Zhou Xuanyao Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 When humans stop believing they are something they are not (ie, something other than or more than an animal) they will gain more insight into animal behaviour. Like you say, it is very similar to human pack mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I don't understand why a rational animal would attack their owner who cares for themUnless... they were not treated humanely? But then like people maybe there are dogs with mental illness? Please help me make sense out of it http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1454280/ My sister lost her beloved male stafford to a brown snake and just could not bear it, so went out and bought the first male pup (that looked like Pappy) that she could find... Buddy was a cute puppy but by the age of about 20 weeks, he was shaping up to her female stafford.. I mentioned that at his young age, I thought that was very unusual... The female put him in his place but by the time he was 9-10 months old, he was bigger than her and would not take it lying down. He attacked her and then she backed down... They also had another pup (sharpei x mastiff, Tex) and Buddy used to beat up on him all the time... Very rough play to the point where the other dogs got hurt (a lot).. Fast forward to when he is 14 months old and he bailed my sister up in the yard, so she finally had him desexed (I told her it may not make any difference to him and I think he has something wrong with him)... 3 months later, my niece was calling to her mother and Buddy had her cornered and growled at my sister when she tried to move him.. She called her husband and the vet and the dog was put down an hour later in their back yard... To this very day I believe that Buddy had something wrong with him from the start.. He always walked around with his tail in the air, he would walk past you in the lounge room and look sideways at you and growl, he constantly hurt the other dogs and he always looked like he was ready to have a go at anyone or anything... I wished they had done an autopsy on him to see if he had a brain tumour or something because I really don't think a dog that is loved and cared for, just 'turns' on its owners for no reason... I had a beautiful purebred Arabian mare that I had known from birth and owned from age 3 who had always been a very sweet mare albeit a bit headstrong and difficult at times. She was never treated harshly but with patience and firmness as required. At about age 10 she started to display aggressive behaviour that had not been evident before. Long story short (yeah I know there's no such thing) through a long process I found she had a hormonal imbalance that we were able to bring back ito balance with the help of a Equine Naturopath. I had been planning to breed her before the aggressive behaviour began and then was going to sell her but felt she was my responsibility and as she had attacked me a number of times already I had to handle her in a very careful and specific way, for example she always had to be tied when being brushed or rugged as she would turn to bite if she wasn't. Friends had offered to give her a 'retirement home' but I was afraid she would hurt someone. One day I was just standing in the paddock a few feet away from her, contemplating her as it were, when she suddenly bared her teeth and ran at me! I made myself large by putting my arms up in the air, slightly crossed and yelled at her, she turned tail and ran off but not before aiming a kick at me as I flew between the wires of the fence to get out of the paddock (didn't know I was that nimble!) Time passed and she seemed to improve a little, bit by bit. One day my daughter, who was 12 at the time, was patting her in the paddock and the mare seemed happy in herself, my daughter commented on how much sweeter the mare seemed again and stepped away from the horse. My daughter was so chuffed I guess at how she was now able to pat the mare and decided walk back to her and give her another pat. DISASTER. As she walked towards the mare the horse reared, then bared her teeth and ran at my daughter. Frightened my daughter turned to run away, the mare grabbed her by the shoulder (fortunately it was winter and she had a bulky parker on) lifted her into the air, shook her and dropped her to the ground. The horse reared up as if she were going to pound this child into the ground, I screamed as I was running towards them, so the mare seeing me charging at her ran off. The child was shaken and bruised but otherwise okay. The mares problems were then fixed with a .22 Z in the forehead the next day. I know that had she been a dog she would have been put down at the first sign of aggression. I tried everything I could think of, at a fair bit of expense for two years. I only came to my senses when my daughter was attacked. I often wonder if there was a tumour or something like that wrong with her. An autopsy was out of the question as it would have cost too much and not changed anything. Someone asked me recently if I still had that grey mare. No, I relpied "she went mad and we shot her". