know that they do step up. If someone hit one, I would not expect it to back down. The teenager at the gate was not backing down - the further forward the men came, the more serious she became. The warning became a challenge. If they'd touched the gate, she would have bitten them, if they'd threatened her, she would have bitten them. And that's how it should be.

All sorts of people think they want a trained protection dog, which they wouldnt be able to train or handle (and many have dogs like this - hand grenades waiting for the pin to be pulled). Most people would be better off with a decently bred PUREBRED dog from a guarding breed. Which they simply train to be obedient, that's all that's required, the dog's instincts take over if required.

If you think you are a trainer, and you train a guarding breed to be "protective" without much idea what you are doing, chances are you are going to have an agressive dog. Which is not required in society.

That's why we have purebreds. We hope our dogs will never be in that situation, but if it's me or the dog, it's going to be the dog. And yes, most people will back off from a serious looking dog - the cocker backs most of them off because most people are wary of dogs. He'd have no hope against anyone serious.

Last year I had quite a bit to do with "trained security dogs" - up close and personal. From 10, I think there was one I would trust to defend, the others were simply rabid barkers, or fear barkers. And they were supposed to be trained. I think some of the security people chose the wrong dog to begin with.

I wonder whether people can differentiate between a good guard dog, and a fear barker? And that's basically what you were saying. People who want a dog for personal protection should investigate the guard breeds.

Boxers are trained and used as police dogs in Europe. I want mine to guard, but I don't want to train one to guard - I think they do just fine on instinct .... s they should, and I don't have to worry about having a dog which is a handful.

And with the 1% of dog savvy people with serious intent - the dog is probably going to be hurt. But the dog needs to have good nerve. You can't train nerve, they have it or not. And it's nerve which allows them to do their job, not aggression or nastiness.

Boxer history is full of true tales of boxers which were killed or injured, doing what they were bred for. A stud dog was exported to India, stood a season, lived in the house, which was burgled, he defended his home, but he was stabbled and died doing it.

As a breeder, my job is to ensure that I continue to breed the required character and temperament into the breed.

I think the boxer has been fortunate as a breed - he has never enjoyed enormous popularity as some other breeds have due to movies, or TV shows - he has his devotees - but there has never been hundreds of inexperienced people wanting to breed to cash in on the popularity, so breeding over the years has been steady. And the boxers today are not as "sharp" as the ones of 30 years ago, and that's not a bad thing, but they will still do the right thing, while maintaining their family dog and good old homey companion status. I know, when I go to work, and leave the boxer in the yard, that no one will be breaking in, and I also know the dog wont be randomly biting people.

That'll do me.

[Longcoat]

There is a difference between a dog that barks and a dog that will actually step up and physically protect you from a stranger

A dog savvy person can back down a dog that is simply untrained and showing some protection. If you want to rely on an untrained dog to fully protect you though you're fooling yourself

I am afraid I agree with Nekhbet's comment. There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog. Very few untrained family pets will step up and defend for real. Sure they bark and lunge and people back away and have provided a basic level of protection, but even a hard nerved guardian breed has to be trained to attack and bite. The more bites the dog experiences, the more wins the dog achieves, the more confidence the dog has to step up to the challenge which is how a protection dog is trained. There are plenty of dog savvy criminals who can unload an untrained dog and part of protection training is to counteract what the dog savvy criminals may do to the dog. IMHO, an untrained dog is a deterrent at a similar level as locks on a door, anything more serious required of the family pet will generally fail.

[Crisovar]

Well Nekhbet there are a lot of fools out there who have been protected by their UNTRAINED dogs.

There are some untrained dogs that will step up but in my experience such dogs are unsociable aggressive and virtually uncontrollable similar to the junk yard guard dog

CRAP!

[tdierikx]

I've had my own crossbreed and my other flatmate's 2 cattle dogs stand between me and a flatmate wielding a knife... none were trained in protection or guard work... and the cattle dogs were not mine. They saw where the threat was coming from, and diffused the situation by getting between me and the crazy guy and letting him know in no uncertain terms that they would do something if he came any closer to me.

