My Poor Little Pug With Bad Luck

[Snout Girl]

Hi all

Bert was desexed today, all went well with his op, he is sleeping on my feet as we speak ;)

i asked them to check his airways whilst under anthesetic (sp) as i know pugs can be prone to develping elongated soft palates.

well it wasnt good news. we have not noticed any problems with his breathing and he doesnt have a cough, but apparently he has weak larynx muscles and they are falling into the airway of the arytenoid cartilages.

the vet recommended we see a specialist and surgery will most likely be required :p

have made an appointment for wednesday for a speciliast that came highly recommended as one of the best in the field.

has anyone elses dogs suffered this? what can i expect? does surgery cure the problem?

sorry for all the questions, am a little upset that poor little bert needs what sounds like a big operation

anyone else had this experience?

Edited January 27, 2010 by bertandsally

[HugUrPup]

Contact ~Anne~ she knows heaps about it.

[CavsRcute]

I thought my Cavalier had to have her long soft palate resected and was told that it wasn't huge operation but it should be done by a specialist.

It usually involves an overnight stay.

Just to give you an idea, my girl had her tonsils out last week-they were 4 times bigger that they should have been, with changing cells.

She had her operation at midday on the Monday and I brought her home on Tuesday afternoon.

She had pain relief, antibiotics and was given an inti inflammatorie for any swelling. Soft food when she came home and by Friday i could see the change in her demeanor. Stopped the pain relief after 3 days at home and she is back to her normal diet.

I believe the soft palate operation and after effects are very similar.

Good luck

[~Anne~]

Surgery will alleviate the problem to some extent. To my knowledge, they will operate to open up the airways as much as possible to alleviate the pressure of the larynx and to prevent a collapse of the cartilages.

Sadly, it is not a good start to his life though however, with careful mamangement, surgery and prevention, he should live to a nice age. You must be even more cautious with him though compared to even other Pugs. He will be more at risk of breathing complications for life and will need to be kept very fit and healthy. Keep the weight off him, walk him regularly, avoid the heat and humidity.

Is this little guy a pedigree? If so, contact his breeder and let them know of the issue.

[Snout Girl]

hi cavsrescue thanks for sharing your experience with your little baby- I'm glad she is on the mend ;)

anne- wow your post made me doubly concerned, my vet gave me the impression that the operation would alleviate the problem completely and he would lead a normal life?

he is a pedigree, and i will contact his breeder and let her know, but when i wrote and told her he had PK she replied to the email but didnt mention the PK issue at all

i have my fingers crossed for my poor i love the little bugger so much :p

[~Anne~]

What is the cause of the PK?

[Snout Girl]

What is the cause of the PK?

At first they thought it was trauma to the eye (he cut his eye on a biscuit and got an ulcer) but at the last appointment he said it was in both eyes but it is now responding really well to the eye drops and has almost disappeared entirely except for the small scar where the ulcer was :p

when i asked what would cause the pk he said it was just one of those things dogs with bulging eyes can suffer from and bert was lucky his eyes responded so well adn we caught it so early.

[Snout Girl]

Its strange I've been reading all about the condition in various veteniary journals, and nearly all say that dogs with this problem have a awful cough, 'kind of like a goose honking'. bert never coughs and appears to have no problems breathing.

guess i'll just have to wait for the specialist :p

[~Anne~]

PK is caused by irritation. Irritation can be caused by dry eye, distichiasis, entropian and exposure (also called keratopathy). Keratopathy is caused by the inability of the eyelids to close over the eyeball. Unless you treat the problem, it is almost like chasing your tail. If it is keratopathy they can sometimes operate to enable the eye to full close. If it is dry eye, the most common thing is to treat for life with drops, both distichiasis and entropian can be fixed through surgery as well. It sounds like your Vet thinks perhaos it is dry eye or keratopathy?

[~Anne~]

Its strange I've been reading all about the condition in various veteniary journals, and nearly all say that dogs with this problem have a awful cough, 'kind of like a goose honking'. bert never coughs and appears to have no problems breathing.

guess i'll just have to wait for the specialist :p

He is only young though isn't he?

In my experience, dogs rarely show symptoms until they reach at least 18 months of age. Some that have severe cases obviously show them much earlier but these are rare. I have heard of a few in the US where the larynx have collapsed in young pups but I have never heard of that happening here in Aus.

I am sure he will be fine. We have put several rescues through brachy surgery and they have all recovered successfully, so it is all good.

