Purebred Vs Designer Mutts Channel 9 Morning Show

[bryan_mannix]

Could be the backing of a disgruntled gardner. He always fancied himself as running an organisation in opposition to the ANKC. Remember when he asked registered breeders to join him in another organisation?

In hindsight, I think it would have been an excellent idea.

The "old boys" running the CCs seem to be lost in the 19th century, with shows and afternoon teas, and nice registrations. They haven't demonstrated any ability to cope with, and steer their organisations through the stormy waters of 2000s. I think the gardener could do that, and do it well.

He'd prefer a heap of ANKC dogs to some abbadabbadoo ones. After all, his promotion of DD was simply to spite the ANKC

*scuttles down the back to hide*

Jed!! This is out of character! Have you been picking your own mushrooms

I concur.

Though would a d*ckhead become a good di*ckhead if he was on our side. Certainly he has the political ability, media savyness and streak of stubbornness that would be required.

Give him a ring!

[sandgrubber]

Again . . . has anyone contacted channel 9 to point out that they are disseminating misleading information. winging on dol does nothing. . . ok it may let off steam.

Edited February 9, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Steve]

Im happy for them to promote the dogs they breed based on the facts of what they breed rather than having to compare them to purebreds because there is no comparison. Its like comparing apples to oranges.

Just as a purebred breeder has to tell their buyers that certain genetic issues are known to be in the breed and how they need to manage them DD breeders need to do the same.

Quote from Australian Association of Pet Dog Breeders website

Welcome

Welcome to the home page of the Australian Association of Pet Dog Breeders.

In this site you will find dog breeders who are committed to breeding healthy pets with great temperaments. Some of our breeders breed purebred dogs, some breed crossbreds and some are developing new breeds not yet recognised in the purebred dog world. If you purchase a dog from an AAPDB member you can be confident that you will get a predictable puppy which has been bred with care and thought. You will know that that your puppy’s parents are living comfortable lives and that they will retire at a reasonable age and live out their retirement as pets. You can join our owners community which will give you access to the owners forum, and the opportunity to meet up with other puppy owners for fun and socialisation.

Quotes Re first cross labs and poodles. Kate's family pets

You can see from the table above that there is a considerable range in size with a small number of dogs as large as Labradors and a few smaller than miniature Schnauzers. The size of the sire has an influence on this – not surprisingly the Toy males have smaller progeny – but within most litters there is a marked variation in the size of the pups.

Coat Type

My Labradoodles are all shaggy dogs. Their coats vary in thickness, texture, length and degree of wave or curl. They have a range of coat types ranging from short thin coarse hairy coats that are very easy care through to very thick long curly coats which are virtually identical to poodle coats and require regular clipping.

These characteristics of the coat seem to be independently segregating – i.e. the coats can be: soft short, thick and curly, very soft, long, thin and straight, soft, thick, long and wavy, coarse, ……… etc, etc. In fact the way we have described them there could be 68 different coat combinations and when you see 30 or 40 dogs at a picnic it is clear that very few dogs have exactly the same coat type.

With regard to shedding about 70% are low or moderate shedders, 10% of dogs are non-shedding and the remaining 20% shed a lot (some as much as a Labrador it seems).

I can't predict shedding with confidence – based on the results of the survey I have found that the chance of getting a non or low shedding dog is about 50% whether or not shedding was a priority. There are however among the pups a very few that we can confidently predict will be non shedding (about 5%)

Skin disorders are the most common problems presented to veterinarians in dog and cat practice. The survey showed that many labradoodles had skin problems varying from trivial to serious.Atopy (the same disease which causes Hay fever in people) is an allergy to airborne allergens and is common in both Labradors, Poodles and Labradoodles. In Labradors the commonest symptom is "hot spots" and in Poodles the symptoms are most commonly foot chewing and sore ears. I can't find any data on the precise incidence of this problem in Labs or Poodles or even in the general dog population but allergic skin problems are a very common problem presenting to veterinary surgeries.

Of the Labradoodles with skin problems, most show only the occasional ear problem, foot chewing, hot spot or itch. About 30% had recurrent skin problems and between 5 – 10% had full blown atopy symptoms with a range of allergic reactions.

We do not offer a refund with dogs affected by allergic skin problems but will offer veterinary advice and management support.

End Quotes .

I rest my case!

Edited February 9, 2010 by Steve

[Steve]

A couple of months ago the MDBA was approached by someone who offered us lots of stuff to open our doors and allow DD breeders in.

I explained they were welcome to apply but that we would need to be able to see that they had something other than simply profit as a goal in their breeding programs and I felt that was going to be an impossible task considering they only do one litter and dont consider the future impact.

