Traumatised

[Aidan]

This trainer said to pull the lead to correct her... They said to start off with not allowing her on the beds, couches and up high. They said to pull her off with the lead if she jumped on the couch... They did an example of this. This made me feel very uncomfortable, but the trainer said it wouldn't hurt, and that my dog wouldn't choke.

I, and many other professional dog trainers here, have trained dog aggressive dogs without using collar corrections. If you are uncomfortable with this person, look elsewhere until you find someone you are more comfortable with.

On the topic of dogs being let through doors, on the couch etc - it will make absolutely no difference to how your dog behaves around other dogs. It may be a practical matter, for eg you can't be letting a dog aggressive dog bolt through your front door and endangering himself and others.

[Cosmolo]

I think it can be very dangerous to take internet advice over a trainer who has seen your dog and you. However, if you do not feel comfortable with proposed training options, talk to the trainer- ask them if there are other things you could perhaps try first. Are they a qualified trainer?

I use lead corrections at times but i haven't had anyone finish a consult uncomfortable about any technique- we explain, demonstrate or alter etc until everyone is happy.

Regardless of whether a technique involves the use of corrections, many dogs will struggle in the initial stages of a training program as it can be such a dramatic change. This in itself i would not be overly concerned about.

[bedazzledx2]

Pippin, when you say she is aggressive when grooming, is that to you or your groomer? What breed is she and what does she do? ie does she growl, lift her lip or snap? I am a groomer and have dealt with lots of dogs that may appear aggressive to their owners and some definately are but for many it can be a matter of technique, place (grooming table v floor) or previous experience. Many dogs can be taught in small steps acceptable behaviour when being groomed. That doesn't mean they have to like it but they must keep their teeth to themselves!

So there are mixed feelings on this sort of training? I was just wondering, and I don't mean to ruin this thread if I should post this as a new thread or somewhere else please tell me, but I recently had a consultation with a trainer because my dog is aggressive, aggressive to some dogs and aggressive when grooming.

This trainer said to pull the lead to correct her... They said to start off with not allowing her on the beds, couches and up high. They said to pull her off with the lead if she jumped on the couch... They did an example of this. This made me feel very uncomfortable, but the trainer said it wouldn't hurt, and that my dog wouldn't choke. I don't really know what to think about it, as obviously I'm not a trainer and we've never had problems with my other dog (Who has done preschool and another obedience course and we haven't had any issues with) and I don't know whether this is normal, all I know is that it made me feel uncomfortable and I didn't like doing that to my dog. But if the dog is aggressive (What I described my dog as being) then is this what is used? I'm determined to get myself and my dog sorted out, because I know it is my fault. I'm just really stumped on this.

[Formal Dogs]

Hi Pippin, at the risk of being controversial, and I know I'm disagreeing with others here, but the "bed stuff" is quite important, hopefully once you resolve your issues, beds and other indoor "privileges" can be reintroduced. If the trainer's suggestions have made you feel uncomfortable it is important that you talk to them about it. They need to know if you're not happy. I have lots of years of experience working with behavioural and training issues and solving the problems can only be achieved by an open and honest relationship between you and the trainer. If you don't feel it's someone you can communicate with effectively, they are probably not the person for you. If you're looking for a trainer/behaviourist you should always ask to see their dog(s) as well.

I agree with the others who said that if you're not comfortable with this trainer, then find another one - but give them a chance to explain themselves first.

Good luck fixing your dog's problems - don't give up!!

[DogNerd]

Thankyou very much for the replies. I just didn't know whether this was normal or I was overreacting about it. They are qualified, I think I was just overwhelmed about the whole thing. I just didn't like pulling her off things with the lead.

She's never been aggressive when taking her off the couches and beds. It's only to some dogs and to both me and the groomers we've taken her to. We've got a new groomer now and we've explained the situation to her and they're willing to take it slow with her. She's a poodle,. I'm not too sure why she's aggressive when being groomed, we took the advice of getting her groomed frequently when she was a puppy so I don't think lack of grooming is the reason. I've contacted another trainer/behaviourist so I'm hoping we're now on the path to improving. Thanks again.

[nick4t7]

I rolled my eyes when I saw the subject title and then read the actual post....please....there are many out there that use a pop/correction and the fact you stated there was no warning when the correction was given isn't a horrible and as you imply, "traumatizing' incident!

Until you've worked with labs/retrievers you can't truly comment...this may have in your opinion been too rough of a method for you and your breed but in fact, that's how you should have stated it instead of automatically assuming that the owners were abusing the dogs and that anyone that DOES a correction with a check chain is barbaric and cruel.

Glad you enjoy the method of training you do and you are entitled to that method for your breed, but don't condemn other actions until you know the full story of why they are being used and what results have already resulted because of their use.

I used clicker training before it was fashionable to do so..people thought I was nuts...I still use some of the methods depending on the dogs but I also use check chains and have to occasionally give a good sharp correction. I used pinch collars which I know are far less harmful on a neck than a check chain but like so many things now, seeing something that disagrees with someone is not considered cruel and inhumane even if they know nothing about the method or tool.

Flame away....I've been training a LONG time and never have I abused a dog or caused harm to one.

glad to see that there are still some unbiased people training dogs.i have been training dogs for over thirty years using a check chain with great success and i have never abused a dog in my life

[luvsdogs]

I would actually prefer to see a couple of really good corrections than heaps of little pops. You do a correction right and you only have to do it once or twice.

I think it depends on the tool you are using and how you are using it.

And regardless, there are still wrong ways to use a tool, and correcting a dog so hard that you (for example) lift their feet off the ground and cause them to cry out or yelp is wrong IMO.

It certainly didn't work on April, she was trained on a check chain for the 1st 7 yrs of her life. Even b4 getting her I had read in a few dog trainig books of the time to give a good correction, hard enough to make the dog yelp & you'd only have to do it 2-3 times to stop the dog from pulling on lead or such. Not knowing at the time that a border collie was a soft dog & didn't require harsh corrections, it only made her lag, shut down, with those methods. Once I changed to positive training in 2000 she became a much more relaxed & willing partner. And yes I was shown & did use the corrections the right way.

[Cosmolo]

If using a correction shut a dog down, it is not being used the right way. No one should have shown you how to give such a correction that it shut a soft dog down. I can understand why you would not want to use anything like that again after an experience like that, but it doesn't mean what the 'trainer' showed you was correct.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: There is a lot more to giving a leash correction than jerking the leash, I think that gets lost in translation at times. I understand why your dog would perform better without corrections Luvdogs, but correcting to vocalisation levels is too hard for any dog.

The other consideration is that, dogs reluctantly perform for a correction, they perform well for a correctly used motivator though. Corrections are to deminish behaviours you dont want to see, not train new ones.

The attitude of the handler is also paramount to giving an "effective" correction.