Barking Problem

[melbell45]

hi,

we have a (nearly) 6 month old golden retriever and we are having problems with him barking, he doesn't bark at people or things but there are times he needs to be put out the back (while we eat for example) but he just barks constantly as soon as he is put out there, we have tried putting him out there with a stuffed kong or pigs ear but he either isn't interested in them or eats it and comes straight back to the door and barks again to be let in. he also gets put into the laundry (where he sleeps at night) at these times but again just barks and barks, we have 2 small children and there are just some times we can't have him inside with us.

thanks for any advice

[poodlefan]

Buy a crate and crate train him.

[Sandra777]

My guess would be he has trained you to let him in when he barks. A short sharp shock won't hurt him if he is otherwise bold and happy - instead of opening the door and letting him in, open the door and throw a jug of cold water in his face, then shut the door again. He is getting to an age when he will try the boundaries and will definitely train you if you don't train him first

There are no doubt many more subtle training methods, but IME with a bold and happy puppy, one short quick shock often does the job just as well.

[melbell45]

poodlefan: thanks, i don't know much about crate traingin so will have a read up about it

sandra777: thanks also, you are exactly right, there is only so much barking we (and the neighbours) can stand to hear so i do let him back in so i know that is rewarding him for barking as he sees it gets him what he wants. he is not a shy timid dog at all so i will try the cold water trick !

[Dogsfevr]

So he is generally put out when all the family are together,when food is about ??When its more exciting inside ??

Does he get placed outside when there is no reason to be put out???

Does he have access outside or do you have to let him in/out??

The dog is confused ,go back to basics & encouraging independence.

What is his daily routine?/exercise etc etc

[corvus]

Aww, he just wants to be with you. Why you would throw a jug of water in a dog's face for expressing himself is beyond me. My dogs freak out when they get put in another room as well. Who would blame them? We are the world to them and while we taught them to accept it as puppies we got slack and didn't maintain it. That's our fault, not theirs. Why punish them for our mistakes?

The way to do this without punishing is small steps. From scratch. Go through a door and close it between you and him for a few seconds, then open it again. Work up to 5 seconds, then 10 seconds, then 20 seconds, then 30 seconds, then toss a bunch of kibble on the floor and leave him for 60 seconds.... That kinda thing. The fact that he won't eat a pig's ear or Kong without you is quite touching when you think about it. Not good for him because it means he's stressed out, but there's no point making him more stressed by punishing him.

[melbell45]

his routine is to go outside in the mornings do a wee and have a play while we have breakfast and then he comes inside with us, he hangs out with us for the day, he goes for a walk in the evening.

i understand that he wants to be in with us, he is a lovely boy but huge and bosterious and i don't understand how im meant to have him in with us always when at the moment he is uncontrollable, jumping all over the kids and eating their food if i leave him inside while they eat. he has been to obedience training since he was 9 weeks old and he knows the basic commands but he just gets so excited. i guess this is where the crate comes in and working on making him more independant (thanks corvus for your suggestions) !

thanks for the replies

[Dogsfevr]

his routine is to go outside in the mornings do a wee and have a play while we have breakfast and then he comes inside with us, he hangs out with us for the day, he goes for a walk in the evening.

He needs to learn to be away from you more & be more independent.

My dogs love me but they also now when the door is shut to go & have fun.

It sounds like you need to start re establishing yourself to your rules not his.

If he isnt listening there he needs to learn again & at present hes learning that bad behaviour is rewarded.

he is a baby so yes he will get excited but shutting him outside or crating wont solve the issue,its time to start teaching the next level

[persephone]

teenagers- wren't they wonderful??

Good to read that you have been taking him to lesons- however

obedience training does NOT teach a dog YOUR house rules

As the owners it is up to you entirely to educate your puppy.

from day one, the rules should be instituted.

Praise for being calm, ignoring food, not jumping... time out etc for infractions.

If you have pup on leash with you indoors, he cannot make these mistakes- and you can teach him to stay by your side on his bed, to not bounce/jump, and to admire food, without eating it.

have a read of this, too

LINK

and... you may be interested in this ebook - has lots of useful information in !

