Kerry Blue Or A Poodle?

[poodlefan]

Sheridan:

While I agree that kerries should only be owned by those who understand them, calling them 'fanciers dogs' rather implies that they're not for pet people.

That was my intention Sheridan.

I don't think Kerries are what the average pet buyer is looking for. Most seem to want an easy going, biddible friendly dog that doesn't have any particular management requirements and is up for a trip to the park for a picnic and a run on the dog beach.

Left, as many pets are, untrained and poorly managed they can be a nightmare. One terrorises the street a friend of mine lives in. It's not the dog's fault but the owners.

Too much dog for someone simply looking for a pet for the kids IMO. No doubt others will disagree.

[poodlefan]

Dogsearch:

These are our criteria: non-shedding, medium sized, able to be trusted in a off-leash in a dog park, smart, not super high-energy. For context we have previously owned a dog-aggressive dog that required at least an hour of exercise a day and preferred 2 hours plus. We loved him but he was hard work and we don't have time in our lives for this sort of dog right now.

In my experience, young Standard poodles are VERY high energy... they leap, bound and run with great vigour. They need consistent firm boundaries not to become teenage monsters. 20 minutes around the block a couple of times a week is not going to keep such a dog exercised.

If you're not up for the commitment of obedience training and exercising a LARGE athletic dog, pick another breed. Perhaps a smaller poodle?

Edited February 2, 2010 by poodlefan

[Sheridan]

Sheridan:

While I agree that kerries should only be owned by those who understand them, calling them 'fanciers dogs' rather implies that they're not for pet people.

That was my intention Sheridan.

I don't think Kerries are what the average pet buyer is looking for. Most seem to want an easy going, biddible friendly dog that doesn't have any particular management requirements and is up for a trip to the park for a picnic and a run on the dog beach.

Left, as many pets are, untrained and poorly managed they can be a nightmare. One terrorises the street a friend of mine lives in. It's not the dog's fault but the owners.

Too much dog for someone simply looking for a pet for the kids IMO. No doubt others will disagree.

I'm a pet person, poodlefan. Not every kerry is a showdog. Most aren't. Most live in pet homes with average people. Indeed, I would describe myself as an average pet owner. I have just been fortunate enough to live most of my life with the Irish terrier breeds and know what they're like and can thus describe the particular type of person who should belong to them. Yes, they require a particular type of person but then most breeds do. The terrorising scenario could be any dog. Rather than get a particular type of breed, I would argue that the person you describe simply shouldn't have a dog at all.

[poodlemum]

Dogsearch:

These are our criteria: non-shedding, medium sized, able to be trusted in a off-leash in a dog park, smart, not super high-energy. For context we have previously owned a dog-aggressive dog that required at least an hour of exercise a day and preferred 2 hours plus. We loved him but he was hard work and we don't have time in our lives for this sort of dog right now.

In my experience, young Standard poodles are VERY high energy... they leap, bound and run with great vigour. They need consistent firm boundaries not to become teenage monsters. 20 minutes around the block a couple of times a week is not going to keep such a dog exercised.

If you're not up for the commitment of obedience training and exercising a LARGE athletic dog, pick another breed. Perhaps a smaller poodle?

This is ABSOLUTELY true!! Add to that the fact that Poodles are very intelligent dogs and, if you don't keep them occupied, they'll find something (usually naughty and/or destructive) to occupy themselves.

[Greytmate]

I think you should look at the mini poodle rather than the standard. In my opinion the minis tend towards 'cheeky' and the standards tend towards being a little 'stubborn'. But it might just be that naughty behaviour in little dogs is easier to deal with than naughty behaviour in big strong dogs.

[shells]

I was going to reply Minature Poodle (middle sized Poodle) - still a good hearty size for kids, running and sporty activities and happy with a good walk once a day (and you can easily fit 2 on your bed )

[Monah]

If you're not up for the commitment of obedience training and exercising a LARGE athletic dog, pick another breed. Perhaps a smaller poodle?

This is ABSOLUTELY true!! Add to that the fact that Poodles are very intelligent dogs and, if you don't keep them occupied, they'll find something (usually naughty and/or destructive) to occupy themselves.

I'd ditto this for PWDs too :D although they are not as large as Standard poodles.

