Soak Eukanuba In Warm Water?

[Bullbreedlover]

I wouldnt bother soaking, your dog needs to chew not eat slop

if you are worried feed smaller meals twice a day, less to none on stinking hot days and dont let the dog run around like a loony straight after a meal

Many dogs dont chew their food N

And soaking the biscuits doesnt reduce them to slop

Depends on how much water you use and how long they are soaked for

[stormie]

Personally, I think if you have a breed that is very prone to bloat, you should consider having a gastropexy done when they are desexed. It won't stop them bloating, but it can stop them torsioning, which is what often causes the complications leading to death. It's done routinely over in the USA and I'd like to see it done more often here too.

Many now disagree with this being done so its a dilemma either way,i wouldnt get it done on my guys just in case

Interesting, seeing a number of specialists/breed specialists are all for it. But each to their own I guess. I had it done. I'd much rather do it now, whilst he is healthy and his stomach tissue is healthy, than be doing it after he's bloated and already in a compromised situation.

The tacking isn't meant to prevent bloat - the idea behind it is that the stomach can't rotate as it's tacked in place. So if they do bloat, you have a better chance of being able to relieve it via stomach tube, which otherwise you may not be able to pass through if the stomach has torsioned.

And thanks for sharing that Stonebridge, I've never heard of a case of a pup bloating before.

Trocar's can be and are used in dogs, though I know my vet wouldn't do it unless it was a matter of only having minutes to spare.

Edited February 6, 2010 by stormie

[Sagittarian]

That was a very interesting study - thanks, Miranda. Having lost two to gvd a long time ago, I've taken a great interest in the risk factors.

Too often I have customers who feed in raised bowls, soak dry food containing citric acid, and feed one big meal. Because of the abundance of differing opinions and ideas on risk factors, it is sometimes frustrating to see people become inflexible about the common sense approach.

Feed smaller meals. Add some "wet" food - quality canned, a little meat or meat mixed with vege slop. Use foods that are well designed for proper digestion (or a raw diet). Know your dog - if they are a stress head and they are in that at risk group body wise, then learn the difference between normal panting and the heavier, difficult panting that makes alarm bells ring if you've ever seen bloat. If the stomach begins to swell - get to the vet. If the dog is standing, swaying, drooling too much - get to the vet.

And puncturing the stomach most certainly can work if it is done in time.

Unfortunately, if a dog is prone to gvd, one can do everything properly and still experience this frightening event. As has been said, there are still no complete answers, so common sense and knowing your dog are your best weapons against it.

Personally, we don't soak kibble. Dogs are designed to chew and if the kibble of one brand is too small, then find one that encourages better chomping.

Sags

(St Bernards)

[stormie]

Interesting regarding the raised feeding thing. I feed raw now and every time I give him RMB's, he will take them to a chair or something else raised, to elevate them himself! I figure this is more comfortable for him than stretching down to eat, so his meat meal in a bowl is fed raised too. I don't do it for the bloat factor but because it seems to be more comfortable.

[oakeydoak1]

I am under the impression that the breeder fed him dry puppy mix, not soaked. I tried to feed him some soaked Eukanuba, but he doesnt seem to eat much of it....It doesnt look like he has really had a good meal, should i start getting concerned?

He seems to take a couple of bites, and then hes had enough.

Here is a pic of the boy anyway, a nice DBD.

Gabba - He is very cute.

[arawnhaus]

Personally, we don't soak kibble. Dogs are designed to chew and if the kibble of one brand is too small, then find one that encourages better chomping.

Sags

(St Bernards)

I don't soak anymore with pup's, but i have witnessed pup's not used to dry can choke/spit a little so I add a little warm water and mix it through some mince or equivalent and slow them onto it dry.

[Danois]

I don't soak either. I do feed from a raised height simply out of comfort for the dog (dane).

Only time I have added water to food was when using a supplement or to make it smell (ugh) to tempt him to eat as a puppy.

Will be getting a pexy done in the next couple of months - having a bloat prone breed I will consider any measures to reduce the risk of bloat or to buy me time to get to the vet.

After a while the routines around feeding/ exercise/ supervision etc simply become second nature.

[centitout]

No one knows why some bloat. You could feed two dogs the same foods and one could bloat and the other may not. If the ingredients in food was the cause, why aren't more dogs bloating at a younger age, when first fed that food? Generally they seem to bloat as adults, rarely as young dogs. I've also seen dogs that bloated many hours after their last meal and also seen one bloat directly after feeding, in its crate.

Personally, I think if you have a breed that is very prone to bloat, you should consider having a gastropexy done when they are desexed. It won't stop them bloating, but it can stop them torsioning, which is what often causes the complications leading to death. It's done routinely over in the USA and I'd like to see it done more often here too.

