Food, For Skin Probs

[sas]

Hi Juice,

I'd eliminate any grains from Mase's diet. Many Bull Terriers are intolerant to grain/cereal. If possible feed Mase a raw diet Join the raw4bullies List. A fantastic group of Bull Terrier owners who feed raw and will help with raw feeding questions Many of the dogs on the List had allergy problems before switching to a raw and grain free diet ;)

I'd also add fish oil to Mase's diet. Some people will suggest Flax Seed Oil, but flax seed is a grain.

And why is your breed so sensitive to commerical diets? Maybe this is something to address first?

Edited February 1, 2010 by sas

[sas]

we have had bloods done 3 times, first one was thyroid test.

i know optimum isn't a premium food, but to be brutally honest, single mum with 2 kids and 3 dogs, and self employed, so trying to keep within my budget if poss.

if i have to go o the more expensive food, i will, just trying this option first. but looking like eagle pack for him, and keep the other 2 on optimum. ;)

will look at royal canin too.

I feed my dog $100 bag every week to every week and a half and it hasn't fixed his allergies nor did raw food, food isn't the be all to skin problems.

[poodlefan]

The dogs of yester-year were fed junk food for dogs with all the things with frown upon these days and didn't have the problems dogs these days do to the degree they do. I'm not saying the food isn't the issue but I certainly don't think it's productive to be the first thing to jump on.

The feeding of cooked, cereal based dog food is a 20th century development. Prior to that dogs pretty much survived on meat and scraps.

Modern dog foods have pretty much eliminated rickets but they do bring their share of issues. A simple elimination diet that removes cereals is worth a try.

Dr Christine Zink recommends an elimination diet of white fish and potato. That might not be too expensive to try.

[sas]

The dogs of yester-year were fed junk food for dogs with all the things with frown upon these days and didn't have the problems dogs these days do to the degree they do. I'm not saying the food isn't the issue but I certainly don't think it's productive to be the first thing to jump on.

The feeding of cooked, cereal based dog food is a 20th century development. Prior to that dogs pretty much survived on meat and scraps.

Modern dog foods have pretty much eliminated rickets but they do bring their share of issues. A simple elimination diet that removes cereals is worth a try.

Dr Christine Zink recommends an elimination diet of white fish and potato. That might not be too expensive to try.

Dogs of yester-year were fed mainly on tin food actually.

I'm sure you agree that the Owner of the dog should first follow the advice of the Vet and use the Malaseb, that way you know whether the problem is bacterial or not then you can go ahead and play with elimination diets with a Derm not a know it all behind a computer screen?

[poodlefan]

I'm sure you agree that the Owner of the dog should first follow the advice of the Vet and use the Malaseb, that way you know whether the problem is bacterial or not then you can go ahead and play with elimination diets with a Derm not a know it all behind a computer screen?

Oooh, you must be talking about me. ;) Strangely you seem just as emphatic in your opinions as you accuse me of being. Go figure.

I don't think vets are God. Quite a few don't know the very much about allergies and cortizone is their usual line of treatment. A dermo Vet would be a good place to start. So would a holistic vet.

Drugs mask allergy symptoms, they don't cure them. The dogs was scraped so I assume that a bacterial infection was eliminated. So too were thryroid issues.

Fact is the OP is NOT happy with the dog's progress so a few suggestions seemed warranted. If you're feeding an expensive gluten based dog food, I'd not expect to see a good result on a dog with allergies btw not matter what it costs .. assuming that's the issue.

Have a nice day.

Edited February 1, 2010 by poodlefan

[juice]

bully's are prone to skin problems, i had one before

when he first arrived here, beginning of dec, he had a few patch's but things got worse over 2/3 weeks, could well be something in my garden.i only have lawn, and gardenia's and those purple plants, ( think they are yesterday, today, tommorrow?)

however i think feeding supercoat wasn't my best move ;)

i took him to the vet, due to his skin, and the fact his doodle was a bit inflamed, she gave cortisone for the skin, and antibiotics for doodle, we also did a scrape then.