Re Kerrys, I researched and visited some whilst looking at Lakelands too. Although I was brought up with a Patterdale who was very feisty, and am very well able to handle giant schnauzers, wolfies (softies) and gundogs, I was a LITTLE OMG! at the Kerrys. They are such magnificent lookiing animals and lovely with their owners, but for a non terrier person, a little out there. If you've already had terrier experience with less feisty dogs you would cope better than going in the deep end first time. Just my opinion.

Also, always keep in mind that terriers has ENORMOUS teeth :D Much larger canines than say even a cattle dog or large dog, MASSIVE toothypegs for a dog their size. My little lakelands would smile! and scare people to death

[Sheridan]

I'd ditto this for PWDs too :D although they are not as large as Standard poodles.

Re Kerrys, I researched and visited some whilst looking at Lakelands too. Although I was brought up with a Patterdale who was very feisty, and am very well able to handle giant schnauzers, wolfies (softies) and gundogs, I was a LITTLE OMG! at the Kerrys. They are such magnificent lookiing animals and lovely with their owners, but for a non terrier person, a little out there. If you've already had terrier experience with less feisty dogs you would cope better than going in the deep end first time. Just my opinion.

Also, always keep in mind that terriers has ENORMOUS teeth :D Much larger canines than say even a cattle dog or large dog, MASSIVE toothypegs for a dog their size. My little lakelands would smile! and scare people to death

On that one, here's a kerry badger trial in Ireland. It could be subtitled, 'The badger's mine; I ain't letting go.' See the size of the kerry and the size of the badger. That's a dead badger at the end.

[Rascalmyshadow]

Reading your criteria I don't think a standard poodle would suit, they are high energy, very intelligent dogs that like to have a job to do. They should be walked/ran every day. Many of them have a high prey drive so will chase small animals if not well trained.

Their grooming is hard work and many so you must be prepared to put in the time and dollars.

A miniature would be a better choice they are a great size and much easier to have around, I have also found them to be more social.

I also believe a schnauzer would probably be more suitable.

[megan_]

I think a mini schnauzer would be suitable, but the standard is a whole lot more of dog!

[mushka]

Thank you for all your replies. I found some of them mildly offensive but I am sure they were well-intentioned. I do not want a dog "just for the kids" - the dog is for me but I have a family and so I need to find a breed that is most likely to be a good match for all of us. I also have no intention of neglecting a dog in the backyard without training, grooming or exercise.

I read on an American breed info page that there was a single breeder of Kerry's in America who recommends taking them to dog parks and apparently she breeds with this in mind. On various other pages there seems to be a debate about the temperament of the breed with most comments defending the Kerry as feisty rather than aggressive - I did not read between the lines that this a more challenging breed with more fire than most terriers. Thank you for your honest comments on this.

The schnauzer suggestion surprised me - the breed descriptions for these dogs seem to ring with warnings about the exercise requirements and dog-dominance of this breed. I think mini-schnauzers are super cute but would prefer a larger dog. I have met quite a few wheaten terriers and I would describe them as rather boisterous (but not particularly feisty or aggressive) with a definite blonde ditziness to them. The description of the Kerry as the more serious cousin of the Wheaten was one of the reasons I had been considering a Kerry. Maybe the Wheaten's I've met were less feisty than usual for the breed or perhaps the Kerry is actually very different to the Wheaten?

I would be concerned about the Lagotti being a newly popular breed but I have never heard of them and will definitely do some research.

[Danois]

Dogsearch:

These are our criteria: non-shedding, medium sized, able to be trusted in a off-leash in a dog park, smart, not super high-energy. For context we have previously owned a dog-aggressive dog that required at least an hour of exercise a day and preferred 2 hours plus. We loved him but he was hard work and we don't have time in our lives for this sort of dog right now.

In my experience, young Standard poodles are VERY high energy... they leap, bound and run with great vigour. They need consistent firm boundaries not to become teenage monsters. 20 minutes around the block a couple of times a week is not going to keep such a dog exercised.

If you're not up for the commitment of obedience training and exercising a LARGE athletic dog, pick another breed. Perhaps a smaller poodle?

Re high energy - this was not something I knew until recently. I know 3 from the park and they like a quick burst and then settle. All the ones I have seen at shows are calm and sedate.

