What Breeds Actually Fall Under Bsl?

[tybrax]

Licensing will not work.

Local Gold Coast paper The Sun

17.2.2010.

Jessica Elder.

Non -breeders need to get the snip.

People who do not want theirs pets to breed but do not have them desexed have been branded

"animail killers" by a Gold Coast City Councillor.

Dog lover Cr Jan Grew said she was disgusted by the lazy nature of many city's pet owners.

"What happens to unwanted pets? they get killed," she said.

"Where talking about an innocent animal on the vets slab being given a lethal injection.

"If you don't intend to breed you dog and cat then the only responsible course of action is to have it desexed.

"Its no excuse to say 'oh but another dog jumped into my yard' it doesn't matter -its the owners responsibility.

The AWL has a policy against euthanasia, but the numbers of animals surrendered and found on the streets is

getting out of control. If owners were more resposible we would not have these problems.

The Council will implement new breeder regulations in April. The new rules will mean anyone wanting thier pet

to have a litter will be forced to pay $300.00 plus for a breeder's license. Compulsory desexing is not included

in the new Local law.

Cr Grew said that if desexing was not enforced the new rules would mean nothing.

Animal Control Officer Geoff Irwin admitted the new licensing rules were not stringently enforceable and

would be hard to POLICE.

"To track down the owners breeding without a permit,we would have to investigate individual matters

before issuing a show cause notice," he said.

View the proposed regulations at goldcoast.qld.gov.au from next month.

[sandgrubber]

I'd like to think my somewhat informed opinion of the banned import breeds is a bit more in depth than the average idiot who thinks APBT are "man eaters".

In my post you'll see that I said a licensing system (if it worked) would be good rather than having the dogs banned. But unless "the man" comes up with an adequate owner licensing system, I'd prefer the dogs remained banned. Why?

Dogo Argentino - bred as a pack hunter (jaguar, puma, wild boar) and a family guardian.

Fila Brasileiro - herding, guarding, tracking & controlling large game

Japanese Tosa: fighting (yes, I do know that they "wrestle" their opponents, but it's a myth that they do not bite)

Presa Canario: guardian, cattle dog

We see that they're all obviously large, powerful dogs bred for a specific job which requires them to have a certain temperament.

Dogo Argentino: "It should never be aggressive" according to the breed standard. But it does have a "domineering attitude".

Fila Brasileiro: "With its owners and family it is docile." A good thing. But "One of its characteristics is its aloofness towards strangers".

Japanese Tosa: The tosa temperament is marked by not only "patience", "composure" and courage, but also by "boldness".

Presa Canario: Whilst he is "gentle and noble with his family, with great affection to his owner", the Presa is also "suspicious with strangers" and is "especially equipped for the function of guarding".

You can't be serious. If you wanted every breed that had "aloofness", "dominance" or "guarding" in the breed standard banned; there'd be very few breeds left.

You really want Huskies, Malamutes, Akitas and most spitz breeds banned?

Most Mastiff breeds?

Ridgies and some Bully breeds?

Maremmas and CAOs and all the livestock guardian breeds?

So what, the only breeds left allowed will be Labradors and Maltese (which happen to have the highest bite statistics, but clearly the actual facts don't matter!)

The Filo's job description historically included tracking runaway slaves . . . dead or alive wasn't much concern. In some nations (eg, Brasil) it is acceptable, in a dog show, if they bite the judge (judges, for some strange reason, generally avoid feeling a dog's testicles), and a pup may be rejected because it fails, at 12 weeks, to show an acceptable degree of hostility toward strangers. "Aloofness" is a mis-translation. The Portuguese word means 'aversion/hostility/extreme distrust'. Quoting from Wikipedia .. . you can get better sources that say the same thing, and describe the tests used to decide if a puppy is sufficiently intolerant of strangers . . . if you take more time . .. Filas bond strongly with their immediate families and show extreme loyalty and protectiveness towards them. They live to protect their loved ones, including children and other pets. Very few will accept strangers. Many Filas will never tolerate any stranger. Despite their aversion towards strangers they are excellent family dogs, devoted to the children in their family. Sorry. I'd rather not have such a dog living in the suburbs with a macho owner who doesn't make sure the fences are up to the job. I can see it in Brasil or some other place where upper-middle class people have real and serious worries about their kids being kidnapped for ransom. Not in Australia.

