Dol Pointscore

[jr_inoz]

Not everyone is going to like the point score system. There is no perfect point score system that is going to make everyone happy. Either you enter the pointscore or you don't.

Thats so true E

But why move the goal posts just because you can.

Doesnt make it fair for all. Many many shows here in Qld do not get entries of over 750

It does seem really unfair, if you look at entries on a state by state basis.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that NSW and VIC very often have more than 750 at Erskine Park and KCC.

Basically the only time we get more than 750 at Durack is when we have international judges and that doesnt happen all that often.

try being in SA then where you only have 3 shows in Adelaide for the whole of january and february - and yes that is three actual shows - not double headers or anything. (And then, there are only 2 all breed champ shows scheduled for march)

(oops - we did have four but one got cancelled under hot weather policy where SACA rules where misapplied!!! bet those entered in that show were not impressed when show was cancelled, the lost their entry fee and the temp that day at location was only forecast for 33C and ended up being 28C - oops sorry - off topic rant...)

nowhere near the number of shows I see scheduled for qld over the same time period.

[Bohunt]

I totally agree thats why we are not entering the rising star pointscore and I still think the BOB comp. should be only BOB wins that count and not RUBOB.

Some that do millions of shows as compared to 1/6 or less in other states look like they are doing really well but in reality only doing alot of shows and mostly without any competition in their own breed and yet they get to brag at the end of the year simply because they spent their whole year chasing points.

I really dont think that helps the sport remain healthy.

Very, very well said. I no longer participate in this contest as the results do not reflect who the top/best dogs are, just who goes to the most shows. I think it will be an impossible thing for Troy to fix as the 'serial exhibitor' will travel anywhere to win. Poor Troy cannot please everyone!

I decided 2 years, when I could see the trend, to give the contest a wide birth and keep my focus on what dog showing means to me. It is definitely changing the face of showing, as is Dog News Australia. The Internet also has a lot to answer for.

I prefer to have some balance in life and pick the shows that interest me and enjoy doing other things as well. Makes life more pleasurable and cheaper than chasing DOL points.

Gaela

[mirawee]

I'll come to WA for a show...may have to leave a week beforehand though...!

And you will be welcomed with open arms Just ask Jacq

[Missymoo]

I totally agree thats why we are not entering the rising star pointscore and I still think the BOB comp. should be only BOB wins that count and not RUBOB.

Some that do millions of shows as compared to 1/6 or less in other states look like they are doing really well but in reality only doing alot of shows and mostly without any competition in their own breed and yet they get to brag at the end of the year simply because they spent their whole year chasing points.

I really dont think that helps the sport remain healthy.

Very, very well said. I no longer participate in this contest as the results do not reflect who the top/best dogs are, just who goes to the most shows. I think it will be an impossible thing for Troy to fix as the 'serial exhibitor' will travel anywhere to win. Poor Troy cannot please everyone!

I decided 2 years, when I could see the trend, to give the contest a wide birth and keep my focus on what dog showing means to me. It is definitely changing the face of showing, as is Dog News Australia. The Internet also has a lot to answer for.

I prefer to have some balance in life and pick the shows that interest me and enjoy doing other things as well. Makes life more pleasurable and cheaper than chasing DOL points.

Gaela

Well written Gaela, this was what I was getting at in my advertising post....

Edited February 2, 2010 by Missymoo

[Bohunt]

I've been thinking about this all morning (up early as I had pups on the plane) and remembered what the Canterbury Combined Terrier Club in NZ did to stop the dog of the year etc being won on the basis of going to as many shows as possible. They allowed you to submit the results from a fixed number of shows - you could choose your best results over the last 12 months from a fixed number of shows. This would mean that say you attended 50 shows, you would take say 20 (whatever number was nominated) and use the ones you had the best results in. This would mean that everyone has a fair crack at the competition without having to fly all over the country to get results. I know myself that I am financially & time limited with the number of shows I can attend and other people have family commitments, financial limitations, the desire to avoid showing on hot or rainy days etc.

It would certainly take away the current show 'fever'!