LINK

Edited February 1, 2010 by persephone

[melbell45]

showdog thanks for your reply

persephone: thanks for those links, i will have a good read of them

[Serket]

Hi MellBell - I think we need updated photos in the golden retriever thread by the way :D

I think that by locking him outside when 'fun' things are happening, it makes it all the more exciting so that when he does come inside he's all worked up and bouncy, which means you need to put him out again, and a vicious cycle is begun.

Can you put him on a lead, on his bed, on the floor near the kitchen/living room where he can see everyone and therefore feel included (tie the lead to something sturdy so he has to stay put), but not jump/steal food - and then teach him to go to his bed and stay there so when he's inside you can just send him to his bed.

What I found helped with Gypsy was a 'time out' pen - she jumped up, she went into the pen - as soon as he does something wrong, put him in the pen and leave him there for a minute or too until he calms down, let him back out, but put him right back in if he does it again. Works if they're just a bit hyped up as well. They don't get let out of the pen until they're quiet and calm.

Have you had your obedience instructor come out for a home visit? I'm sure she'd be happy to come out and see exactly what's going wrong and help you find solutions.

[Bubitty]

Completely agree with Serket about the fact that locking him outside when fun things happen, makes him even more excitable when he is let inside. I took the easy road and put my pup outside continuously because she was too hyper and frankly I couldn’t handle it! The result was that she was bouncing off the walls whenever I let her inside. So I buckled down, put up with the bounciness and trained her that being calm inside earns MANY rewards and that being inside was no big deal and quite “ordinary”.

Basically I would do several sessions a day where I would make her sit on a mat and feed her. I’d make her sit for longer and longer and feed her. I would let her hang out with me in the house and whenever she was settled and sitting peacefully I’d come over and pat her and shove treats at her.

I’d cook in the kitchen, have her next to me, and when she found a corner to plonk down and was calm and just watching me, she’d get praise and food.

It was quite exhausting and a lot of work and you feel like you lose your normal life to them but at 8.5 months I now have a golden puppy that I can trust completely inside. She is naturally a very bouncy and exuberant pup, but she finds it within herself to remain calm and does not steal or do anything she shouldn’t.

I know that at some stages it feels like they are just feral and impossible but they do settle down! There is a calm, well mannered adult in there somewhere! We just need to teach them!

Good luck!

Edited February 2, 2010 by Bub

[melbell45]

hi Serket i haven't been to the golden retriever thread in ages but will see what i can do about pics ! thanks for the advice, i tried tying him to something sturdy today (have tried before), he was right near us but the whole time he was there he just barked and barked, i am organising for the trainer to come later this week

hi bub also, i understand he is so hyper when let inside because he is so excited but it is so hard to deal with especially with small children around that he constantly knocks over in his enthusiasm ! at the moment he doesn't seem to be able to relax inside with us, its only when he gets put in the laundry he is able to calm himself and lay down and go to sleep so i need to work on that, thanks for your thoughts

[persephone]

The trick is to not 'tie him to something'!!

the way to be in control is to have the leash either in your hand, or attached to your waist!!!

Then- every move he makes is with your permission (or not)

hard work for a couple of days , but well worth it.

It improves communication, too

[melbell45]

see this is whats confusing, one of you says tie him to something or put him in a crate and another says no have him attached to me, i obviously have no idea what im doing with him and i still don't know what to do with all the comflicting advice. the trainer is coming thurs or friday so will hopefully be able to give me a good plan to follow

[persephone]

Sorry for confusing you

The umbilical leash thing is one I have done, and one I like- dog carries on when not with you, but is not educated enough to be with you.

Ok.

So dog is attached to you as you go about your daily chores.... dog is happy- cos he is with you.

You are happy , because dog is not being noisy.

Dog is happy because he is learning to observe your body language closely- and understand exactly what you want him to do.

You are happy because you can provide INSTANT feedback to the good things dog does - and guide him away from behaviours you don't want.

Dog is happy because things are much clearer :D

Of course- dog needs to be comfortable in his own skin, and happy to be outside...

however, a dog who knows the house rules, and is well behaved inside is a delight and a much calmer dog

Good luck with the trainer later in the week!

[Nekhbet]

easy enough dog is either attached to you, or if you cannot handle that for that moment (like not safe while cooking etc) put him in a crate to watch you. Crate during meal times (great habit to have too)