Please give your source on bite statistics. I doubt they are correct. Should be noted that Labradors are the most common breed in the English-speaking world and much of Western Europe. People tend to trust them too much with children, and you can expect to find some incidents of Labbies biting, especially children under conditions where there is no adult supervision (a local Labbie was PTS for biting a kid this year . . . after she got the green dream they found she had a bunch of staples in her ear). That's a very different scenario than maiming or killing a stranger who enters the yard.

Edited February 28, 2010 by sandgrubber

[BJean]

The Filo's job description historically included tracking runaway slaves . . . dead or alive wasn't much concern.

Where do you get your information from?

It very well did matter that ther slaves were brought back ALIVE. A dead slave was no good to anyone.

In some nations (eg, Brasil) it is acceptable, in a dog show, if they bite the judge (judges, for some strange reason, generally avoid feeling a dog's testicles), and a pup may be rejected because it fails, at 12 weeks, to show an acceptable degree of hostility toward strangers.

This does not only apply to Brazil or the Fila for that matter, it applies to a few countries

and a few other breeds.

I can see how a pup may be rejected because it fails, at 12 weeks, to show an acceptable degree of hostility toward strangers reads hysterical and why one might get hung up on an interpretation like that -

but most good guard dogs would want to display some sense of terrirory or guarding propensity at 12 weeks old.

its nothing controversial.

That applies to ANY breed pup intended as a true guardian dog.

And guarding propensity has NOTHING to do with that individual puppy's inclination towards its human handlers / family.

Actually fwiw, a guardian breed puppy that demostrates a strong propensity to guard at 12 weeks is showing 'gameness' for its intended role.

"Aloofness" is a mis-translation. The Portuguese word means 'aversion/hostility/extreme distrust'. Quoting from Wikipedia

therein lies the problem!!!!

eta:

sandgrubber

if you'd like to find out more about the fila maybe contact some breeders and ask them about their dogs?

Basin Fila in colorado USA are very good

http://www.basinfila.com/

also AIM kennel as Basin offline atm

http://www.aimkennel.com/

From the FCI Fila breed standard -

Courage, determination and outstanding braveness are part of his characteristics. He is docile to his owners and family and extremely tolerant with children. His faithfulness became a Brazilian proverb (Faithful as a Fila). He is always looking for the company of his master. One of his characteristics is his distrust (ojeriza) of strangers. He shows a calm disposition, self assurance and self confidence, not being disturbed by strange noises or when facing a new environment. An unsurpassed guardian of the property, he is as well dedicated by instinct to the hunt of big game and to cattle herding.

what a magnificent sounding dog!

Wish they could be imported back to Australia again!

Edited February 28, 2010 by lilli

[rottiadora]

Aloofness - Distant physically or emotionally; reserved and remote: stood apart with aloof dignity. adv. At a distance but within view; stood apart with aloof dignity

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aloofness

[Longcoat]

Aloofness - Distant physically or emotionally; reserved and remote: stood apart with aloof dignity. adv. At a distance but within view; stood apart with aloof dignity

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/aloofness

Most of the old GSD breed descriptions mention aloofness with strangers, but I have noticed in more recent publications that the aloofness references are not often mentioned???.

[chrisjc]

its a FILA not a FILO. at least spell it correctly if your going to rattle off all your internet experience with the breed.

and its not in anyform aloofness that they display, its called "Ojeriza" which means "Dislike of strangers"

and it doesnt mean they will attack strangers, it means they dont like them, they can be trained very easily to tolerate strangers it doesnt mean they have to like them and seek attention from them. and in my experience with the breed[yes i have a little] the individual dogs would have to be put in a pretty heavy situation to bite or attack, they would probly knock you to the ground and prevent you from getting to their owner, an attack would be last resort.

guess what? its their job!

there are at least ten gaurdian breeds prevalent in our country now that as their job would do the same thing under threat, and they too can and have been trained to behave in the appropriate way. we should ban them too just to make sure hey?

[Howl]

its a FILA not a FILO. at least spell it correctly if your going to rattle off all your internet experience with the breed.

and its not in anyform aloofness that they display, its called "Ojeriza" which means "Dislike of strangers"

and it doesnt mean they will attack strangers, it means they dont like them, they can be trained very easily to tolerate strangers it doesnt mean they have to like them and seek attention from them. and in my experience with the breed[yes i have a little] the individual dogs would have to be put in a pretty heavy situation to bite or attack, they would probly knock you to the ground and prevent you from getting to their owner, an attack would be last resort.

guess what? its their job!

there are at least ten gaurdian breeds prevalent in our country now that as their job would do the same thing under threat, and they too can and have been trained to behave in the appropriate way. we should ban them too just to make sure hey?

