sandgrubber Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I've been following the "Litters due in" lists and seeing, sadly, that I'm not the only one who looses pups in whelping. A bitch belonging to a friend of mine recently had a litter of 8. They were uneven in size. About halfway, a pup got stuck. She got the stuck pup out, but lost it, and also lost and two after it. The last pup also got stuck and she had to do an emergency Ceasar for one dead pup. My Jarrah has twice had 10 and lost 3 of them, not born defective, rather suffocating in delivery. I've heard so many sad stories that I chickened out this time and put her in for a Ceasar. She now has 10 very healthy fat pups. There's a sort of stigma round doing Ceasars. Just wondering if others think it's worth rethinking this attitude, especially for girls who can free whelp, but have a history of loosing pups. . . .especially for large litters . . . especially if you have a vet that is very good at doing Ceasars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 There's no stigma for me in these circumstances and I've done the same myself - well intended to but the bitch went into labour three days early and had already delivered 2 dead pups by the time the vet managed to put in an appearance She had two more by caesar perfectly fine and healthy. I didn't persist with the line though, but this was only one of the reasons for the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I'd rather NOT do it, but would certainly consider it on a case by case basis. As is documented here in another thread, I gave serious thought to an elective c-section for my Stafford bitch based upon my location, size of litter and family history. In the end my vet and I decided against it, BUT circumstances arose where it was necessary anyway. Thankfully it wasn't considered an "emergency" in the true sense of the word in that we had time up our sleeves to prep and call in extra staff etc etc, but the reality is that had we not done it that day and waited until it possibly WAS an emergency, or even delayed by a couple of days for an elective section, I probably wouldn't have any puppies now as the placentas had separated and a couple of the puppies had meconium in their sacs. What will I do next time? I don't know. The vet seems to think the labour would have progressed had it not been such a large litter with the horns of the uterus all entangled in, around and under each other. So, I think next time, provided she isn't as enormous as she is this time, I will give her the benefit of the doubt and trial by labour. BUT....if she even LOOKS like having as large a litter next time as she did this time (9 puppies but possibly 11 as two puppies had double sacs, breed average 5 - 6) then it will be a section all the way and probably no more litters after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogs xoxo Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 One of my girls had previously had long hard labours resulting in lost puppies. I chose to do a C-section even though she would have whelped her puppies on her own to avoid loss of puppies and the strain on her. I would do it again if I had another girl like her. Fingers crossed my current girls are great free whelpers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Absolutely, its a horrid thing to do to the mom but to lose the whole reason for the mating in the first place through a birth that has headed south is just as bad IMO. Why put the mom through all that for nothing. Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Its a dilemma i am having currently. One of my bitches has had 2 very hard labours resulting in oxytocin injections, long delays and very nearly - a trip to the vet for a section. Both times resulted in lost puppies. I am considering doing a c section on her next time, as much as i hate the thought of putting a scar on her uterus, it might be a consideration, especially if she has more than 4 pups. I do believe however, that once i section my girls, i would have to do it agan and wouldnt be happy allowing them to free whelp with subsequent litters. Which makes me hesitate doing it to begin with! Edited to say - I also know of 2 bitches that have died post operatively following a section, so it makes it a very tough decision. A caesarian is a major surgical procedure and carries many risks with it also. I would rather lose pups than any of my girls. Edited January 30, 2010 by Whipitgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 That is a dilemma Whipitgood. To be honest though, in line with my "new" "less is more" intervention policy, I don't think I'd bother breeding with the girl who has hard labours any more. What are her daughters' labours like?? If they too have "hard" labours then that would be something I think I'd work at eliminating from my lines. I'm walking a fine line with Koda in that regard. I was fully prepared to have her speyed on the table when my vet did the section this time, but he honestly felt that she should be given another opportunity. I'm happy to be guided by that but if she even LOOKS like having the same (or slightly similar) issues next time then that is it for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whipitgood Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 What are her daughters' labours like?? If they too have "hard" labours then that would be something I think I'd work at eliminating from my lines. Ive only had 2 litters with her and the pick of the litters have been dogs, so ive not run on any bitches yet so i wouldnt know! Her dam was a beautiful whelper and producer. If i had bitches that just outright could not whelp and needed caesarians each time then sure, i would not use them in my breeding program again. But a slow whelper with long breaks who becomes fatigued - im not willing to eliminate her just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 (edited) My Jarrah (discussed in the initial post on this thread) has two daughters and a granddaughter who have had litters. All are excellent whelpers, and like their mum, think a 'litter' means 10 pups. Edited January 31, 2010 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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