And then I met a gorgeous 14 month old at a show recently - holy heck that thing had energy to burn and the zoomies were hilarious.

It was certainly a side of standard poodles I had never seen.

[Dogsfevr]

The schnauzer suggestion surprised me - the breed descriptions for these dogs seem to ring with warnings about the exercise requirements and dog-dominance of this breed. I think mini-schnauzers are super cute but would prefer a larger dog. I have met quite a few wheaten terriers and I would describe them as rather boisterous (but not particularly feisty or aggressive) with a definite blonde ditziness to them. The description of the Kerry as the more serious cousin of the Wheaten was one of the reasons I had been considering a Kerry. Maybe the Wheaten's I've met were less feisty than usual for the breed or perhaps the Kerry is actually very different to the Wheaten?

Kerries & wheatens are very different.

If boisterous is an issue?? then i wouldnt be buying a std poodle.

The wheatens i have meet,handled ,groomed & boarded have all been wonderful dogs who have personality ,highly intelligent ,not fiesty or aggressive,As far as im aware wheatens are part of the terrier grp that shouldnt spar off,.

There are alot of wheatens doing great things in the obedience world.From what i have read they are also highly used as therapy dogs due to there very biddable nature

We have owned 2 Kerries & again they are loyal & loving but in a different way,they are always on watch & i would best describe them as a dog always switched on where the wheatens are more laid back .

Stds & giant schnauzers shouldnt be dog dominant BUT they both are from working dog backgrounds & as such need owners who understand this,They are working dog who with the right owners make great pets,

They giant & std have a different nature to the mini who are now companion animals

[SpikesPuppy]

Thank you for all your replies. I found some of them mildly offensive but I am sure they were well-intentioned. I do not want a dog "just for the kids" - the dog is for me but I have a family and so I need to find a breed that is most likely to be a good match for all of us. I also have no intention of neglecting a dog in the backyard without training, grooming or exercise.

I read on an American breed info page that there was a single breeder of Kerry's in America who recommends taking them to dog parks and apparently she breeds with this in mind. On various other pages there seems to be a debate about the temperament of the breed with most comments defending the Kerry as feisty rather than aggressive - I did not read between the lines that this a more challenging breed with more fire than most terriers. Thank you for your honest comments on this.

The schnauzer suggestion surprised me - the breed descriptions for these dogs seem to ring with warnings about the exercise requirements and dog-dominance of this breed. I think mini-schnauzers are super cute but would prefer a larger dog. I have met quite a few wheaten terriers and I would describe them as rather boisterous (but not particularly feisty or aggressive) with a definite blonde ditziness to them. The description of the Kerry as the more serious cousin of the Wheaten was one of the reasons I had been considering a Kerry. Maybe the Wheaten's I've met were less feisty than usual for the breed or perhaps the Kerry is actually very different to the Wheaten?

I would be concerned about the Lagotti being a newly popular breed but I have never heard of them and will definitely do some research.

May I ask why you specify non-shedding? Is it due to allergies or is it more that you don't like dog hair around the place?

[mushka]

boisterous - I like boisterous...aren't almost all young dogs boisterous? It totally makes sense to me that the wheatens are very different to Kerry's. I guess I read too much into the "blonde cousin" thing.

non-shedding - husband hates dog hair.

[SpikesPuppy]

boisterous - I like boisterous...aren't almost all young dogs boisterous? It totally makes sense to me that the wheatens are very different to Kerry's. I guess I read too much into the "blonde cousin" thing.

non-shedding - husband hates dog hair.

Cool, I understand that (I can't stand cat hair ). Was gonna suggest looking into Border Terriers (terrier spirit & charm but social with other dogs) but they do shed a bit.

[Sheridan]

Thank you for all your replies. I found some of them mildly offensive but I am sure they were well-intentioned. I do not want a dog "just for the kids" - the dog is for me but I have a family and so I need to find a breed that is most likely to be a good match for all of us. I also have no intention of neglecting a dog in the backyard without training, grooming or exercise.

I read on an American breed info page that there was a single breeder of Kerry's in America who recommends taking them to dog parks and apparently she breeds with this in mind. On various other pages there seems to be a debate about the temperament of the breed with most comments defending the Kerry as feisty rather than aggressive - I did not read between the lines that this a more challenging breed with more fire than most terriers. Thank you for your honest comments on this.

