Rspca Serves Warrant On Dogs Vic

[poodlefan]

I'm afraid you both have far more confidence in the system that I have.....

Until we know what's going on, how much confidence we have is irrelevant. Someone had enough evidence of an offence to convince a judge to issue a warrant. That warrant has been served.

Lets see who, if anyone is charged and what they're charged with.

Those who've stayed within the law should sleep soundly. Others may sweat but the fact is that the RSPCA can only enforce the law that's on the books. To be ignorant or disregarding of that is what will put people in the RSPCA's crosshairs,

And frankly not all those who find themselves targetted will be folk I'd want defend. Lets wait and see.

[poodlefan]

Unfortunately the RSPCA don't act on their own with investigations like this - they simply don't have the resources. Someone from within our own ranks has supplied them with information to act on. Someone has dobbed in their competition. This is why the dog world will never beat these stupid legislations - it will always be 'win at all costs'. What a disgrace.

For all we know Bisart it could be a puppy buyer. God knows there are breeders who turn a deaf ear when a pup has problems.

[Danois]

I'm afraid you both have far more confidence in the system that I have.....

Until we know what's going on, how much confidence we have is irrelevant. Someone had enough evidence of an offence to convince a judge to issue a warrant. That warrant has been served.

Lets see who, if anyone is charged and what they're charged with.

Those who've stayed within the law should sleep soundly. Others may sweat but the fact is that the RSPCA can only enforce the law that's on the books. To be ignorant or disregarding of that is what will put people in the RSPCA's crosshairs,

And frankly not all those who find themselves targetted will be folk I'd want defend. Lets wait and see.

Agreed.

If they are in fact chasing breeders who have knowingly bred dogs with heritable defects then perhaps it is time that this caught up with them and serves as a warning to others who following similar practices.

This action, as well as Judy Gard's case, should be causing all breeders and exhibitors to step back for a moment and ensure that their practices are above scutiny and this is not necessarily a bad thing.

[WreckitWhippet]

How can you be above their scrutiny ? They play their own game by their own rules.

I have nothing to hide in my home and my dogs are very well cared for, but if they wanted to screw me over, they sure as hell could.

[poodlefan]

How can you be above their scrutiny ? They play their own game by their own rules.

I have nothing to hide in my home and my dogs are very well cared for, but if they wanted to screw me over, they sure as hell could.

They can only enforce the laws on the books. It has to be a breach of one of those that the warrant is gathering evidence for.

[Danois]

How can you be above their scrutiny ? They play their own game by their own rules.

I have nothing to hide in my home and my dogs are very well cared for, but if they wanted to screw me over, they sure as hell could.

Yes they play their own game but they still have to convince a court.

What I meant was look at what the law defines as cruelty and then ensure that any dogs debarked are done according to the regulations, dogs with heritable defects not bred from, kennel conditions adequate, any natural tails documented by vets etc.

[Rebanne]

dogs with heritable defects not bred from,

yes but that includes carriers and my understanding is you can be the most ethical breeder ever born but if you breed a carrier to a clear, no matter that all pups are then DNA tested, carrier pups either desexed or kept by the breeder, you are breaking the law. Which means a whole lot of good dogs are out of the breeding program, even though they and any pups they might produce will not be affected by the disease. But the BYBer's can still carry on.

[poodlefan]

dogs with heritable defects not bred from,

yes but that includes carriers and my understanding is you can be the most ethical breeder ever born but if you breed a carrier to a clear, no matter that all pups are then DNA tested, carrier pups either desexed or kept by the breeder, you are breaking the law. Which means a whole lot of good dogs are out of the breeding program, even though they and any pups they might produce will not be affected by the disease. But the BYBer's can still carry on.

BYBs are caught by the same law. If you can demonstrate that your breeding will not produce dogs with heritable defects, I'd say that's a defence. Time will tell.

[Jed]

There are such a lot of infringements to choose from - docking, debarking, recklessly breeding, not weaning the pups at 3 weeks, not giving them, or the dogs, individual bowls, not getting the bitch checked by the vet post whelping --- the list goes on and on.

I hope Vic owners and breeders know the legislation thoroughly.

The most frightening thing is that they can take your dogs to some horrible pound, as they did with Judy Gard's dogs, chop bits out of their show coats, do invasive procedures, as they did with asal\s dogs and return them to you, with filthy diseases, costing a mint for the vet to fix, after you have spent 3 or 4 grand on legal fees to get them back,

It's one of those days when I think it would be simpler to be an unregistered breeder, no records at an easily accessed place, no pubic addres, no names, no pack drill, happily flying under the radar.

[Sandra777]

Yes they play their own game but they still have to convince a court.

They may have to convince a court, but in the meantime they can keep your dogs in the most horrendous conditions and ruin them for life. Having done nothing wrong is no defence.

[SpikesPuppy]

Terrifying :p As others have said- it's not whether or not you've done anything wrong but until you get your day in court, the trauma & distress they can cause by arriving at your door with their entourage, seizing your dogs and marching all over your home.....

I find the legislation difficult to understand- I had a uni lecturer (practising prosecutor) go over the legislation for me recently and she could barely make heads or tails of it

[lappiemum]

dogs with heritable defects not bred from,

yes but that includes carriers and my understanding is you can be the most ethical breeder ever born but if you breed a carrier to a clear, no matter that all pups are then DNA tested, carrier pups either desexed or kept by the breeder, you are breaking the law. Which means a whole lot of good dogs are out of the breeding program, even though they and any pups they might produce will not be affected by the disease. But the BYBer's can still carry on.

it depends on the heritable disease. Late onset PRA is in my breed, and some breeders are breeding carrier to clears, which is legal. I know for a fact one of these breeders has not tested the progeny from the last carrier litter, and this is perfectly fine with the legislation, that only states a breeder should test all the litter, not must. The breeding program for the Vic Breed club states that in terms of carrier to clear matings, only dogs and bitches intended for breeding need to be tested for PRA status, so there is nothing to compell the testing of carrier to clear litters - its up to the breeder.