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarope Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Very sad story, maybe something very wrong with the DNA of these poor dogs. ;) An article I read some time ago said why does a dog raised with love and kindness suddenly turn on it's owner, yet a dog that has been cruelly treated and abused for a long time doesn't. DNA was given as a possible cause as it's not breed related, which makes sence to me. My Rottie is a perfect example of this, she is an ex-cruelty case and was very badly treated (bashed, starved, chained) and was very scared of me. :rolleyes: At no time did she try to bite or attack me, she's the most loving and gentle girl you could ever want and over the last 5 years has been a joy to own. Owners are the problem most of the time, but sometimes it might be the dog who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yes, the reasons are not alway logical or simple. I even had an aquaintance who stated "that a horse would not turn nasty unless it had been mistreated at some point? I knew this animals entire history. Even her breeder and my friend asked me why I had not put her down sooner? I just felt I owed it to her to try to help her. And it so true that even dogs (and other animals) that have been badly treated will respond to kindness and learn to trust and forgive...eventually. And often although shy and fearful are not necesarily aggressive in any way. Sure these are the animals you try to place with appropriate families, or people just in case but overall they don't seem to hold any resentment and are often even super friendly?? Maybe it also about personality too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiff Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Actually, majority of dogs allowed to form a pack and uncontrolled will exhibit territoriality, some aggressive responses and wild behavior. It is a predator, I think we become a little jaded these days thinking that all dogs need is love and a few treats and they will love you unconditionally back. OK True for some softer breeds but others will steamroll over youBeing from Ljubljana he probably had them as guard dogs too and thought the behavior was useful I think this is also true for humans! Get a footy team or 'gang' together and they definately behave differently to being on their own As much as we 'modern' humans think we understand nature, we really will NEVER know what really goes on in any animals brain, or understand the infinately many and small signals that we do not even see. Please dont compare a pack of dogs to a football team, dogs are infinatley more intelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Please dont compare a pack of dogs to a football team, dogs are infinatley more intelligent That's true, I'm on two football teams so I know. Dogs smell better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Actually, majority of dogs allowed to form a pack and uncontrolled will exhibit territoriality, some aggressive responses and wild behavior. It is a predator, I think we become a little jaded these days thinking that all dogs need is love and a few treats and they will love you unconditionally back. OK True for some softer breeds but others will steamroll over youBeing from Ljubljana he probably had them as guard dogs too and thought the behavior was useful I think this is also true for humans! Get a footy team or 'gang' together and they definately behave differently to being on their own As much as we 'modern' humans think we understand nature, we really will NEVER know what really goes on in any animals brain, or understand the infinately many and small signals that we do not even see. Please dont compare a pack of dogs to a football team, dogs are infinatley more intelligent True, dogs are way more intelligent but you have to admit many team sports are a perfect example of "Pack mentality"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I once had a class for aggressive dogs where each handler owned two dogs. In each case, the 'other' dog was normal, friendly and sociable. Whilst no owner is perfect and different dogs need different behaviours from their owners, it's hard to blame the owner when they have proven to be capable of raising normal, sociable dogs as well. So I really hate it when I hear "dogs aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by their owners" and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottychick Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 They'd been "in custody" for 4 years. God only knows what happened to them in all that time. No wonder they were untrustworthy - especially having been violent previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I once had a class for aggressive dogs where each handler owned two dogs. In each case, the 'other' dog was normal, friendly and sociable. Whilst no owner is perfect and different dogs need different behaviours from their owners, it's hard to blame the owner when they have proven to be capable of raising normal, sociable dogs as well. So I really hate it when I hear "dogs aren't born aggressive, they're made that way by their owners" and the like. It's the same with kids. It's not always the parents fault if the kid turns out to be violent or aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Please dont compare a pack of dogs to a football team, dogs are infinatley more intelligent That's true, I'm on two football teams so I know. Dogs smell better too. I have to agree here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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