Vaccination Reaction/allergy?

[Toohey]

Just a warning to those of you who still vaccinate...

My girl had her shot at 5.30pm today and around four hours later started to get distressed, shaking her head, rubbing her ears, face became swollen and lumpy.

She got gradually worse, panting full on and was obviously miserable, so off to the emergency vet we went, for a shot of antihistamine and anti inflammatory.

Vet said her ears were swollen and red inside and thought it most likely a reaction to her vaccination.

Not sure if this was the same brand she had had in the past, and whether that might be the reason she has not had problems previously. Will check with her regular vet tomorrow.

Maybe she met something in the backyard that caused the allergy, not sure, but she is calm and sleeping peacefully now.

Keep an eye on them after they have their shots

[Ci]

I am bring this back up as I am taking my two to get their shots tomorrow and am worried about it.

They have not had shots for three years.

They had all their puppy ones and then their first year ones and nothing since.

No adverse reactions to any of these shots. So the vet reckons they will be fine.

I plan to keep an eye on them.

But how often to adverse reactions happen - the vet told me he has seen maybe two/three in the last several years.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Ci

[poodlefan]

To vaccinate or not is a tough decision. I have adopted the risk minimisation approach.

Personally I think the risk of the diseases we vaccinate against far outweighs the possiblility of an adverse reaction. Parvo is a definite case in point IMHO.

Unvaccinated dogs are a risk to other dogs and especially to pups/old dogs and ANY dog with a compromised immune system.

I will continue to vaccinate but will await the verdict on how often they need to be done to be effective.

[Ci]

I do think you need to vaccinate but not overvaccinate.Never every year.

I have always vaccinated my dogs every three or four years. And when they get elderly more often as they are at more risk then.

All my cats have/were only ever done when they had to be like if kennelled if I went away for example - maybe twice in their whole lives and all of them have lived to a rip old age and were/are as healthy as can be.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Ci

[Toohey]

Hi Ci,

I rang my regular vet the next day to let him know what happened, and he told me she had the same brand vacc (CSL) that she had before, but they can react because there can be variations within the batches. he said the normal allergic reaction is displayed as facial swelling, and rubbing their faces.

He also said they get 1-2 reactions per year with thousands of dogs (?how many) being vaccinated. He was going to report it to CSL.

I am tempted to not vaccinate either of my dogs anymore. Not just because of this, I really don't believe it's necessary and only had my girl done because the breeder preferred it, as she is to be bred again probably.

[Toohey]

Also, my breeder actually agrees with me after discussing it with her vet. She thinks they should have at least kennel cough though, because they get out and about so much, but, wouldn't being out and about build up their immunity even more???

Edited January 6, 2005 by Toohey

[poodlefan]

Toohey, being out and about will only build their immunity if they don't actually succumb to it...

I consider my dogs to be at high risk for contracting communicable diseases. I go all kinds of places including those where there are high concentrations of dogs... shows, trials etc. You are required to have a vaccinated dog to attend many ANKC events.

Unless you are sure that your dogs HAVE built up immunity (eg. by titre) then essentially you are taking a risk.

Some diseases eg. Parvo are to risky to me. Mature dogs don't tend to die of KC but distemper, parvo will hit them hard.

[Ci]

Oh, I am nervous about it!!!

I told my vet he had better sit near the phone tomorrow night cause if something happens I will be calling him.

He laughed and said fine. He mentioned kennel cough too.

I will ask him tomorrow exactly whats in it and which are the most important.

[Rebanne]

I only vaccinate my dogs every 3 years or so. I do not believe they need yearly vaccinations. I never do kennel cough except this year when they had to go into kennels. Then they had their C3 one month and the kennel cough a month later. Tatum had a severe reaction after her second C3, impossible to tell if it was straight vaccinoses (sp?) but she has since had a killed parvo vaccine ok and that's all she is having from now on. I'm not risking her again. BTW Tatum did not go into kennels, she stayed with a friend. Not that the kennel would take her anyway.

[gusgem]

I'm sorry but people who DO NOT vaccinate their dog have obviously never lost a dog to any of the disease. I lost a little cattle pup from parvo and it was awlful, bloody diarrhoea, vomiting the lot, she had an exceptionally poor start to her 10week life.

