Peta Planning To Open An Office In Australia

[whippets]

If they gave as much a shit about animals as they pretended to I may support them, until then, in my opinion, they can (in the words of Simon Pegg & Nick Frost) - JOG ON!!!!!!!

Rat

haha. but it was a two fingered salute I loved that movie

[raz]

Raz - I dont think Id like to see that

Rat

I dont think anyone wants to see that, Rat. It'll just look like a bowl of curdled tofu.

[joanne76]

Its very confusing for me to decide where I stand with PETA

You want to support someone, go support Hugh Fernley Whittingstal. He is against the battery farming, the cruel conditions and is all for a more healthy, sustainable lifestyle where animals are free range and provided with happy lives, a quick death and not one bit is wasted. For people to get out from behind the TV and get out into the garden, to eat fresh non processed foods and to generally lead a happier life. Now there is animal welfare with someone who has a clue and about what is realistically sustainable.

Thankyou for reminding me of hugh, you are completely right.

I have wanted to find out more about Peta but have always been put off by all the horrible in your face pictures.

If only we had someone like Hugh in this country.

[FD26]

This has always intrigued me

What happens to the animals when they are all released and we have enjoyment from a distance until we need the land for all the crops we will need to plant in order to feed us and clothe us is this just something no one thinks about till it hits us and we all go "ohhh yeah.... we never thought about that"

Yes, there have been studies that looked at the amount of land that would be needed to supply the current human population with enough protein from vegetable sources to survive. Even if every square inch of suitable land on the planet were used (including remaining animal habitat), it wouldn't be enough. So, a decrease in human population would be needed.... I suggest members of PETA should put their mouths where their principles are, and go first!

Do you have an links to these studies? That theory seems bizarre to me.

I'm a vegetarian that doesn't go around parading my opinions, in fact I'm the only one in my household that doesn't eat meat lol. But I still like to quietly dream of a day when we don't eat meat anymore, as a species.

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

This has always intrigued me

What happens to the animals when they are all released and we have enjoyment from a distance until we need the land for all the crops we will need to plant in order to feed us and clothe us is this just something no one thinks about till it hits us and we all go "ohhh yeah.... we never thought about that"

Yes, there have been studies that looked at the amount of land that would be needed to supply the current human population with enough protein from vegetable sources to survive. Even if every square inch of suitable land on the planet were used (including remaining animal habitat), it wouldn't be enough. So, a decrease in human population would be needed.... I suggest members of PETA should put their mouths where their principles are, and go first!

Do you have an links to these studies? That theory seems bizarre to me.

I'm a vegetarian that doesn't go around parading my opinions, in fact I'm the only one in my household that doesn't eat meat lol. But I still like to quietly dream of a day when we don't eat meat anymore, as a species.

Its a nice thought, but unfortunately, humans are designed to eat meat. Some people can survive on a vegetarian diet and some (like me) can't. I was vegetarian for about 8 years, and I constantly struggled with anaemia. My body just couldn't digest enough iron from vegetable sources, I was on a very specific diet to try to get as much iron as possible but it just didn't work. Even iron supplements didn't help, my body just can't absorb them ;) So I need to eat meat to stay healthy. And to be perfectly honest, I like meat

[FD26]

This has always intrigued me

What happens to the animals when they are all released and we have enjoyment from a distance until we need the land for all the crops we will need to plant in order to feed us and clothe us is this just something no one thinks about till it hits us and we all go "ohhh yeah.... we never thought about that"

Yes, there have been studies that looked at the amount of land that would be needed to supply the current human population with enough protein from vegetable sources to survive. Even if every square inch of suitable land on the planet were used (including remaining animal habitat), it wouldn't be enough. So, a decrease in human population would be needed.... I suggest members of PETA should put their mouths where their principles are, and go first!

Do you have an links to these studies? That theory seems bizarre to me.

I'm a vegetarian that doesn't go around parading my opinions, in fact I'm the only one in my household that doesn't eat meat lol. But I still like to quietly dream of a day when we don't eat meat anymore, as a species.

Its a nice thought, but unfortunately, humans are designed to eat meat. Some people can survive on a vegetarian diet and some (like me) can't. I was vegetarian for about 8 years, and I constantly struggled with anaemia. My body just couldn't digest enough iron from vegetable sources, I was on a very specific diet to try to get as much iron as possible but it just didn't work. Even iron supplements didn't help, my body just can't absorb them ;) So I need to eat meat to stay healthy. And to be perfectly honest, I like meat

Hmm, fair enough. To each their own opinion. I highly disagree that humans are designed to eat meat, or that if they are that means we should carry on doing it. But, I don't really care what other people do, that's their prerogative. Both my partner and son eat meat because they like it, and that's their choice. :rolleyes: I outgrew arguing about it when I left my teen years lol. It's futile really, as you can't change someone's mind unless they want it changed! And I don't think quite so radically as I used to. A few years of studying psychology made it really clear that animal research etc. is still a vital thing although still something I can't personally do (thus why I don't study psychology anymore!).