The schnauzer suggestion surprised me - the breed descriptions for these dogs seem to ring with warnings about the exercise requirements and dog-dominance of this breed. I think mini-schnauzers are super cute but would prefer a larger dog. I have met quite a few wheaten terriers and I would describe them as rather boisterous (but not particularly feisty or aggressive) with a definite blonde ditziness to them. The description of the Kerry as the more serious cousin of the Wheaten was one of the reasons I had been considering a Kerry. Maybe the Wheaten's I've met were less feisty than usual for the breed or perhaps the Kerry is actually very different to the Wheaten?

I would be concerned about the Lagotti being a newly popular breed but I have never heard of them and will definitely do some research.

Dogsearch, you'll have noted that I have a wheaten and a kerry. What you have to remember about both the wheaten and the kerry is their original as the all-purpose farm dog and vermin hunter. 'May kill small animals.' Did you take a look at that video I posted the link to? Kerry vs badger = dead badger. Sure, wheatens can be ditzier than the kerry. I've had two wheatens and two kerries. Of the two that I currently have, my wheaten is the most stubborn dog I've ever come across. He has to decide to do something; he cannot be persuaded. Sure, he's a dopey blonde laughin' boy, just as Mini is a dopey blue laughin' girl, but of the two, she is far more biddable. My previous kerry wasn't socialised and I would have described him as dog aggressive. My previous wheaten was attacked once by something very large x something very large and thereafter instituted a first strike policy that made George Bush look like Mahatma Gandhi. My current wheaten is old and his nickname of Grumpy is well deserved, to the extent that I give people a severe lecture on how to behave around him. Of all of them, my kerry Mini, is the most bombproof but I always remember that she's a kerry. I think Merijigs comment about various kerry people, particularly overseas, not wanting to talk about temperament is spot on. The kerry is certainly feisty which can turn into aggression but dog park stuff I'd be very wary about particularly given some of the horror stories on DOL.

I'll note that non-shedding equals lots of grooming, particularly for the wheaten.

Feel free to PM me or Merijigs (she offered in the Dog Breeds 101 thread) if you have particular questions.

[becks]

HI becks, re schnauzers, yes lovely, I would not rec. them in 3 sizes though. Giants are not anything like the smaller schnauzers, they are more herding/guarding/police etc type dogs and don't have much in common at all with the smaller ones. Also need a pretty confident owner, but are great dogs and I adored my giants to bits.

I have a mini at flyball, and SORRY!! he drives me nuts (appologies, appologies :D ) I know this is probalby to do with training, but OMG! he never stops the excited barking etc. at everything. :D

There are very few standards around, so hard to get.

I am well aware of the temperaments of the breeds, I live with Giants and miniatures as well as showing, judging and working them!

Here are a few photos of a group of schnauzers who had never met before

[becks]

that group included 3 stud dogs

[Monah]

Sorry Becks, lovely dogs!!! nice pics. Nice giant, are you in Aust? I see a lot of the Wulfgar giants here at shows.

I didn't mean that you 'dont' know' about them, just that maybe the OP might think from the 3 size suggestion, that they are the same, just different sizes, which seems to be what a lot of people think, even those who already have minis.

My giants lived with babies, sheep and cats and chooks:D and other dogs, with no issues at all. They were very protective of the kids, lovely.

I do think however that they are quite different from minis so if the OP met a mini I would not like them to think a giant is the same type of dog as they are extremely strong and energetic (as are minis, bundles of energy) and the stripping

I did not mean any offence and appologise.

I've never met a schnauzer that doesn't like other dogs. :D Just that the mini I know BARKS a LOT. Giants normally(i'm sure there are exceptions) are not big barkers.

dogsearch, Lagottos are a very old breed, very nice dogs.

I still think if you like the look of the Kerry, that a Lakeland may fit the bill, although it seems they may be a little small for you? Welsh terriers are lovely too.

Sheridan, I couldn't watch the clip, badger lover here I'm glad you mentioned about the dead badger so I didn't get traumatised. Terrier teeth are certainly lethal :D But then this is what they were bred for, and owners need to keep this in mind so it's good to remind us.