Luring Vs Targeting

[corvus]

I've noticed that a lot of trainers seem quite uneasy about luring, but much more comfortable with targeting. The only difference I see is that a dog is likely to understand a new behaviour faster with targeting because you're telling them exactly where to put their nose/foot/whatever rather than getting them to follow you until they are in the right position (or nearly in the right position). Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit uneasy about luring as well. I guess because I prefer to have them focused on me than the food in my hand, and I think there's nothing like a clicker for getting precision, and nothing like free shaping for exercising a dog's mind and getting them problem solving. But is there a significant difference between luring and targeting? Why is one more readily accepted than the other?

[Casima]

Here is my 2c as someone who trains agility.

I started out training as a lurer, and a few years back I was converted to targeting and now I will chose to target train over lure 99% of the time.

here are the benifits to targeting I have found...

- Much better understanding from the dog - leads to more confidence and speed - great for agility

- Much faster learning

- Very easy to train a behaviour completely independant of me... the difference in independance of a dog with target taught contacts and weaves compared with lure taught is HUGE! and very important for a great agility dog.

- The ability to teach more complex behaviours, eg I taught my BC to do a handstand essentially with targeting, there is no way (that I can think of) that I could have lured this!

- More fun for me, I love to watch the wheels turn in my dogs heads as they think through a shaping session, much more fun than lure training.

- It seems dogs with a long history of shaping keep their brain switched on when in full drive a bit better as they are used to thinking while working for high level reinforcement. (Am sure there are plenty of exceptions either way, just my experience)

I think one benifit of lure taught behaviours is that it is very easy to phase the lure into a very reliable hand signal, but for agility this isn't important.

[Cosmolo]

I use both for different things and i agree with the points Casima mentions. In classes i use mainly luring, as many new dog owners find it easier to start with. But for my own dogs i would tend to do more targetting now, although one of my dogs was trained in the early stages with luring and guiding and she is now the best out of the lot at shaping and targetting.

[corvus]

I'm target training Kivi at the moment. He is so much happier since I went down this route and abandoned free shaping with him. Erik is great at free shaping, but I'm going to do some targeting with him as well. Yesterday I started teaching him to back in a circle around me and there's no way I could have shaped that, even with Erik. He's pretty good transitioning away from the lure, but I really like the targeting. It's good fun and I like being able to throw a target away from me and tell Kivi to go put his nose on it. It's really opened some doors for us, as Kivi had a problem with too much handler focus. He was very reluctant to take his eyes off me during training and that just compounded his tendency to fail to notice his surroundings and be aware of what his body is doing. He very much likes luring as well, but I find it harder to communicate with him that way and he's more likely to get frustrated and throw the towel in.

[ChristineX]

quick technical question: whats targeting?

ChristineX

[Vickie]

There are things that I find easier to lure in the beginning but I like the dogs to make the transition as quickly as possible into offering (not necessarily targetting) a behaviour.

I think sometimes if you never move beyond a lure, the dog has not actually learnt anything. We see it with weaving in agility all the time. Dogs can be lured for a very long time & still have no concept of how to weave.

[Vickie]

oops Gremlins

Edited February 5, 2010 by Vickie

[TerraNik]

I have no issue with luring - only when it's used forever. I agree with Vickie - the dog never actually learns the behaviour.

I use luring quite a bit but I fade it out very quickly. I rarely use targeting to teach a new behaviour (no particular reason why). It's either luring or free shaping for me.

[corvus]

ChristineX, targeting is teaching a dog to touch a particular body part (usually nose or front paw) to a target, such as a disk or a target stick or the back of your hand on cue. You can also teach them to target multiple body parts. Kivi can target with his nose or front left paw, and I'm in the process of teaching him to target with his hips. Eventually I want to teach him to target with his nose, right paw, left paw, right hip, and left hip and maybe shoulders and/or rear feet. Dunno how far we'll get! Depends how much Kivi likes it and what we can do with nose, front paw, and hip targeting and whether we need more.

[Kavik]

I am finding that I am using shaping and targetting more and more and luring less. The dogs seem to retain the training better, and offer it quickly and enthusiastically.

Some things are easier to lure and as mentioned make a transition to a hand signal very easy (such as spin and drop). I agree with the others, you have to fade the lure (and hand signal if you want voice only) and let them offer the behaviour at some point or they never really learn it.

[luvsdogs]

I've done a little targeting with Tilba & she uses her nose & paw. All new exercises are mostly lured. Who has videos of their dogs doing their luring training? I'd like to go further but not sure how to go.

[Aidan]

I don't really know why one is more readily accepted than the other but I can tell you that in my experience, repeated over and over, fearful or anxious animals (not just dogs) will follow a target more readily than a lure; e.g floating a horse, taking a dog across an unstable surface, putting a cat in a crate etc

[kiesha09]

I use mainly targetting now but had no problems luring in the past. The problems with luring stem from the fact that people don't fade the lure fast enough. You need to get rid of it quickly and move onto the hand signal.

[corvus]

I have to say, I like target sticks. They look so professional.

My hare follows a target more readily than my hand, and it has the added bonus that I can turn him away from me without reaching my hand over the top of him. That's a huge benefit.

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.