You are probably the kind of people that don't vaccinate your kids either!!

This really frustrates me when I here about people NOT vaccinating, for gods sake be serious about your dogs health!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[InspectorRex]

I agree Gusgem!

There are new vaccines on the market now. If you do not want to do 2 X Kennel Cough injections there is now an intra-nasal kennel cough vaccine in a spray form with far fewer problems and immunity only takes 3-4 days instead of 2wks.

My pup just had her 12wkC3( protec) and when older( as per Vet) will have the intra-nasal KC vaccine

[Toohey]

Gusgem sorry about your pup, but at 10 weeks old he would not been fully vaccinated and therefore not fully protected against Parvo.

There has been much discussion and research surrounding the necessity of annual vaccinations and if you do a forum search you'll get lots of information.

Here's something to get you started, posted by Jed in March.

Oh, and I am sure the people here do get their children vaccinated, but only when they are young and they become immune for life after that.

Why would the rules be any different for dogs? Kids don't have to be vaccinated every year of their life.

 

Forum Regular

Posts: 3,155

Member No.: 438

Joined: 19/3/2002

Location: Lalaland

This hs been posted on few e-mail breeders' lists - a follow up on similar information previously posted. Thought some of you might be interested.

Please feel free to cross post far and wide:

Dear Editor

We, the undersigned, would like to bring to your attention our concerns in the light of recent new evidence regarding vaccination protocol. The American Veterinary Medical Association Committee report this year states that 'the one year revaccination recommendation frequently found on many vaccination labels is based on historical precedent, not scientific data'.

In JAVMA in 1995, Smith notes that 'there is evidence that some vaccines provide immunity beyond one year. In fact, according to research there is no proof that many of the yearly vaccinations are necessary and that protection in many instances may be life long'; also, 'Vaccination is a potent medical procedure with both benefits and risks for the patient'; further that, 'Revaccination of patients with

sufficient immunity does not add measurably to their disease resistance, and may increase their risk of adverse post-vaccination events.'

Finally, he states that: 'Adverse events may be associated with the antigen, adjuvant, carrier, preservative or combination thereof. Possible adverse events include failure to immunise, anaphylaxis, immunosuppression, autoimmune disorders,

transient infections and/or long-term infected carrier states.'

The report of the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Taskforce in JAAHA (39 March/April 2003) is also interesting reading: 'Current knowledgte supports t! he statement that no vaccine is always safe, no vaccine is always protective and no vaccine is always indicated'; 'Misunderstanding, misinformation and the conservative nature of our profession have largely slowed adoption of protocols advocating decreased frequency of vaccination'; 'Immunological memory provides durations of immunity for core infectious diseases that far exceed the traditional recommendations for annual vaccination. This is supported by a growing body of veterinary information as well as well-developed epidemiological vigilance in human medicine that indicates immunity induced by vaccination is extremely long lasting and, in most cases, lifelong.'

Further, the evidence shows that the duration of immunity for rabies vaccine, canine distemper vaccine, canine parvovirus vaccine, feline panleukopaenia vaccine, feline rhinotracheitis and feline calicivurus have all been demonstrated to be a minimum of seven years, by serology for rabies and challenge studies for all others.

The veterinary surgeons below fully accept that no single achievement has had greater impact on the lives and well-being of our patients, our clients and our ability to prevent infectious diseases than the developments in annual vaccines. We, however, fully support the recommendations and guidelines of the American Animal Hospitals Association Taskforce, to reduce vaccine protocols for dogs and cats such that booster vaccinations are only given every three years, and only for core vaccines unless otherwise scientifically justified.

We further suggest that the evidence curren! tly available will soon lead to the following facts being accepted:

* The immune systems of dogs and cats mature fully at six months and any modified live virus (MLV) vaccine given after that age produces immunity that is good for the life of that pet.

* If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralise the antigens

from the subsequent so there is little or no effect; the pet is not 'boosted', nor are more memory cells induced.

* Not only are annual boosters for canine parvovirus and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anaemia.

* There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration! of MLV vaccines.

* Puppies and kittens receive antibodies through their mothers' milk. This natural protection can last eight to 14 weeks.

