Bullbreedlover Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 apologies if this has already been covered but I cant find the thread. I have pm'd Troy about this. DOL now has double points if the entries for a show have over 750 dogs. How unfair is that? Well I think it is anyway. Scenario 1. Show has over 750 exhibits. You are the only exhibit in your breed in the Puppy class. You go no further for group. You get Puppy of Breed and double the points. Scenario 2. Show does not have over 750 exhibits. You beat 4 other puppies in your breed(or how ever many were entered).You go no further for group. You get Puppy of Breed and no more points but because the show had less than 750 exhibits. Sorry but I think that is bloody unfair. I do alot of ag shows. Yeah I do still travel to shows. I like the DOL pointscore but think this is so unfair. Its not my fault the entries didnt get to over 750. anyays rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkie1 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Not everyone is going to like the point score system. There is no perfect point score system that is going to make everyone happy. Either you enter the pointscore or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Not everyone is going to like the point score system. There is no perfect point score system that is going to make everyone happy. Either you enter the pointscore or you don't. Thats so true E But why move the goal posts just because you can. Doesnt make it fair for all. Many many shows here in Qld do not get entries of over 750 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) This has been discussed recently the topic should be easy to access The header is point score just a few post down Edited January 31, 2010 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 I only enter the pointscore for a bit of fun, so it doesn't really bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 This has been discussed recently the topic should be easy to accessThe header is point score just a few post down Thanks showdog I really must put my glasses on LOL Must of scrolled right past it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 This is the problem with using a flat points system. Even under the old system, if you went to a show that had 10 puppies in a breed and a show where you were the only puppy, you still received 5 points for your win which probably isn't fair either. We are taking everybody's comments/suggestions on board for next year. Ideally we would like to move the Rising Star to a points system based on the number of dogs entered in the class but are concerned about the accuracy/checking of the points as we can see a lot of errors happening especially when counting for the Group/Show wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbreedlover Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 This is the problem with using a flat points system. Even under the old system, if you went to a show that had 10 puppies in a breed and a show where you were the only puppy, you still received 5 points for your win which probably isn't fair either. We are taking everybody's comments/suggestions on board for next year. Ideally we would like to move the Rising Star to a points system based on the number of dogs entered in the class but are concerned about the accuracy/checking of the points as we can see a lot of errors happening especially when counting for the Group/Show wins. Thanks Troy I can see what you mean I liked the old system but then that is only my opinion. I prefer the 5 points and dont like the double for over 750 entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havasneeze Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 This is the problem with using a flat points system. Even under the old system, if you went to a show that had 10 puppies in a breed and a show where you were the only puppy, you still received 5 points for your win which probably isn't fair either. We are taking everybody's comments/suggestions on board for next year. Ideally we would like to move the Rising Star to a points system based on the number of dogs entered in the class but are concerned about the accuracy/checking of the points as we can see a lot of errors happening especially when counting for the Group/Show wins. I like the double points for large shows as there is a pretty good chance that there will be more than 1 dog in each class for each breed with the youngsters. Well done Troy!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 This is the problem with using a flat points system. Even under the old system, if you went to a show that had 10 puppies in a breed and a show where you were the only puppy, you still received 5 points for your win which probably isn't fair either. We are taking everybody's comments/suggestions on board for next year. Ideally we would like to move the Rising Star to a points system based on the number of dogs entered in the class but are concerned about the accuracy/checking of the points as we can see a lot of errors happening especially when counting for the Group/Show wins. I like the double points for large shows as there is a pretty good chance that there will be more than 1 dog in each class for each breed with the youngsters. Well done Troy!!!! Not in MY breed, regardless of the numbers at the show...recent example..I entered the Australian shows at Bulla in VIC, big numbers....one German Pinscher....I was entered at Benalla the weekend before..half the dogs or so....one German Pinscher. I have had ONE weekend where I had class competition and that was in 'baby'....even at our specialty, I was the only one in the Minor Class (for bitches OR dogs). As often happens, the rule are being designed and implemented for the city folks, and the rest of us in the country simply are told to suck it up or travel further.....we travel far enough at times. (rant over....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsk Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 It does seem really unfair, if you look at entries on a state by state basis. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that NSW and VIC very often have more than 750 at Erskine Park and KCC. Basically the only time we get more than 750 at Durack is when we have international judges and that doesnt happen all that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyehaven Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 It can never completely be fair I think, for example Vic already had 12 or so shows, SA have had 3. Febuary SA have only 2 country shows that most people won't go to because of the heat policy. I am quite sure Victoria will have plenty. So by end Feb, I would have had 3 shows, Victorians may have had 20 or more. Plus Victoria, Qld, NSW etc have a LOT OF small country shows, and have a choice of 2 or more places to show, we have 1 choice, and very very few small country shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceful Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) I really dont think that this helps the sport remain healthy. Edited February 8, 2010 by Keesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 It can never completely be fair I think, for example Vic already had 12 or so shows, SA have had 3. Febuary SA have only 2 country shows that most people won't go to because of the heat policy. I am quite sure Victoria will have plenty. So by end Feb, I would have had 3 shows, Victorians may have had 20 or more. Plus Victoria, Qld, NSW etc have a LOT OF small country shows, and have a choice of 2 or more places to show, we have 1 choice, and very very few small country shows. That is true, but from my experience there are a lot more entries overall at the Vic shows. So if you win, thats great, but a lot of the time, you don't....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyehaven Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 It can never completely be fair I think, for example Vic already had 12 or so shows, SA have had 3. Febuary SA have only 2 country shows that most people won't go to because of the heat policy. I am quite sure Victoria will have plenty. So by end Feb, I would have had 3 shows, Victorians may have had 20 or more. Plus Victoria, Qld, NSW etc have a LOT OF small country shows, and have a choice of 2 or more places to show, we have 1 choice, and very very few small country shows. That is true, but from my experience there are a lot more entries overall at the Vic shows. So if you win, thats great, but a lot of the time, you don't....! I don't think so, as they have so many small country shows, we do not, our gundog entries are usually higher, other than their really big shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 You would have to know the actively showing membership of each state, and then calculate average attendance rates. Not sure if those figures are around, let along available.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Easy to say that the numbers are big at KCC and Bulla...but as both are three hours drive, they aren't generally ones we attend....not everyone lives 30 minutes outside Melbourne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 You would have to know the actively showing membership of each state, and then calculate average attendance rates. Not sure if those figures are around, let along available.... Lappiemum, in WA we have a lot less shows than Vic, and yet we generally have more Lappies being shown except at the really big shows (although that may be changing with more Vic Lappy owners now showing)! Reason is that we show regardless of the size of the show (and everyone keeps saying it is too far to come to WA to show ) so if it is show with over or under 750 we are likely to have the same numbers which is between 4 and 6 dogs depending on how many I am stupid enough to enter (other person showing has two dogs, we have 4). Oh, and since we are friends we are generally either both entered or neither unless one of us has another commitment and the other still wants to show dogs for some reason. Both my breeds have the same number of dogs entered regardless of size of shows, or maybe one or two dogs difference at the very most. But then there are only 2 show kelpies in WA (soon to be 3 ) and 8 Lappies that are able to be shown of which only 6 are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 You would have to know the actively showing membership of each state, and then calculate average attendance rates. Not sure if those figures are around, let along available.... Lappiemum, in WA we have a lot less shows than Vic, and yet we generally have more Lappies being shown except at the really big shows (although that may be changing with more Vic Lappy owners now showing)! Reason is that we show regardless of the size of the show (and everyone keeps saying it is too far to come to WA to show ) so if it is show with over or under 750 we are likely to have the same numbers which is between 4 and 6 dogs depending on how many I am stupid enough to enter (other person showing has two dogs, we have 4). Oh, and since we are friends we are generally either both entered or neither unless one of us has another commitment and the other still wants to show dogs for some reason. Both my breeds have the same number of dogs entered regardless of size of shows, or maybe one or two dogs difference at the very most. But then there are only 2 show kelpies in WA (soon to be 3 ) and 8 Lappies that are able to be shown of which only 6 are. I'll come to WA for a show...may have to leave a week beforehand though...! Seriously, I understand the arguments for and against. Yes, there are lots of shows in Vic, but I still think it would be interesting to look at overall participation rates against the eligible membership, and number of shows available. But thats the research nerd in me talking there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I haven't logged a Rising Star entry yet - can someone tell me if that's the only double points category? I know there are lots of shows in Victoria, but I doubt we'll enter many of them. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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