Funnily enough, I've been a vegetarian for almost 20 years and my body retains excessive amounts of iron lol. Always shocks my doctors. However, I do have a problem with B12, which I take supplements for.

[whippets]

This will be the PETA sign out the front of the Aussie head office (right next door to C O Scientology of course).

[mita]

Its very confusing for me to decide where I stand with PETA

When it comes to companion animals I find it easy to have a position re PETA. They're off on a completely different direction to any of the rigorous research about dogs as companions.....& their breeding, raising & management.

I have far less knowledge about animals used for various human consumptions. So I'd have an open mind on some of their campaigns.

[Gallomph]

Yes, there have been studies that looked at the amount of land that would be needed to supply the current human population with enough protein from vegetable sources to survive. Even if every square inch of suitable land on the planet were used (including remaining animal habitat), it wouldn't be enough. So, a decrease in human population would be needed.... I suggest members of PETA should put their mouths where their principles are, and go first!

Do you have an links to these studies? That theory seems bizarre to me.

I didn't save the links, but if I have time this weekend I'll do another search and try to find it again. The essence if it was that enough calories could be produced from plants to sustain the human population, but not enough protein and I think a few other things (?maybe iron?). Sorry, don't remember all the details.

[WoofnHoof]

Its very confusing for me to decide where I stand with PETA

When it comes to companion animals I find it easy to have a position re PETA. They're off on a completely different direction to any of the rigorous research about dogs as companions.....& their breeding, raising & management.

I have far less knowledge about animals used for various human consumptions. So I'd have an open mind on some of their campaigns.

I looked at PETAs finances on their website while researching a project on mulesing and the trouble is they don't have any interest in producing better welfare outcomes, there is no research dollars directed into animal welfare itself, just a bit of research money into projects looking at replacing the use of animals in experiments. This would support their aim of eradicating any interaction between animals and humans but really does nothing to improve the welfare of animals at present (or in the future). Indirectly they have done a lot to improve welfare simply by posing a signficant threat to industries, they have forced industries themselves to have a more sensitive approach to animal welfare which in and of itself is a good thing, they have also forced consumers to make more sensitive buying decisions so much so that free range eggs for example are a profitable marketing choice.

My opinion at the moment is that PETA's campaigns can have many positive side effects but their actions in and of themselves are questionable at best (and in many cases contradictory), and their direct effects on animal welfare outcomes are negligible, perhaps they have merely hastened a process by which society would have come to care for farm animal welfare by itself? Perhaps they are a natural consequence of the prevalence of factory farming and the natural aversion we have to it? There is no doubt they have played a role in farm animal welfare but whether this is a positive role it is very hard to say, while researching topics for my animal welfare courses I have found that they have engendered so much fear in animal producers that it is difficult to gain cooperation even though producers themselves are not cruel or heartless towards their animals.

Watching their promo video (kindly linked by kendall in OT) it is apparent that they use the worst footage and the worst practices to encourage people to take up vegetarianism, they leave no option for the humane treatment of food production animals, and they have no solutions further than the complete disengagement of humans from the animal world. Whether this is a solution for the plight of animals I don't know, really you would just be trading the cruelty of humans for the cruelty of nature, sometimes you look at the cruelty that humans are capable of and think that perhaps animals are better off without us, perhaps the world is better off without us, does the positive outweigh the negative? I don't know but while I can see where PETA are coming from I don't agree with their philosophy or their methods, if animals are better off without us I'd rather we come to that conclusion for ourselves and not be driven there by fear or hate.

[Erny]

Well written and well said, WoofnHoof.

[mita]

I looked at PETAs finances on their website while researching a project on mulesing and the trouble is they don't have any interest in producing better welfare outcomes, there is no research dollars directed into animal welfare itself, just a bit of research money into projects looking at replacing the use of animals in experiments.

Good point. PETA tends to be more reactionary, based on their already-existing belief system.

It sure sticks out a mile in relation to companion animals. Totally reactive there.

So it's reasonable to identify issues with other animals being used for human purposes, but still a way to go re any improved welfare options.

