Arghhhhhh What To Do... Is 4 Too Many?

[GoldenWei]

At the moment we have 3 dogs:

Golden male 12yrs

Golden male 3yrs

LH Wei female 8.5wks

We have been looking at getting a third dog for quite a while now, said dog is to be a show dog. Initially we were looking at a different breed to what we ended up getting last week (LH Wei). Both breeds however are quite similar in that they require the similar amts of exercise, both about the same size however they are in two different groups. Show ring prep for the other breed is virtually nil, a bath is about it. Both breeds I would be extremely happy to own.

We initially met a breeder for the first breed quite a while ago and we were both very happy with them, we were just waiting until the bitches came into heat etc. Contact had been quite sparse, with this breeder, and I was beginning to think that we wouldn't be getting one. The last contact I had with her was that they had only bred one bitch, and they didn't think she was having very many puppies. Due to things I won't go into, I wanted this year to be different to last year, I had a crap year last year. Things were looking doubtful on the first breed as to whether or not I would get a show dog. So, I started looking around at other breeders, I found one and almost took a male of said breed, we were after female initially. I didn't go ahead with it. I started looking into the other breed on our list a bit more and almost instantly found an available show puppy. So, naturally I thought ok, here is my chance, I may not get another one. So, we bought said puppy. I don't regret getting her, she's a gorgeous girl and at the moment so well behaved, unlike my younger golden when he was a puppy.

Here is my problem, the first breeder has emailed me and said that they have puppies, she told me what sex and colours etc. She didn't have many. She didn't say so, but there may not be a show puppy there for us anyway. It's still not looking very promising. Initially when we got Willow I thought well if X comes back to us and says we have a show bitch for us then I'll say thanks but no thanks (I wouldn't put it like that though). I am now debating thinking it may not be such a bad idea to get both. Yes I have read the threads on getting two puppies at the same time, and most of the time its not a good idea. These are my pro's /counter-arguments:

1: Puppies may bond with each other rather than humans - In our case I am not entirely sure that would happen. The puppies would only be about 2 months apart in age difference, Willow especially is very human orientated, and she isn't a dogs dog. Not sure what the personality of the other would be, but the breed isn't as human orientated as Willow.

2: Willow has very strongly attached herself to me, IF we did go ahead and get another puppy off this other breeder the puppy would belong to my partner. I'd still show her/him, BUT my partner would do most of the training for obedience etc... unless of course I forced them into the ring (which probably won't happen)

3: We are happy with 3 dogs, once our eldest golden goes to the bridge we would still get another dog. We expect him to only have another couple of years in him at the most, he is quite healthy and a happy boy but he has slowed right down over the last year, he has a bit of arthritis.

4: At the moment our eldest is having minor issues with Willow, I won't trust him with her without supervision, he hasn't hurt her, but has shown her that he is boss... a bit of barking and growling at her, scares her but has never physically touched her. For this reason I won't let her sleep in the same room as both the two goldens, the younger one is fine with her. If we went ahead and got another puppy, we could then have both goldens in the same room, and the two puppies in a crate/puppy pen together. We have two separate yards so the goldens could be in the big yard, and the puppies in the smaller yard while we are at work.

5: If one of the puppies doesn't turn out to be show quality, atleast the other might.

6: Showing wise, one is at the beginning of a group, the other at the end, BUT they are in two different groups.

Cons:

1: Two puppies.... could be a nightmare.. destruction wise

2: Cost of food/vaccinations etc

3: Walking 4 dogs will be difficult, not to mention time consuming... having said that, two puppies wouldn't be walked for long until they are older. Eldest golden doesn't need much walking either.

4: Spreading the love amoung the 4 of them.

Our 12 year old is no problem at all (except for the occasional growl at the little one), the 3 year old is very well behaved as well. It would just be the two younger ones that would need a lot of work. We also initially asked for a female, but I think two girls close in age would be a bigger risk then 3 boys.

Anyway, none of this may eventuate, if it doesn't we will wait until their next litter and get one then, by then I would say there would be atleast 12 months age difference between the 2 of them....

Given the above circumstances... is it asking for too much trouble to take on another puppy, or could it work out ok?

We had been waiting for 12months for this puppy, & I've been wanting to show for about 5 years, everything was ok and on plan until about a month ago when it looked more & more like we wouldn't be getting one. Yes we probably should of waited, but we didn't.

ok, flame suit now strapped on.

[poodlefan]

Wait or return the LHW. No way would I be trying to manage two puppies and a senior dog. Its the impact on the older dog that would stop me as much as the issues of raising two youngsters.

Edited February 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[Parkeyre]

I like that you've really thought it through.

Um.. Personally I think with the older dog having issues with the pup and your trust being not 100% I would wait.

You owe it to your older dog to be able to have a peacefull time. Just my opinion though.