The other point I have to raise is that Grand Champion dogs that would normally have been retired are now staying in the ring and breeds are dwindling because other competitors are discouraged and believe there is no point in entering as they won't get past a dog that is heavily campaigned, advertised and easily recognised. I have heard people discussing this.

I was also dismayed to see that NZ have decided to use the DOL Pointscore to determine the competitors for their Dog of the Year Competition! I was stunned. What happens to exhibitors like me that are not interested in this Competition or don't have a computer or computer skills?

This is turning into a 'monster' and seems to be growing in power. Well marketed by Troy and probably well beyond his original dreams. All credit to him and his team. We own the Australian Ford Forum and that is also a 'monster' that is such a force now and no individual could stop it.

Cheers

Gaela

[Troy]

I've been thinking about this all morning (up early as I had pups on the plane) and remembered what the Canterbury Combined Terrier Club in NZ did to stop the dog of the year etc being won on the basis of going to as many shows as possible. They allowed you to submit the results from a fixed number of shows - you could choose your best results over the last 12 months from a fixed number of shows. This would mean that say you attended 50 shows, you would take say 20 (whatever number was nominated) and use the ones you had the best results in. This would mean that everyone has a fair crack at the competition without having to fly all over the country to get results. I know myself that I am financially & time limited with the number of shows I can attend and other people have family commitments, financial limitations, the desire to avoid showing on hot or rainy days etc.

It would certainly take away the current show 'fever'!

As previously stated (in another topic), we are looking to limit the number of shows for next year in the dog of the year (All Breeds) comp. The system will automatically choose the top 30(?) shows.

We still haven't sorted out the Rising Star comp. Choosing the top 30 shows using a flat points system is likely to have a lot of dogs all on the same level. This is also likely for the Best of Breed competition when there is relatively few shown in a breed.

We will continue to work on it.

[Bohunt]

You are definitely on the ball Troy and that is great. Don't envy you really, as you are never going to please everyone but the idea you are looking at is certainly going to make it something I would seriously consider doing again. Thank you for listening to your members and considering new ways to do this.

I know from our AFF that it is a fulltime job. We spend many hours everyday moderating etc.

Regards

Gaela

[skyehaven]

I've been thinking about this all morning (up early as I had pups on the plane) and remembered what the Canterbury Combined Terrier Club in NZ did to stop the dog of the year etc being won on the basis of going to as many shows as possible. They allowed you to submit the results from a fixed number of shows - you could choose your best results over the last 12 months from a fixed number of shows. This would mean that say you attended 50 shows, you would take say 20 (whatever number was nominated) and use the ones you had the best results in. This would mean that everyone has a fair crack at the competition without having to fly all over the country to get results. I know myself that I am financially & time limited with the number of shows I can attend and other people have family commitments, financial limitations, the desire to avoid showing on hot or rainy days etc.

It would certainly take away the current show 'fever'!

As previously stated (in another topic), we are looking to limit the number of shows for next year in the dog of the year (All Breeds) comp. The system will automatically choose the top 30(?) shows.

We still haven't sorted out the Rising Star comp. Choosing the top 30 shows using a flat points system is likely to have a lot of dogs all on the same level. This is also likely for the Best of Breed competition when there is relatively few shown in a breed.

We will continue to work on it.

I do like the idea of nominating a number of show, would make much fairer I would think, might have 1/2 a chance then, none at all now.

[whippets]

It doesn't matter what system you use there will always be disadvantages to minority breeds and geographic areas.

I take the DoL system (and breed club systems for that matter) with a grain of salt as far as being an indicator for the best quality dogs.

[SwaY]

As previously stated (in another topic), we are looking to limit the number of shows for next year in the dog of the year (All Breeds) comp. The system will automatically choose the top 30(?) shows.

We still haven't sorted out the Rising Star comp. Choosing the top 30 shows using a flat points system is likely to have a lot of dogs all on the same level. This is also likely for the Best of Breed competition when there is relatively few shown in a breed.

We will continue to work on it.

I have spoken to some people about this in the last week, everyone said it should be 30-40 best results for the BREED aswell.

The feedback was many people are competitive in their breed, but not at group level.