Is that like when you called a dogo a "doggo"???

[chrisjc]

look at the keyboard you are using. look where the 'o' is and now look where the'a' is. i made a typo, and it wasnt the 5th page straight id done it. i never said i was a scholar, but i do my research before writting off a breed.

what else would you like to contribute?

[GeckoTree]

How come no ones mentioned wolf hybrids?

[Howl]

look at the keyboard you are using. look where the 'o' is and now look where the'a' is. i made a typo, and it wasnt the 5th page straight id done it. i never said i was a scholar, but i do my research before writting off a breed.

what else would you like to contribute?

Nothing, I just thought it was funny.

[chrisjc]

it was funny, maybeee ei sould chek mi speelinn b4 i post from now of.

[doit4thedogz]

If the APBT were still being advertised as a dog suited to pit fights, I would also support BSL for the APBT.

I don't understand this point.

A proper, game-bred APBT is a dog suited to pit fights.

That it's a disgusting practice and one which is thankfully outlawed is irrelevant, as is the fact that nobody in their right mind would "advertise" them as such.

But it's a fact. The dogs are bred to enjoy fighting another dog and to not give up. Does this mean you do support BSL, because they are bred to enjoy fighting other dogs?

I dont understand your point?

So do you support game-bred Apbts or not?

[doit4thedogz]

I whole heartedly agree with your argument, and why they can be difficult for inexperienced dog owners, but where do we draw the line..

If APBT owners say it's ok for other breeds to be banned, we have no leg to stand on, that's my point. Our whole argument of, "deed not breed" goes down the toilet. Can you imagine us pleading our cases in the court saying how wonderful our pets are, then saying, "oh but you can ban those other breeds, they're more likely to do more damage".

BSL does not work, regardless of what breeds are on that list.

It does stop some morons owning what they want, but then they just go and get a backyard bulldog/rotti and give them bad names.

It would be great if the government had some structure around ownership/breeding and proper control of all dogs, responsible owners and breeders would have nothing to hide.

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

Don't know about lifting all bans. If the Tosa made it over I know it will be popular in certain cricles. And we know where that would lead to.

[chrisjc]

id like to know what it would lead too. you only ever poke your nose out when you want to stir the pot buddy, give it up.

it amuses me since all your "other" names were exposed you went very quiet under this name and your others now you are all of a sudden posting again out of the blue on every forum under all the other names again.

[justin19801]

Filas, Tosas, Presas don't even show up in attack stats but GSDs, SBTs labs etc do. Those proposing BSL need to come up with non-rubbery figures to back their case. Otherwise they're confusing opinion with fact.

[rottiadora]

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT.

Edited March 6, 2010 by rottiadora

[doit4thedogz]

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT.

Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid.

And for someone who's never owned any of the breeds you seem to know so much about them.

[rottiadora]

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT.

Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid.

You're passing an AmStaff aka Pit Bull off as a Staffy. Is this your idea of a stand???

Edited March 7, 2010 by rottiadora

[doit4thedogz]

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT.

Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid.

You're passing an AmStaff aka Pit Bull off as a Staffy. Is this your idea of a stand???

I can call my dog whatever I want. Are you gonna correct all those people who say staffy instead of staffordshire bull terrier. Awww have a cry now

And what i call my dog has sooOoo much to do with having a stand on BSL. What else do you want to talk about??? what I had for breakfast?

[rottiadora]

Atleast you're trying to make a stand on your argument. Not like others on the forum who are constantly contradicting themselves.

You ought to talk. You are the one who had an AmStaff that became a SBT.

Im talking about a stand on fighting BSL. Having an actual STAND is a topic people like you always avoid.

You're passing an AmStaff aka Pit Bull off as a Staffy. Is this your idea of a stand???

I can call my dog whatever I want. Are you gonna correct all those people who say staffy instead of staffordshire bull terrier. Awww have a cry now

And what i call my dog has sooOoo much to do with having a stand on BSL. What else do you want to talk about??? what I had for breakfast?

As a matter of fact it does.

You and those like you calling your Pit Bull (an AmStaff unreg with the ANKC) a SBT is a sure fire way toward BSL for them too.

Edited March 7, 2010 by rottiadora