10 days later his skin was worse, not better, thats when she thought it might be someting else, so embarked on lots of tests

now she has suggested i try the different food, if nothing works, she suggests going to a skin specialist next, don't think she is very knowledgeable in this area. :D

the malasab does "calm down" the skin when its pink. he also had flea's when he got here, so that wouldn't have helped. :D

[centitout]

There are heaps of allergenic plants most arent even aware of,and if he has come from a different area could be a possible?

It always helps to have a really good look at what grasses you have,plants,feeds etc,that way when you do go to the derm you have a list they can tick off ,cant always think on the spot

I had a german shep/malamute 15 years ago that started to get itchy,bald patches,smelly skin etc ,elimination diets were tried first,sh ewas allergic to pretty much all meat protein,could have 500 gm lamb over the week,rest was rice/veg.She did have the intra dermal tests done to confirm.This was before the days of the allergy free brands.

And dogs of yesteryear were fed mainly meat/organs/fish and sometimes cooked oats etc from the info i have from an old bloodhound book from the uk.It is no co incidence that allergies are on the rise in both human s and canines-why?

[Swiss Girl]

The fish/potato is quite cheap to do, I did it years ago with my god, you can purchase a kibble, but I found tins of fish and boiling my own potatoes fairly reasonable. Watch out for tuna/sardine tines on sale and stock up.

I also used the Malaseb, weekly when needed, remember to leave it on for 10 minutes whenever washing. If found it really helped her itchiness.

Dog diets are for a minimum of 6 weeks, even though you could expect some results to show before that.

I just copied the below to another topic, so I'll copy it here as well, this is the list we used to work our way through our last dogs problems, it starts from the cheapest/easiest to diagnose and works it way to the hardest. It may give you a few ideas that your vet may not have mentioned.

There are 2 common reasons for dogs to be itchy- mite infestation & allergic reactions. Mites are diagnosed by skin scrapings & you need to see your vet. Signs of allergies include chewing at skin, licking, rubbing up, scooting(rubbing bottom along the ground), chewing/licking at feet, chronic ear irritation, chronic watery eyes & sneezing.

We can divide skin allergies into 5 general areas:

1) Flea Allergies- usually chewing/scratching around tail base or around neck, but can be itchy anywhere. It takes only 1 flea to cause an allergy, which is why some dogs that have very few fleas can be itchier than a dog with many fleas that isn't allergic. Often seasonal (Spring/Summer), but can be all year round.

2) Food Allergies- often will be itchy around the face, ears and feet, although can be itchy all over. Most common allergens include wheat products (found in most canned and dry foods), beef, and to a lesser degree chicken. Allergies will occur all year round.

3) Contact Allergies- are quite uncommon, and usually affect areas with no or little fur cover eg. abdomen and feet. Allergens include grasses, plants, clothing/carpet fibres and many others. Often seasonal, but can be all year.

4) Inhaled Allergies- are quite common, and affect all areas ie. skin, feet, ears, face, eye, nose etc.. Most common are grass pollens, plant pollens, dust mites, and moulds (found normally in most environments). Often seasonal, but can be all year.

5)Allergies to the normal bacteria found on the skin- called Staph. These often show slightly different signs to other allergies- need a vet to confirm. Often all year round.

All allergies can cause itchiness anywhere, so it is impossible to tell just on appearances which allergen is causing the problem. Many dogs are allergic to several.

TREATMENT There are 2 main options when trying to deal with allergies:-.

1 Discovering the Cause- 2 allergies can be eliminated easily are flea & food.

* a) If fleas are present, it is worthwhile trying to eliminate them first.

* b) If food allergy is suspected, trial dog on low allergy food diet, must be done for 8 weeks, The diet consists of:- Meat that the dog hasn't had before eg. fish, kangaroo, rabbit and one other product, consider rice/potato/carrot but most not be part of their original diet.

After 8 weeks there should be improvement, if not an allergy test is next.