[GoldenWei]

Wait or return the LHW. No way would I be trying to manage two puppies and a senior dog. Its the impact on the older dog that would stop me as much as the issues of raising two youngsters.

Ok, that's a good point. He wouldn't be left alone with them. If they two eldest and two youngest weren't in separate yards, during the day, I'd more than likely keep the old man inside while we are at work, with the other 3 running each other ragged. I guess though that I haven't really thought about the stress that it may cause him just having 1 puppy around, let alone two.

I won't be returning the LHW, so it would be the wait if we didn't go ahead.

[poodlefan]

Wait or return the LHW. No way would I be trying to manage two puppies and a senior dog. Its the impact on the older dog that would stop me as much as the issues of raising two youngsters.

Ok, that's a good point. He wouldn't be left alone with them. If they two eldest and two youngest weren't in separate yards, during the day, I'd more than likely keep the old man inside while we are at work, with the other 3 running each other ragged. I guess though that I haven't really thought about the stress that it may cause him just having 1 puppy around, let alone two.

I won't be returning the LHW, so it would be the wait if we didn't go ahead.

Picture a 13 year old GR with two 18 month old LHWs... I'd not do it to the old boy. He's likely to get knocked around a fair bit.

ETA: Just noted new dog would not be a LHW. What breed are you considering?

Edited February 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[Bundyburger]

I would wait, besides the breeder may not sell you the other puppy since you already have a an 8wk old..

I wouldn't put the old dog through it.. and realisitcally do you have time for two?

[GoldenWei]

Picture a 13 year old GR with two 18 month old LHWs... I'd not do it to the old boy. He's likely to get knocked around a fair bit.

ETA: Just noted new dog would not be a LHW. What breed are you considering?

Something with similar exercise requirements..... a dally

[GoldenWei]

I would wait, besides the breeder may not sell you the other puppy since you already have a an 8wk old..

I wouldn't put the old dog through it.. and realisitcally do you have time for two?

Yes, this is something I would have to talk to the breeder about as well. If it was just me, then no I wouldn't have time for two, however, there are two of us, yes we'd both be training both of them, so they would both theoretically obey either of us, but I would take the lead on Willow, and OH would take it on the other little one.

Its all hypothetical anyway at the moment, there may not be one available. My biggest concerns are cost and now whether the old boy could handle it. Thanks, you have all given me a lot to think about, thinking we probably should stick with plan A and wait.

[poodlefan]

I would wait, besides the breeder may not sell you the other puppy since you already have a an 8wk old..

I wouldn't put the old dog through it.. and realisitcally do you have time for two?

Yes, this is something I would have to talk to the breeder about as well. If it was just me, then no I wouldn't have time for two, however, there are two of us, yes we'd both be training both of them, so they would both theoretically obey either of us, but I would take the lead on Willow, and OH would take it on the other little one.

Its all hypothetical anyway at the moment, there may not be one available. My biggest concerns are cost and now whether the old boy could handle it. Thanks, you have all given me a lot to think about, thinking we probably should stick with plan A and wait.

Waiting is hard but I tell myself there will always be beautiful dogs..

I have two seniors. There will be no more puppies in their lives - they've done their fair share of puppy training and can live without the stress now.

Edited February 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[GoldenWei]

Yes, if we didn't have Willow, waiting would be a lot harder, but I think given the amount of training Willow will need, the time will go very quickly anyway. She's a sweet little thing, and is quite good at keeping out of the old mans way I think she has that personality to back away straight away so hopefully she won't cause him any issues.

[Tiggy]

Waiting is hard but I tell myself there will always be beautiful dogs..

I have two seniors. There will be no more puppies in their lives - they've done their fair share of puppy training and can live without the stress now.

Isn't it just the sweetest thing when the oldies 'train' the youngsters . My old boy Buster has been through two puppies now and even with the youngest being 2 he's still a pain in the butt but Buster is so sweet with him.

[poodlefan]

Ted is 12 and about 1/3 Howard's weight but he's still happy to pull Howard into line.. and Darcy the six year old gets told too. ;)

He's still the boss of those two.

But its not all discipline.. Ted still plays when the mood takes him. That's him with Howard behind.

Edited February 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[Dogsfevr]

The first point i would say is dont get caught thinking seperate groups so showing will be easy.

Groups often clash with distances apart.if your wanting to show both without a helper yes it could/would be hard .

havinh shown breeds in sep groups for years at present i am just doingthe one group due to clashing & relying on good helpers to hand my dogs too.

Unless your very show savvy pups need a tad more patience to settle so if you have to rush from ring to ring & your not a confident dog handler your dog will feel it asap & it be a waste of time.

[GoldenWei]

The first point i would say is dont get caught thinking seperate groups so showing will be easy.