Im guessing the same person who offered us this is now backing the pet owners group.We could have used the money too.

This is a good thing as to date there isnt a way to distinguish the better commercial breeders to any of the rotten ones and though I think it kind of attempts to legitimise puppy farmers I figure that they are going to be there regardless and its better to give them an opt in method of being accredited than nothing.

This still leaves the MDBA as the only dog related group in this country where its members have agreed not to sell puppies to pet shops and a bunch of other things which distinguishes our members from any other group's members.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Steve

[mita]

In this site you will find dog breeders who are committed to breeding healthy pets with great temperaments. Some of our breeders breed purebred dogs,

So what's different from the registered breeders of purebreds who are not members of this Pet Breeders' Association?

For example, go look thro' the listings of tibetan spaniel breeders on Dogzonline Breed Pages....& see what they have to say about what they're doing.

The health, temperament & beauty of the breed are all in their goals.

Similar goals expressed re other breeds.

What the good registered breeders of purebreds need to do, is get their act up into the face of the public. Accurate info needs to be got out there, how purebreds are contributing to the community as excellent companion pets.

Seems to me, the bandwagon's been discovered (for better or worse) that there's a commercial market out there for pet dogs based on certain consumer expectations. And the Pet Breeders' Association is seizing that market in its public charter.

But where's the public charter for the far more well established breeding programs of the registered breeders? There needs to be a Purebreds In the Community component to the world of showing purebreds.

Anyone who heard, on radio National, the person speaking on behalf of DOGS Vic pet therapy team, would have learned a lot about the value of soundly bred & well raised & socialised purebreds. Pity this kind of story doesn't get on to the commercial TV stations. I'd be guessing because it's light years away from commercialism.

Edited February 11, 2010 by mita

[Buddy_N_Burt]

LMAO pure bred dog breeder are just as high an mighty as horse people. I would have thought you were all in it because of your love of animals, not for public perception that yours is better because it wins shows, lol

Maybe if you weren't all just elite puppy farmers you would understand. I mean really $1000 for a dog because it has papers, elite puppy farmers!

[poodlefan]

LMAO pure bred dog breeder are just as high an mighty as horse people. I would have thought you were all in it because of your love of animals, not for public perception that yours is better because it wins shows, lol

Maybe if you weren't all just elite puppy farmers you would understand. I mean really $1000 for a dog because it has papers, elite puppy farmers!

You really have no idea at all do you?

PP and puppy farmers sell crossbreds with no health testing done for MORE than most purebred dog breeders sell their pups. $3,000 is what it will set you back from some pups bought from websites that breed designer dogs.

There's more to breeding dogs responsibly than owning a male and a female, making puppies and selling them 6 week later. It's DOGS that suffer when not bred responsibly.

Ideas about social status based on the dog you own or breed are about as accurate as ideas of masculinity based on the size of your wedding tackle.

Playing the 'snob' card on either side of the purebred v designer dog debate just tells me the person doing it knows SFA what they're talking about.

If you truly loved dogs, you'd only buy one from someone who gave a damn about the welfare of the parents and the future life of the pup. Only one group of breeders do that.

My last purebred show dog cost less than $1,000. I could have paid three times what I did for an oodle that went on to develop HD.. someone here did.

Edited February 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[mita]

LMAO pure bred dog breeder are just as high an mighty as horse people. I would have thought you were all in it because of your love of animals, not for public perception that yours is better because it wins shows, lol

Maybe if you weren't all just elite puppy farmers you would understand. I mean really $1000 for a dog because it has papers, elite puppy farmers!

Really....where did the 'you all' come from? If you believe that a whole heap of people are exactly the same....in a prejudical way....then what you're coming up with is a prejudice. And why do you use the word 'elite' as if it means something bad? It's a word that gets used in many spheres of human actiivity to denote possession of top skills.

I've made sure, that as a pet person, I've had dealings with registered breeders whose values I admire....like loving their breed & their own animals above all.

And I've pointed out earlier, how I took delivery last week of a tibbie from a breeder like that.....with the best of European bloodlines behind her....& I had to insist that this person take payment. Any payment. The best of homes is all she wanted for the little dog. And daily emails come from her, appreciating all the news about the settling in & asking for cuddles to be passed on.

It's been the same with every adult tibbie I've got from top registered breeders (you know possessing top skills does mark someone out as part of an elite). Money was the last thing on their mind.....only a good home.

Each time, I've insisted that they take money.