This is a test for inhaled allergens, and tests plants, grasses, trees, dust mites and moulds. Done by blood samples. - if all of the above has been performed to no avail, then a contact allergy, or inhaled allergen not included in the allergy test is most likely. try change of bedding and all detergents including washing products and shampoo, you can also send your dog to a relative's place for 3-4 weeks.

2 Other medications -

* (a) Antihistamines-. these work better with evening primrose oil (1-4 capsules in food) antihistamines to try include:- Phenergan, Periactin, Polaramine, Teldane Contact your vet for dosage, determined by weight.

* (b) Anti-allergy shampoos and conditioners- There are many that help, eg. tea tree preparations, eucalyptus rinses, Quit Itch Lotion & Malaseb

[sas]

I'm sure you agree that the Owner of the dog should first follow the advice of the Vet and use the Malaseb, that way you know whether the problem is bacterial or not then you can go ahead and play with elimination diets with a Derm not a know it all behind a computer screen?

Oooh, you must be talking about me. Strangely you seem just as emphatic in your opinions as you accuse me of being. Go figure.

I don't think vets are God. Quite a few don't know the very much about allergies and cortizone is their usual line of treatment. A dermo Vet would be a good place to start. So would a holistic vet.

Drugs mask allergy symptoms, they don't cure them. The dogs was scraped so I assume that a bacterial infection was eliminated. So too were thryroid issues.

Fact is the OP is NOT happy with the dog's progress so a few suggestions seemed warranted. If you're feeding an expensive gluten based dog food, I'd not expect to see a good result on a dog with allergies btw not matter what it costs .. assuming that's the issue.

Have a nice day.

Oh, so I would be the know it all when I tell the person to follow the advice of their Vet rather than an armchair expert? Get a grip.

The Owners Vet didn't say use cortisone, they said use Malaseb.

Let the Owner follow the advice of their Vet considering this is their 1st step not their 6th unsuccessful step.

Edited February 3, 2010 by sas

[lillim]

We wash our dog with Maleseb fortnightly, and when she has a nasty flare up, we wash the affected area with Maleseb daily.

A product I've found really helpful for relieving the particualry itchy areas which you can't apply cortisone cream directly to the skin to because of fur is a cortisone spray called Cortavance.

Any food elimination diet you put the dog on, is not going to show results for 4 weeks or so, and any supplements you add to the dogs diet such as fish oil will also not have instant results. I think it took about 6 weeks to see any improvement in our dogs skin and fur when she started on the Omega Oil and I never saw improvement for the 8 weeks she was on rosehip & fish oil capsules.

There is Science Hill Z/D which is a dry food made for dogs with allergies or on elimination diets, other than the weird smell, we found it easier to use this than trying different combinations of foods.

We have tried elimination diets, scoured the yard and house for possible plants and things that could be cause of the dogs allergies, swapped to all natural cleaning products in case it was chemicals. In the end we took the dog to get an allergy test and it turned out to be dustmites and storage mites, so no matter what you try, it could just be something you don't know and can't possibly know about until you get the test done.

[D & D]

those purple plants, ( think they are yesterday, today, tommorrow?)

If they are Brunfelsia (aka yesterday today and tomorrow), the plants whose flowers start off purple and fade to almost white, they are pretty toxic to dogs. Get rid of them if you can, or maybe block them off from the dogs?

I found this out when I was going to put some in my garden

[centitout]

Yes,they would be Brunsfelsia (grew up in a nursery :D )there are so many toxic plants/allergenic plants though.

Tomatoes,ivy,yew,potato vine(related to deadly nightshade)euphorbias,oleander iris,any of the bulb esp jonquils/daffodils,arums,digitalis(foxgloves) and so many others.Contact allergenic/irritant plants are conifers,Rhus tree(toxiodendren) most grevilleas and a few other natives,wandering jew,alot of grasses etc.

[juice]

yep, thats them, i have 3 in a row against the back fence, he wee's up them all the time.

i will remove them, and put in gardenia's all the way round.

don't want to tempt fate, but after looking really bad last week, dare i say his skin is starting to look better, still patchy, but no more have appeared, and the ones that are there, are now just bald, not scabby or flaky. fingers crossed this is the turnaround. :D