* Puppies and kittens should NOT be vaccinated at less than eight weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralise the vaccine and little protection will be produced.

* Vaccination at six weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first effective vaccine.

* Vaccines given two weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system.

This would give possible new guidelines as follows:

1. A series of vaccinations is given starting at eight weeks

of age (or preferably later) and given three to four weeks

apart, up to 16 weeks of age.

2. One further booster is given sometime after six months of age and will then provide life-long immunity.

In light of data now available showing the needless use and potential harm of annual vaccination, we call on our profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination. Can we wonder that clients are losing faith in vaccination and researching the issue themselves? We think they are right to do so. Politics, tradition or the economic well-being of veterinary surgeons and pharmaceutical companies should not be a factor in making medical decisions.

It is accepted that the annual examination of a pet is advisable. We undervalue ourselves, however, if we hang this essential service on the back of vaccination and will ultimately suffer the consequences. Do we need to wait until we see actions against vets, such as those launched in the state of Texas by Dr Robert Rogers? He asserts that the present practice of marketing vaccinations for companion animals constitutes fraud by misrepresentation, fraud by silence and theft by deception.

The oath we take as newly-qualified veterinary surgeons is 'to help, or at least do no harm'. We wish to maintain our position within society, and be deserving of the trust placed in us as a profession. It is therefore our contention that those who continue to give annual vaccinations in the light of new evidence may well be acting contrary to the wefare of the animals committed to their care.

Yours faithfully

Richard Allport, BVetMed, MRCVS

Sue Armstrong, MA BVetMed, MRCVS

Mark Carpenter, BVetMed, MRCVS

Sarah Fox-Chapman, MS, DVM, MRCVS

Nichola Cornish, BVetMed, MRCVS

Tim Couzens, BVetMed, MRCVS

Chris Day, MA, VetMB, MRCVS

Claire Davies, BVSc, MRCVS

Mark Elliott, BVSc, MRCVS

Peter Gregory, BVSc, MRCVS

Lise Hansen, DVM, MRCVS

John Hoare, BVSc, MRCVS

Graham Hines, BVSc, MRCVS

Megan Kearney, BVSc, MRCVS

Michelle L'oste Brown, BVetMed, MRCVS

Suzi McIntyre, BVSc, MRCVS

Siobhan Menzies, BVM&S, MRCVS

Nazrene Moosa, BVSc, MRCVS

Mike Nolan, BVSc, MRCVS

Ilse Pedler, MA, VetMB, BSc, MRCVS

John Saxton, BVetMed, MRCVS

Cheryl Sears, MVB, MRCVS

Jane Seymour, BVSc, MRCVS

Christine Shields, BVSc, MRCVS

Suzannah Stacey, BVSc, MRCVS

Phillip Stimpson, MA, VetMB, MRCVS

Nick Thompson, BSc, BVM&S, MRCVS

Lyn Thompson, BVSc, MRCVS

Wendy Vere, VetMB, MA, MRCVS

Anuska Viljoen, BVSc, MRCVS, and

Wendy Vink, BVSc, MRCVS

[Nadia]

I'm sorry but people who DO NOT vaccinate their dog have obviously never lost a dog to any of the disease. I lost a little cattle pup from parvo and it was awlful, bloody diarrhoea, vomiting the lot, she had an exceptionally poor start to her 10week life.

You are probably the kind of people that don't vaccinate your kids either!!

This really frustrates me when I here about people NOT vaccinating, for gods sake be serious about your dogs health!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gusgem,

I think you will find the people on here that do not OVER vaccinate are VERY serious about their dogs health!!

Ever seen a whole litter of babies suffer from vaccine reaction?

I work in the Veterinary Industry and have for over 20 years.

I have bred dogs and other animals for longer.

I believe I take my animals health VERY seriously.

I do not believe in ANNUAL vaccinations and I do not believe in bombarding baby puppies immune systems with multiple combined vaccines.

Yes I have seen animals die from Parvo. I have also nursed animals with Auto Immune Disease post vaccination.

I have never lost an animal myself to one of these diseases.