Edited February 11, 2010 by mita

[geo]

I agree, for the most part that pure bred breeders only have the animals best interests at heart, but why are so many pure breds so expensive?

If i got a pure bred dog from from somebody whos sole job was breeding, researching and putting money back into the breed through all the health testing, genetic profiling etc.. and they could break down the costs for me then i would happily pay top dollar for a dog, but when you see such a variation in prices with pure bred dogs it makes you wonder.. ie i've seen pure bred amstaffs range from $600 to $2000!! french bulldogs $2000!!

Now if you have a litter of 4-8 pups that's a lot of money that some are making (and i don't begrudge it one bit if they're doing all of the above)

But not all breeders do and i don't know how they can't justify $2000 per pup.

Don't get me wrong, i hate pet stores and would only ever rescue or select a reputeable breeder myself, but the unsuspecting public are sadly none the wiser when it comes to puppy peddlers,

[poodlefan]

I agree, for the most part that pure bred breeders only have the animals best interests at heart, but why are so many pure breds so expensive?

If i got a pure bred dog from from somebody whos sole job was breeding, researching and putting money back into the breed through all the health testing, genetic profiling etc.. and they could break down the costs for me then i would happily pay top dollar for a dog, but when you see such a variation in prices with pure bred dogs it makes you wonder.. ie i've seen pure bred amstaffs range from $600 to $2000!! french bulldogs $2000!!

Now if you have a litter of 4-8 pups that's a lot of money that some are making (and i don't begrudge it one bit if they're doing all of the above)

But not all breeders do and i don't know how they can't justify $2000 per pup.

Don't get me wrong, i hate pet stores and would only ever rescue or select a reputeable breeder myself, but the unsuspecting public are sadly none the wiser when it comes to puppy peddlers,

Most purebred dogs don't cost $2,000. Costs range.. stud fees, health testing, whelping, vaccination, microchipping, registration. Of course if you don't vaccinate, register, microchip, take the bitch or pups to the vet or bother health testing, all the purchase price is pure profit, even if it is $100's less.

Never ceases to amaze me that people seem reluctant to pay a reasonable price for a dog but don't blink an eyelid at paying more for a television or a car. I know which of those is likely to still be in the family after 10 years. Only one of those will be something most young children interact with every day.

Many people probably do more homework on which telly or white goods or car to buy than they do on which dog to buy. Would you buy a car that someone with zero mechanical knowledge had thrown together in a backyard garage from a mix of Toyota Landcruiser and Prius parts? People do that with dogs all the time.

I have never walked into a car yard on impulse and said.. "I"ll have the blue one, it looks cute" and bought it without test driving it. That's what people do in pet shops.

Edited February 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[centitout]

I must be a total snob then,i used to show horses AND i sell mine for $1400 But in that you get the cost of desexing refunded,m/c,reg papers,8 + weeks worth of socialising ALOT, most have basic lead training,info pack and for ever ongoing support- bloody hell,i will be driving once a week(300 km) to help an owner with her dog as he goes through the "teenage" period.See if you get that from an oodle breeder,or if the dog has a proven genetic condition,i will give you back your money ,take the dog back or give it to you to help with vet fees-try and get that from a back yarder,puppy famer,pet shop.

Most of the cross bred dogs i had when i was a kid were our vets tickets to new BMW'S.

Elite puppy farmers my arse-do you have the faintest idea of the amount of work/money/time and heartache that goes into producing a litter that you take pride in-then the ongoing costs involved in new bloodlines,health testing,showing,dog sports and just their normal everyday husbandry?? So someone like you can have a beautiful,healthy,sane PUREBRED pet.

You really havent a clue

[Buddy_N_Burt]

I must be a total snob then,i used to show horses AND i sell mine for $1400

Elite puppy farmers my arse-do you have the faintest idea of the amount of work/money/time and heartache that goes into producing a litter that you take pride in-then the ongoing costs involved in new bloodlines,health testing,showing,dog sports and just their normal everyday husbandry?? So someone like you can have a beautiful,healthy,sane PUREBRED pet.

You really havent a clue

Well I firmly believe you just comfirmed my argument. What you are saying there is that the cost is justified because you view it as a job.

Don't get me wrong, not for one second do I condone pet shops selling dogs, or any animal for that matter and firmly believe that it should be made law that they can not sell live animals. But seriously, have a look at what has been written to my poking, for the most part it consists of self noting and bitchiness.

[Buddy_N_Burt]

So someone like you can have a beautiful,healthy,sane PUREBRED pet.

You really havent a clue

This is verging in Nazi propgander! If it isn't pure it is worthless.