I will not gastropexy any of mine-my vets have had to repair a few though done by other vets.I had one bitch bloat years ago.All of mine are fed twice a day,i dont soak,but i DO NOT RAISE THEIR FEEDERS.They are also all fed seperately to minimise stress ,which has been found to be a contributing factor in bloat.

Mine are fed 1/2 raw,1/2 dry,bu tin very hot weather,are only fed something like a frozen raw carcass or heart etc.

I had a husky bloat after a can of PAL ,he had to be pts but was found to have a suspected splenic tumour as well.

Bloat can run in lines in any breed,if a dog bloat at a young age their is an increased risk in littermates bloating-will try to post the link when i work out how.

[GABBA]

Hmmm...that study was an interesting read. My pup is currently 8 weeks old now, and has no trouble getting through the dry mix...my only concern was, if it needed to be soaked to prevent bloat, however i have also heard that soaking it in warm water takes any nutritional value away.

One thing i am having a real problem with (at least i think its a problem) is that i am finding it difficult to set certain 'eating' times, i know the breeder would feed him twice a day with a (decent) dry puppy mix, however, i can only really get him to eat one meal a day....sometimes when i try to give him food, hes not really very interested. I dont leave the bowl on the floor for him....im not really sure if he is not eating enough AND SECONDLY i dont really want him to eat all his food in one sitting (as they say one meal a day is a contributor towards bloat).

[Danois]

If he is only 8 weeks old then I am assuming he has only been in the house a couple of days?

They can take a few days to settle into their routine which includes eating. Are you feeding the same as the puppy was getting at the breeder's place?

The theory is to leave the bowl down for 15 mins and then put it away until the next meal. They will not starve themselves.

As for timing - I was never one to fed at the same time every day - mix up the routine. I feed between 6.30pm and 9pm.

[GABBA]

Hi Danois, thanks for the reply. Yes, i have only had him for 3 days, so he is still brand new, and i guess he is still getting used to us. I have not been feeding him the same food as the breeder, although i ran it by her, and (in her opinion) she thinks Eukanuba, is a decent puppy mixture.

I guess, i can only continue doing what i am doing, you are definatly right in saying he wont starve himself.

My main aim is to feed him 2 decent meals a day, incl. Eukanuba (large) puppy dry mix and some chicken necks. I may even mix some steamed vegetables in there (im assuming steamed vegetables - peas, etc) are suitable?

[Danois]

The change in diet would explain. Don't be surprised if you get the runs.

Vegetables - no need to steam them especially as this destroys their nutrient value - you're better buying a juicer and feeding the pulp (fruit and vegie) and a little of the juice. In saying that, if you feed a premium giant breed specific food then you should not need to add vegies etc as the food is designed as a complete diet.

I have never fed chicken necks as felt they are too small, preferring chicken wings and then moving to carcasses.

Remember the aim is to grow them slow and steady and definitely no calcium supplements.

Have you considered Eagle Pack or Nutrience instead of Euk? Never been a fan of it myself.

[GABBA]

I have never tried Eagle Pack, however i have heard they have a specific giant breed puppy mixture, as opposed to Eukanuba that's designed for large breeds. The reason i have started with Eukanuba, is simply because i had a coupon to get the free 3kg trial bag. So far the dog seems to eat it, but like i said, not in large amounts. I suppose its a good thing, i certainly dont want too much weight gain.

My friend was telling me, that a vet had told him, that with regards to feeding the pup, it would be better off feeding him the dry puppy mix, over raw chicken, as the meat only contains protein which will help in growth, but wont provide the other required nutrients.

I will try this Euk, and see how things go, but i may very well have a go at Eagle Pack, like i said, ive heard good things about it.

***

As for soaking the Euk, ive decided not too, firstly, Caesar can handle eating it dry, secondly, i have heard soaking removes any nutrients it would otherwise have, and thirdly, the study claims that foods with citrus in them, when soaked increase bloat by approx. 300% (im sure thats what the figure was).

That being said, we can only try our best, and see how we go.

[geo]

WOW , just read the thread, my friends amstaff died last week from bloat (he was 7) as well as having one of my boxers years ago have 2 episodes of bloat.

I was never sure what contributing factors were increasing risk, besides breed.

I now have 2 large dogs, not really deep chested, i also live in the middle of 2.5hrs from the nearest vet (darwin), it is always hot here, i feed dry (with bones, fish, meat, eggs, veggies etc..) Feed them seperately but the pup scoffs his food.

So i would love any advice on what to do or what i should buy to help me out should this happen to one of them.