I would have no hesitation in believing that my current 2 dogs would do the same thing... but thankfully we haven't had to test that... *grin*

T.

[Nekhbet]

Well Nekhbet there are a lot of fools out there who have been protected by their UNTRAINED dogs.

Oh christ almighty I didnt say it wasnt possible. I just said dont count on every dog doing it just because occasionally it shows some protective barking etc. It was simply a suggestion and probably a warning because I see so many people now saying 'Oh I totally believe he would protect me to the death'

Yes Jed I know the history of the boxer. Unfortunately I have not seen one that I would trust with my property thus far I'd be interested in knowing your bloodlines. I have some old videos of a boxer doing schutzhund it's very impressive and a pity some peopole do not take the breed more seriously.

Last year I had quite a bit to do with "trained security dogs" - up close and personal. From 10, I think there was one I would trust to defend, the others were simply rabid barkers, or fear barkers. And they were supposed to be trained. I think some of the security people chose the wrong dog to begin with.

I've worked with dogs like this. Again same scenario, the bark is louder then the potential bite. It's actually quite sad to see no matter what situation, a dog that has complete faith put into its supposed abilities when as a trainer you see an animal pinging out of its skull with fear, anxiety etc.

[moosmum]

There is a difference between a dog that barks and a dog that will actually step up and physically protect you from a stranger

A dog savvy person can back down a dog that is simply untrained and showing some protection. If you want to rely on an untrained dog to fully protect you though you're fooling yourself

This is perhaps a valid point, though I ask you, how relevant? How likely are you to be robbed by a 'dog savvy person'? In like 99% of cases, dog barks, person shows fear, dog escalates and chases person off the property.

I have had people tell my dog to be quiet, we even had one guy calmly try confront him, they took a step forward, and the dog did too. My dog has always stood between me and anyone suss, and I actually believe you would have to kill him to get him to move. He is completely fearless in those situations. He barks when he first hears a noise on our property, but if he finds someone there, that changes to a low growl and they can go backwards (off the property) but they can't come any closer. No-one has ever tested it. People have thrown him food though, which he completely ignores.

In the same way that a dog can be bred to herd, hunt etc I believe they can be bred to protect, because that's certainly what I've seen in my case. I've had other dogs, terriers and what not, that were kind of protective in that they barked and put on a good show, but when someone moved towards them they always moved back and eventually would sort of hide behind us. This dog however has been remaining between me and whatever I don't like since he was about 4-5 months old, but he came from a breeder specifically working to achieve that.

I also dissagree that a dog you can rely on to protect is going to be a serious handful for an experienced security handler only.

Very strong nerves are quite possible in a family pet,along with great determination.

O.K,So we can't count on them carrying through if an attacker is willing to keep coming,without P.P training.Maybe not,(maybe yes too) but We don't have to worry they will bite just because they have been trained to be aggressive either.They have the most important quality.The willingness to defend.

The dogs mentioned here are doing their jobs beautifully,not many are uncontrollable menaces.

If they don't go as far as a profesional trainer would like,at least they have been able able to be there when needed.These dogs all did what was required.

That to me is a lot more useful than a trained P.P dog who has to be locked away for the safety of every one.Thats not the type of companion most responsible dog owners want.

Reliability for any task is going to be stonger if that is specificaly what the line is bred for.Very few pure breeds are bred specificaly and solely for family suitable protection in Australia at least.If those that are are going to be such a handful,they are no good to me or the average family.

If the dogs professional P.P trainers are working with are generaly unsafe in companion situations,and its claimed repeatedly they are the only ones you can rely on,what does the ordinary person do if thats important to them?

We are proud of what our dogs have done.What is unlikely to be tested doesn't matter.If I

ever expect to need more than that,its time for a gun!

Keep the stories coming folks,they are great!

Edited February 9, 2010 by moosmum