[SpikesPuppy]

So someone like you can have a beautiful,healthy,sane PUREBRED pet.

You really havent a clue

This is verging in Nazi propgander! If it isn't pure it is worthless.

If you don't want to pay the asking price for a pedigree dog, don't simple as that.

And BTW, one of our pedigree, show dogs cost $400. Find a pet shop dog for that price with lifetime support, full puppy pack etc. AND home delivery!!!

[poodlefan]

I must be a total snob then,i used to show horses AND i sell mine for $1400

Elite puppy farmers my arse-do you have the faintest idea of the amount of work/money/time and heartache that goes into producing a litter that you take pride in-then the ongoing costs involved in new bloodlines,health testing,showing,dog sports and just their normal everyday husbandry?? So someone like you can have a beautiful,healthy,sane PUREBRED pet.

You really havent a clue

Well I firmly believe you just comfirmed my argument. What you are saying there is that the cost is justified because you view it as a job.

Don't get me wrong, not for one second do I condone pet shops selling dogs, or any animal for that matter and firmly believe that it should be made law that they can not sell live animals. But seriously, have a look at what has been written to my poking, for the most part it consists of self noting and bitchiness.

I tried for facts.. you didn't comment on my post.

I paid $800 for my last dog. He was out of an imported sire and a champion bitch. He is a registered purebred. I've seen pups in my local petshop for twice that.

If I wanted an oodle from that wonderful vet out at Condoblin, I'll be paying a minimum of $1500 (could be more now) for a pup that the breeder cannot guarantee in terms of size or coat type and that won't be tested for a preventable genetic condition that could see it blind at 5.

Or I could go to the RSPCA like my friend and get a nice crossbred pup who was desexed at 6 weeks and now has HD.

Get over the purchase price issue. The long term costs of a poorly bred dog will outstrip any purchase price soon enough.

What's that saying.. "quality is remembered long after price is forgotten". Amen to that.

Edited February 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[Buddy_N_Burt]

You are all missing my point and proving it at the same time, lol

I never said anything about petshops except they should NOT be allowed to sell live animals. And it wasn't really about price, it is that most of you think you are somehow better because your dog is pure bred. A animal is a animal and all should be respected and loved the same, are you purebred?

Our last dog was a cross who was on death row at AWL, he was 3. We lost him in 2008 at the ripe old age of 16. We now have two shelter dogs who are 18months and 2, neither have any issue at all.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Buddy_N_Burt

[poodlefan]

You are all missing my point and proving it at the same time, lol

I never said anything about petshops except they should NOT be allowed to sell live animals. And it wasn't really about price, it is that most of you think you are somehow better because your dog is pure bred. A animal is a animal and all should be respected and loved the same, are you purebred?

No, I don't think I'm better. I think my dog is better off for going to a home that was fully prepared to manage him as an adult.

I bought my pup as a baby knowing how he'd turn out in terms of size, coat type and temperament. I knew who his mum and dad were and what they were like. I knew pretty much what he'd be like as an adult. How much food and exercise he'd need. What he'd be like to train and live with. I've had assistance and advice from his breeder, with whom I still talk regularly.

At my dog club I see people who bought a pup thinking it would be a certain type of adult and got a rude shock. They get dogs bigger, noisier, more energetic and harder to groom than they had planned for. Lots of those kinds of dogs end up in the pound. Their owners didn't realise that meeting mum is the best indicator of the sort of temperament their pup might inherit. Or they thought they'd get only the good points of two breeds and got something else.

The reasons people should buy registered purebred pups have nothing to do with racism:

1. They can select something that has a good certainty of growing into the kind of dog they want to own.

2. They can select a pup from a breeder that is knowledgeable about the breed and can assist them as it grows AND they can have some certainty that it will not inherit heartbreaking but preventable genetic health conditions.

Edited February 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[SpikesPuppy]

You are all missing my point and proving it at the same time, lol

I never said anything about petshops except they should NOT be allowed to sell live animals. And it wasn't really about price, it is that most of you think you are somehow better because your dog is pure bred. A animal is a animal and all should be respected and loved the same, are you purebred?

Our last dog was a cross who was on death row at AWL, he was 3. We lost him in 2008 at the ripe old age of 16. We now have two shelter dogs who are 18months and 2, neither have any issue at all.

I don't, and have had mutts and unregistered pure breeds in the past but now, in my life, I have found that a predictable, pedigree dog who's parents & other relatives I know is much more suited to myself and my lifestyle. I know what I want and I get it

I'm of "Unknown parentage" myself

[Buddy_N_Burt]

Too hard, not playing

[poodlefan]

Too hard, not playing