Read a bit more about vaccination or at least give those of us that have researched this subject some credit,

[jordelette]

23 years of vet nursing & I have not come across a bad reaction to a vaccine . Nursed plenty of parvo cases though , VERY unpleasant !!!!

[Rebanne]

I'm sorry but people who DO NOT vaccinate their dog have obviously never lost a dog to any of the disease. I lost a little cattle pup from parvo and it was awlful, bloody diarrhoea, vomiting the lot, she had an exceptionally poor start to her 10week life.

You are probably the kind of people that don't vaccinate your kids either!!

This really frustrates me when I here about people NOT vaccinating, for gods sake be serious about your dogs health!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) :D

And what gives you the right to judge other people? How would you like it if I came on here and said you are the one who is being irresponsible and you are poisoning your dog with all those mutliple vaccines and no doubt multiple chemical treatments. I seen dogs die from parvo but I do not believe yearly vaccines are needed. Neither does my vet. And a vet who most strongly believes in yearly vaccinations told me they had a lot of cats lately who have reacted badly to the vaccine. My daughter had her course of vaccinations as needed, she don't have have it repeated every damn year nor do my pets.

Where do you get off being so self righteous you self opinionated *$@

[aus_k9gsd]

I have a dog that has had a reaction to vaccinations since a pup (so it does happen)but each year the reaction was getting worse and worse, so do you suggest i keep vaccinating him each year until it finally kills him......i think not

So yes i am very serious about my dogs health and he will never be vaccinated again

I am also a firm believer in not over vaccinating

Edited January 6, 2005 by aus_k9gsd

[gusgem]

Ok well you guys do what you want with your dogs......

Was just curious, if any of you trial or show your dogs, I thought when you signed down the bottom of the entry form, you were signing that your dogs were fully covered against vaccinatible disease?

[Ci]

I didn't want this to turn into an arguement, can we please stay civil!

I think it is well known agreed fact that we sholdn't be over vaccinacting our pets.

But we should be vaccinating at some stages in order to keep certain dieases under control.

[Rebanne]

I thought when you signed down the bottom of the entry form, you were signing that your dogs were fully covered against vaccinatible disease?

But my dogs are fully immunised. My vet agrees. They just don't get yearly boosters nor do they get kennel cough. Kennel cough doesn't cover all the varieties that are out there, only a couple of strains, as far as I'm concerned it just like a flu shot. And some times vaccines fail. No one can guarentee their dog is 100% fully vaccinated against disease.

Tatum is in a different boat all together because of her vaccine reaction but as she is not trialling etc I don't have to worry about it.

[westielover]

Hi gusgem - westielover here!!!!

I didn't vaccinate Winston & Riley this year - they have been vaccainted for the past 4 & 3 years. However - i did the titer test this year and their immune levels exceeded the minimum requirement so the vet told me not to vaccinate this year.

The vet said that she had titer tested 70 dogs this year and only 1 dog needed a vaccination top up. The vet also told me that Kennels are starting to accept titer test certifactes as proof of immunisation.

Also - my vet told me that Sydney Uni Vet School graduates are being taught a new protocol with regard to vaccinations - I beleive it will something like every 3 years. They will still be doing the puppy vaccinations - but then every 3 years. Anyway - I am sure it will take a while for this to work it's way thru to all vet clinics.

Now I know you had a bad experience with parvo - but research is starting to indicate that over vaccinating may be the cause of compromised immune systems and if a dog has a compromised immune system - it's unlikely that the vaccination will help the dog, as the immune system will 'reject' the vaccination and this still leaves the dog exposed to diseases.

I did a heap of research about this this and I also spoke to a westie breeder in the USA and she hardly vaccinates - if she needs to - she uses homeopathis nosodes. She reckons she has had the healthiest dogs since she stopped over vaccinating them. She's also a vet nurse, a homeopath & long time westie breeder. Westies are prone to skin conditions and she hasn't had any problems in the last 8 years since she stopped over vaccinating.

Gusgem - I am very concerned with Winston's & Riley's health - you know what I'm like with my boys - and this year I thought it was in their best interest not to vaccinate based on the test results. Also Riley had a bit of a skin problem last year after he was vaccinated - it took about 3 months to fix it. Hence my decision this year.

See ya at the park gusgem!!