The more I hear about PETA, the more they seem to position themselves as an organisational cattle-prod (ironic metaphor there ). More on getting reactions, as if that's enough. And confusing reaction with solution.

[FD26]

I looked at PETAs finances on their website while researching a project on mulesing and the trouble is they don't have any interest in producing better welfare outcomes, there is no research dollars directed into animal welfare itself, just a bit of research money into projects looking at replacing the use of animals in experiments.

Good point. PETA tends to be more reactionary, based on their already-existing belief system.

It sure sticks out a mile in relation to companion animals. Totally reactive there.

So it's reasonable to identify issues with other animals being used for human purposes, but still a way to go re any improved welfare options.

The more I hear about PETA, the more they seem to position themselves as an organisational cattle-prod (ironic metaphor there ). More on getting reactions, as if that's enough. And confusing reaction with solution.

I think you'll find PETA as an organisation does this, while many of PETA's followers are more about rational change. When I was a gung-ho animal rights bound vegan I used to devote 2 hours a week to writing letters to people in power about both rational legislation and particular animals that needed help ASAP. I haven't visited their website in a decade, but they used to run lots of little campaigns like that, and have some pretty helpful toolkits available on it.

[mushka]

Is there anyway of blocking them setting-up shop in Australia?

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

Is there anyway of blocking them setting-up shop in Australia?

Probably not, its a free country. Although I'm sure they'd have to get council permission to set up their office so maybe if enough people write letters to the local council, they won't approve it?

[poodlefan]

WnH:

Watching their promo video (kindly linked by kendall in OT) it is apparent that they use the worst footage and the worst practices to encourage people to take up vegetarianism, they leave no option for the humane treatment of food production animals, and they have no solutions further than the complete disengagement of humans from the animal world.

Interesting isn't it? While animal conservation organisations the world over are encouraging local people to learn to understand and view live wild animals as valuable resources (eco tourism assists here) PETA's solution to the human/animal issue is total disengagement.

Intensive animal farming disengages the farmer from the stock in a way no other system of animal raising ever has.

What we don't know we can't value. What we don't value we don't care for. What we don't care for, we don't preserve.

The animal welfare issue as I see it will only be resolved by people learning about and understanding animals, not ignoring and isolating them. That goes as much for dogs as it does for orangutans. There is a small proportion of damaged people who cannot care but for many others it is ignorance of the value that animals can have that stops them from caring.

Anyway I look at PETA I think they are deluded. I honestly wonder how many of their leadership even LIKE animals. Working on the "familiarity breeds contempt" adage, maybe its not a bad thing PETA are coming here. People can see their lunacy up close and personal.

Edited February 9, 2010 by poodlefan

[WoofnHoof]

WnH:

Watching their promo video (kindly linked by kendall in OT) it is apparent that they use the worst footage and the worst practices to encourage people to take up vegetarianism, they leave no option for the humane treatment of food production animals, and they have no solutions further than the complete disengagement of humans from the animal world.

Interesting isn't it? While animal conservation organisations the world over are encouraging local people to learn to understand and view live wild animals as valuable resources (eco tourism assists here) PETA's solution to the human/animal issue is total disengagement.

Intensive animal farming disengages the farmer from the stock in a way no other system of animal raising ever has.

What we don't know we can't value. What we don't value we don't care for. What we don't care for, we don't preserve.

The animal welfare issue as I see it will only be resolved by people learning about and understanding animals, not ignoring and isolating them. That goes as much for dogs as it does for orangutans. There is a small proportion of damaged people who cannot care but for many others it is ignorance of the value that animals can have that stops them from caring.

Anyway I look at PETA I think they are deluded. I honestly wonder how many of their leadership even LIKE animals. Working on the "familiarity breeds contempt" adage, maybe its not a bad thing PETA are coming here. People can see their lunacy up close and personal.

Yeah it was really interesting trying to dig up information on the issues that PETA campaigns on and they aren't big on education as long as you can rant and rave and post gory pictures that's enough for them. The funny thing is while traditional mulesing is quite traumatic for lambs, research has shown that clips are very effective in reducing the trauma and pain suffered and yet PETA are uncompromising and are against the use of clips as well. The negative aspects of their campaigns are so evident when you try to gather information as a student and no one wants to talk to you or help your research because of the fear these idiots have generated in the industries I heard Prof Clive Phillips speaking about his research around Australia talking to cattle and sheep producers and he commented about the difficulty in getting the farmers to trust him enough to talk about animal welfare, it really highlights the damage that has been done.