Groups often clash with distances apart.if your wanting to show both without a helper yes it could/would be hard .

havinh shown breeds in sep groups for years at present i am just doingthe one group due to clashing & relying on good helpers to hand my dogs too.

Unless your very show savvy pups need a tad more patience to settle so if you have to rush from ring to ring & your not a confident dog handler your dog will feel it asap & it be a waste of time.

Yes, was thinking this as well... my thoughts on that would be, Dally would go first, should have plenty of time spare for Wei... however, on the off chance that Dally had to go in for group, I would probably need a helper or get partner to take one in as it may clash with the wei. Sweepstakes would be difficult then I was thinking, well I could just show only one in any show, that way they wouldn't get stale as a youngster... and no... I am not a confident dog handler. Having said that, I would of killed (not literally) to be able to help people out at show's prior to getting my first show puppy. I was too chicken to ask in the show forum though if anyone wanted help in return for giving me experience.

[JulesP]

I've now got 4 dogs However I am not sure that I think having a Dally & a LHW puppy at the same time is a good idea. Both breeds are a lot of dog and need a fair bit of time for training. They are generally not easy.

I've had quite a few couples come through my class with 2 pups at the same time but they have all been little fluffies that have been pretty biddable. The couples have been super dedicated too and have done a great job with training.

I would wait until your old boy goes.

Funnily I got Amber as I like having 3 dogs and my old border (15yo) is really on limited time. I am actually really liking having the 4. Is very easy to put 2 in the house and leave 2 out. I have a heap of room too though.

[GoldenWei]

yeah see that's the thing, we have gone from a 500sqm block to 3/4 of an acre, and I feel like we have a heap of room now too, as well as having two large living areas and 4 bedrooms.

Willow is very biddable AT THE MOMENT, this may change. Atleast half the litter were quite timid. Looking at Willow and comparing her to Phoenix at the same age, as long as she doesn't change too much, I think Phoenix would of been a bigger handful then what Willow will be. I'm seriously waiting for her to go psycho puppy... yes she does her zoomies, and she chews bark, but Phoenix at the same age was trying to hump Indy any chance he got... yes at 8 weeks of age!!!! I was forever trying to pull him off. Willow is nothing like him!!! Not that I am complaining.

Jules, I was always against 4 dogs, but then I started thinking hard about this other litter of Dally pups, and thinking, well having 4 does have its advantages... ie. can have two in and two out or in separate yards. Yes you are right though, they are both a lot of dog! Anyway, I think the negatives may outway the positives with regards to two.

[Aspyre]

The first point i would say is dont get caught thinking seperate groups so showing will be easy.

Groups often clash with distances apart.if your wanting to show both without a helper yes it could/would be hard .

havinh shown breeds in sep groups for years at present i am just doingthe one group due to clashing & relying on good helpers to hand my dogs too.

Unless your very show savvy pups need a tad more patience to settle so if you have to rush from ring to ring & your not a confident dog handler your dog will feel it asap & it be a waste of time.

Totally agree we show both Boxers & Pointers, and even though the breeds are at different ends you bet your bottom dollar the Utility Group usually clashes with Pointers...

Personally if I were you I would be waiting. You have said that Willow is your first showdog, so why rush in and get another so soon??

Firstly training a young puppy for the show ring does require a decent amount of work on your behalf, stacking, lead training, grooming... etc... but imagine doubling that!!

It might be a bit too much to handle on your first attempt. Also your first show dog is a good way to learn what to do, and each dog after that ALWAYS benefits from the things you learn with your first dog.

[Dogsfevr]

The first point i would say is dont get caught thinking seperate groups so showing will be easy.

Groups often clash with distances apart.if your wanting to show both without a helper yes it could/would be hard .

havinh shown breeds in sep groups for years at present i am just doingthe one group due to clashing & relying on good helpers to hand my dogs too.

Unless your very show savvy pups need a tad more patience to settle so if you have to rush from ring to ring & your not a confident dog handler your dog will feel it asap & it be a waste of time.

Totally agree we show both Boxers & Pointers, and even though the breeds are at different ends you bet your bottom dollar the Utility Group usually clashes with Pointers...

Personally if I were you I would be waiting. You have said that Willow is your first showdog, so why rush in and get another so soon??

Firstly training a young puppy for the show ring does require a decent amount of work on your behalf, stacking, lead training, grooming... etc... but imagine doubling that!!

It might be a bit too much to handle on your first attempt. Also your first show dog is a good way to learn what to do, and each dog after that ALWAYS benefits from the things you learn with your first dog.

I would also look at it that if you prove your ability with the LH wei the dallie you get in the future may be better than what you get now.

I now you want a bitch so not sure if you plan to breed but a bitch will need to be something special to put up with seasons,mood swings & the likes when its show season.

For me unless breeding its all males,show all year,no seasons,occasional phantoms & boobs & silliness or not eating at that time