(to me the breed is more important then anything)

If Rising star ending with many dogs on the same score, i would like it to be done with the dog with the most classes in groups/shows.

Over a dog who has got points for being the winner of their breed class.

[weisnjac]

I like it the way it is

What if the system chooses the 30 shows you couldn't get to that year? I would be happy with submitting your best result for the month or something to that effect, but I'm just in it for fun too. I don't look into it that much

[SwaY]

What if the system chooses the 30 shows you couldn't get to that year?

It would choose the best results (highest scoring) for the 30-40 shows - not nominated shows like a point score.

[weisnjac]

What if the system chooses the 30 shows you couldn't get to that year?

It would choose the best results (highest scoring) for the 30-40 shows - not nominated shows like a point score.

Of course.... It's been a long day

That sounds like a good idea. I'll still enter either way, it's a bit of fun

[Troy]

I have spoken to some people about this in the last week, everyone said it should be 30-40 best results for the BREED aswell.

The feedback was many people are competitive in their breed, but not at group level.

(to me the breed is more important then anything)

If Rising star ending with many dogs on the same score, i would like it to be done with the dog with the most classes in groups/shows.

Over a dog who has got points for being the winner of their breed class.

We could do something like you suggest for the Rising Star.

Re the breed competition, how would you a handle breed that has maybe only a couple of dogs being shown at each show? How would you differentiate all the doga at the top?

[SwaY]

Re the breed competition, how would you a handle breed that has maybe only a couple of dogs being shown at each show?

How would you differentiate all the doga at the top?

If the two top dogs finished on the same score, (from the selected 30-40 best results)

You could make the winner the one who had the most best of breeds.

Or tally up the best of breed points and the one with the highest tally would win.

Or do it on challenge points from the best 30-40 results.

I will give it some more thought.

[Silvawilow]

I have spoken to some people about this in the last week, everyone said it should be 30-40 best results for the BREED aswell.

The feedback was many people are competitive in their breed, but not at group level.

(to me the breed is more important then anything)

If Rising star ending with many dogs on the same score, i would like it to be done with the dog with the most classes in groups/shows.

Over a dog who has got points for being the winner of their breed class.

Yep, I agree that it should also be limited for the "Breed" point score as well as the "All Breeds".

[yarracully]

I have spoken to some people about this in the last week, everyone said it should be 30-40 best results for the BREED aswell.

The feedback was many people are competitive in their breed, but not at group level.

(to me the breed is more important then anything)

If Rising star ending with many dogs on the same score, i would like it to be done with the dog with the most classes in groups/shows.

Over a dog who has got points for being the winner of their breed class.

We could do something like you suggest for the Rising Star.

Re the breed competition, how would you a handle breed that has maybe only a couple of dogs being shown at each show? How would you differentiate all the doga at the top?

What about those that can't do 30-40 best results. After all this would mean 30 or 40 shows. Many in rural areas simply do not get that many shows. We travel to three different states just to get 24 shows a year.

There would be many others that are in this position.

I really wish I lived in the cities where I could show every weekend instead of averaging one weekend a month.

[SwaY]

What about those that can't do 30-40 best results.

Then all of your 24 shows would be entered, in fact it would make it fairer for you.

As your 24 shows, would be up against those who had 30-40 shows, versus 40+ shows in the final score.

[gundoglover]

If there are exhibitors who only have 24 shows each year within driving distances of where they live, then the results from the best 24 for DOL pointscore would be fairer than arbitrarily selecting 30 or 40 as the cut-off.

[SwaY]

If there are exhibitors who only have 24 shows each year within driving distances of where they live, then the results from the best 24 for DOL pointscore would be fairer than arbitrarily selecting 30 or 40 as the cut-off.

You would then have to know where everyone lived, and what days they could enter.

If that was the case you would have to then lower it for the shows that are cancelled due to weather,

Those who work weekends, those who don't like the judge, dog out of coat, bitch in season, those who can't get a babysitter etc

It will never be a perfect system for everyone, but it would sure mark it fairer if those shows were capped.

An example from the breed point score 2009

Someone went to 76 shows last year, they came in #5 - breed score.

The winner did 34 shows.