I'd have no drama administering needles or whatever.

[centitout]

WOW , just read the thread, my friends amstaff died last week from bloat (he was 7) as well as having one of my boxers years ago have 2 episodes of bloat.

I was never sure what contributing factors were increasing risk, besides breed.

I now have 2 large dogs, not really deep chested, i also live in the middle of 2.5hrs from the nearest vet (darwin), it is always hot here, i feed dry (with bones, fish, meat, eggs, veggies etc..) Feed them seperately but the pup scoffs his food.

So i would love any advice on what to do or what i should buy to help me out should this happen to one of them.

I'd have no drama administering needles or whatever.

Hi Geo,

sorry about your friends dog.

My sister has a "bloater" ex aquis lab who bloats after every meal,has a few ripper farts and is then ok,always worried about him.He bolts his feed(all their work dogs do) so she feeds him out of a ring cake pan to slow him down,or you can put a heavy chain in his bowl,so he has to slow down to get around it.

Have you tried Thrive D?

[geo]

WOW , just read the thread, my friends amstaff died last week from bloat (he was 7) as well as having one of my boxers years ago have 2 episodes of bloat.

I was never sure what contributing factors were increasing risk, besides breed.

I now have 2 large dogs, not really deep chested, i also live in the middle of 2.5hrs from the nearest vet (darwin), it is always hot here, i feed dry (with bones, fish, meat, eggs, veggies etc..) Feed them seperately but the pup scoffs his food.

So i would love any advice on what to do or what i should buy to help me out should this happen to one of them.

I'd have no drama administering needles or whatever.

Hi Geo,

sorry about your friends dog.

My sister has a "bloater" ex aquis lab who bloats after every meal,has a few ripper farts and is then ok,always worried about him.He bolts his feed(all their work dogs do) so she feeds him out of a ring cake pan to slow him down,or you can put a heavy chain in his bowl,so he has to slow down to get around it.

Have you tried Thrive D?

Have never heard of Thrive D, what is it?

[centitout]

Thrive D is an enzyme supplement that helps to breakdown food,theoretically resulting in less gas production.

Having a bloat prone breed myself.i am always vigilant with mine with dry food,they get a minimal amount,and only because they didnt look so great on total raw,but they are always fed twice a day and seperated .Hot weather is prime bloat time.

[Nekhbet]

Having raised a Dogue on Eagle Pack I can't say anything less then good things about the giant breed formula. He came with flat feet, collapsed wrists, acne and infected skin. Within a few weeks he was looking fabulous.

Yes chicken necks, frames, lamb flaps etc are great BUT you should be sticking to a good dry food for main meals in a giant breed. Unless you want to spend time fiddling with raw foods and potentially getting it wrong, honestly it's easier and you know your dog is getting exactly what it needs. Plus in the hot weather you wont have to be fiddling with raw meats.

from one Dogue owner to another

Edited February 11, 2010 by Nekhbet

[newfsie]

WOW , just read the thread, my friends amstaff died last week from bloat (he was 7) as well as having one of my boxers years ago have 2 episodes of bloat.

I was never sure what contributing factors were increasing risk, besides breed.

I now have 2 large dogs, not really deep chested, i also live in the middle of 2.5hrs from the nearest vet (darwin), it is always hot here, i feed dry (with bones, fish, meat, eggs, veggies etc..) Feed them seperately but the pup scoffs his food.

So i would love any advice on what to do or what i should buy to help me out should this happen to one of them.

I'd have no drama administering needles or whatever.

I am highly likely to get shot down in flames.........But I have newfoundland dogs and have had them since the 1980's. I have been overseas to study about bloat and done many work-shops over in the USA and Canada for first aid in bloat and at some veterinary conferences...........

I feel i have been extremely lucky and have not have had one of my dogs go down with bloat. i have however helped several people, who like you and me , live a long way from the vet, do first aid.

the link attached is a very basic instruction http://user.gru.net/urbnbot/Bloat_Emergency_Info.pdf If you are interested in more, just ask me. It is scary when you can't just get to the vet straight away

[GABBA]

Hey Nekhbet, gotta love the breed lol!

I think i will be sticking with a dry mix, at least while he is a puppy, that way i can be sure that he is getting all the required nutrients and minerals that he requires, but as you know, i also throw in a couple of chicken necks here and there - which he really enjoys (on a side note, he is becoming less protective on them as each day goes by, hes getting his confidence in knowing that im not going to try and snatch them off him).

I took him to the vet yesterday and asked a bit about his weight, etc, and ive been told that hes looking good, and that his weight is good, so i'll try keep going, so he doesn't get too heavy (or too thin).