Edited January 26, 2010 by lappiemum

[oakway]

There are such a lot of infringements to choose from - docking, debarking, recklessly breeding, not weaning the pups at 3 weeks, not giving them, or the dogs, individual bowls, not getting the bitch checked by the vet post whelping --- the list goes on and on.

I hope Vic owners and breeders know the legislation thoroughly.

The most frightening thing is that they can take your dogs to some horrible pound, as they did with Judy Gard's dogs, chop bits out of their show coats, do invasive procedures, as they did with asal\s dogs and return them to you, with filthy diseases, costing a mint for the vet to fix, after you have spent 3 or 4 grand on legal fees to get them back,

It's one of those days when I think it would be simpler to be an unregistered breeder, no records at an easily accessed place, no pubic addres, no names, no pack drill, happily flying under the radar.

You never said a truer word.

[Silvawilow]

yes but that includes carriers and my understanding is you can be the most ethical breeder ever born but if you breed a carrier to a clear, no matter that all pups are then DNA tested, carrier pups either desexed or kept by the breeder, you are breaking the law. Which means a whole lot of good dogs are out of the breeding program, even though they and any pups they might produce will not be affected by the disease. But the BYBer's can still carry on.

My understanding is that you can breed carrier to clear so long as it's part of a recognised "breeding program". That's where I get confused, is it your breeding program or does the vca/breed club have to endorse the breeding of carrier to clear in your breed?

BYBs are caught by the same law.

Not to the extent that registered breeders are. BYB/Puppy farms, generally, do not DNA test (are there even test for oodles?) so for them to be caught out it'll take one of their puppy buyers to get a puppy with a HD to report them to DPI/RSPCA. Whereas a lot of registered breeders DNA test so are easier targets.

[Crisovar]

There are such a lot of infringements to choose from - docking, debarking, recklessly breeding, not weaning the pups at 3 weeks, not giving them, or the dogs, individual bowls, not getting the bitch checked by the vet post whelping --- the list goes on and on.

I hope Vic owners and breeders know the legislation thoroughly.

The most frightening thing is that they can take your dogs to some horrible pound, as they did with Judy Gard's dogs, chop bits out of their show coats, do invasive procedures, as they did with asal\s dogs and return them to you, with filthy diseases, costing a mint for the vet to fix, after you have spent 3 or 4 grand on legal fees to get them back,

It's one of those days when I think it would be simpler to be an unregistered breeder, no records at an easily accessed place, no pubic addres, no names, no pack drill, happily flying under the radar.

It is frightening, but in typical dog world fashion most will sit back and say, it doesn't affect me, I'm all good, what a horrible person "X" must be to attract the attention the RSPCA, that to me is the scary bit.

I hope all you folks are enjoying what you have with your dogs now, because I seriously doubt that you will be able to do too much in 20 years time.

[Hastings]

Was told by a friend who spoke to Elizabeth White yesterday that the RSPCA turned up with a warrent and were given records of one breeder, talk is that it is someone who has docked tails. At this point the RSPCA has more powers than the police, god help us all.

I have an import here who really needs to be debarked, he is very vocal around tea time, surely it would be better to have his voice lowered than for me to be yelling at him and threatening him to shut up all the time. But thats not going to happen now as THEY say it is cruel.

Also testing is fine, and I do all of mine, but what happens when something crops up that there is no test for? I have had 2 dogs seizure , late on set, and no idea where it is coming from, have chased breeders all over the world and pedigrees etc, only learning that in reality we all have the capabilities to produce it, with the lines we have here now, and no DNA test for it at all. Breeding is in the lap of the gods and most of us do our best, but try and tell the RSPCA that.

Hope if the breeder they are after is in the wrong they are punished, BUT if they are on a witch hunt it will be worse for us all

[angelsun]

Most RSPCA officers wouldn't know breed specific hereditary conditions if they tripped over them....They should be more worried about the dogs out there left suffering in the heat, tied to trees or the bitches having litters every season....those dogs don't generally belong to registered breeders....it's too bad that monetary resources are spent on things like this when in my opinion, there are far bigger fish to fry.

[angelsun]

Was told by a friend who spoke to Elizabeth White yesterday that the RSPCA turned up with a warrent and were Hope if the breeder they are after is in the wrong they are punished, BUT if they are on a witch hunt it will be worse for us all

Even if this breeder is found innocent of an alleged violation....this sort of thing does irreputable damage to a reputation that may have taken years to establish. There are many cases of innocent people having things twisted to suit an agenda...in this case, I beleive that the RSPCA are out to 'set examples'.....but remember folks..someone had to notify them for them to put into motion an enquiry....disgruntled competition maybe? Don't laugh...happens all the time!

[nynka]

Most RSPCA officers wouldn't know breed specific hereditary conditions if they tripped over them....They should be more worried about the dogs out there left suffering in the heat, tied to trees or the bitches having litters every season....those dogs don't generally belong to registered breeders....it's too bad that monetary resources are spent on things like this when in my opinion, there are far bigger fish to fry.

Aah, agreed, but you see it's much quicker and easier to fry the small fish.............

[jerojath]

Most RSPCA officers wouldn't know breed specific hereditary conditions if they tripped over them....They should be more worried about the dogs out there left suffering in the heat, tied to trees or the bitches having litters every season....those dogs don't generally belong to registered breeders....it's too bad that monetary resources are spent on things like this when in my opinion, there are far bigger fish to fry.