Edited January 25, 2010 by ~Anne~

[Snout Girl]

Hi Anne

Thanks for your informative responses. Am a bit emotional at the moment, my beloved cat of 12 years passed away suddenly last saturday and I think it woke me up to the fragile nature of pets. then this happened with bert and i got really scared and couldnt breathe for a while. i love my dogs more than life itself and the thought that they wouldnt be around....well it frightened me. its just the state of mind i am in at the moment.

but i do appreciate your responses, I will know more wednesday morning after we visit the specialist.

[PuggaWuggles]

Hi all

Bert was desexed today, all went well with his op, he is sleeping on my feet as we speak

i asked them to check his airways whilst under anthesetic (sp) as i know pugs can be prone to develping elongated soft palates.

well it wasnt good news. we have not noticed any problems with his breathing and he doesnt have a cough, but apparently he has weak larynx muscles and they are falling into the airway of the arytenoid cartilages.

the vet recommended we see a specialist and surgery will most likely be required

have made an appointment for wednesday for a speciliast that came highly recommended as one of the best in the field.

has anyone elses dogs suffered this? what can i expect? does surgery cure the problem?

sorry for all the questions, am a little upset that poor little bert needs what sounds like a big operation ;)

anyone else had this experience?

Hi BertandSally,

I am so sorry to hear that.The same happened withWugs.They opened him up to desex him,what they thought was a testicle,was a fat sack,so he got sewn up again and we were told to bring him back in 3-4 months,asked to pay 1/2 the price for desexing,and then told,oh,and he has an Elongated soft pallet.

We were told that they can operate on his pallet when they desex him again next time,as it can all be done at the same time,and they told us it was not a very expensive operation.

Where is the luck hey??

I hope Bert is ok and everything goes smoothly for you.

Please keep me infomed.

[Snout Girl]

Hi Pugga

I'm sorry to hear what happened with Wuggles, it must be really frustrating psyching yourself and your boy up for the op only to find out he underwent antisthetic for nothing.

I took bert in this morning to the specialist with bert they dont think its the soft palatte rather the arytenoids (whatever they are). the specialist was quite confused with what my vet had said was wrong, as he said bert's breathing appeared fine, so I had to leave him there and he is undergoing exploratory surgery as we speak. poor baby, 2 ops in 3 days

am waiting on tenterhooks at work for a phone call- I'm praying its nothing serious, i have every finger and toe crossed

thanks for your concern wuggles ;)

will let you know how we go

[PuggaWuggles]

Hi Pugga

I'm sorry to hear what happened with Wuggles, it must be really frustrating psyching yourself and your boy up for the op only to find out he underwent antisthetic for nothing.

I took bert in this morning to the specialist with bert they dont think its the soft palatte rather the arytenoids (whatever they are). the specialist was quite confused with what my vet had said was wrong, as he said bert's breathing appeared fine, so I had to leave him there and he is undergoing exploratory surgery as we speak. poor baby, 2 ops in 3 days

am waiting on tenterhooks at work for a phone call- I'm praying its nothing serious, i have every finger and toe crossed

thanks for your concern wuggles ;)

will let you know how we go

I have everything crossed and double crossed for poor little Bert,the little man will be sore and sorry,but i am sure he will be ok.

Sending lots of cuddles and good thoughts to you and Bert.

[~Anne~]

I am sure verything will go well.

Here is a diagram that might help you a little. The cartlidges that the Vet has referred to are below the larynx, within the area of the laryngeal saccules to my knowledge. The issue with them being deformed or weak is that they collapse inwards and this blocks the airway.

[Snout Girl]

Thanks Anne for all your helpful advice and the diagram. I like to understand what is happening to my dogs and you certainly made that a lot clearer

Pugga- thanks for all your thoughts and well wishes, I certainly wish you get the best outcome for you and wuggles- maybe a second opinion is in order?

well today after my vet app this morning, the specialist was very confused about my vet's findings as they weren't matching up with his examination. he put him straight into exploratory surgery and then rang me to tell me bert's soft pallete was a little bit long and they thought it was best to trim it to save possible complications further down the track. he also said that his larynx was not abnormal at all, and that he had two little nodules (he called them something else but i cant remember what they were called) that had to be removed. he said it wasnt as bad as he expected and he is confident bert will make a full recovery

he was going to keep him overnight but he recoved so well from the surgery we were able to pick him up tonight @ 8pm

words cannot describe how relieved and happy my OH and I are (and Sally too, tho i think she enjoyed being an only child for a day )

i now have a pug alseep on my feet with a little bandage on his arm from his IV line. and I couldnt be happier.

A shout out for all the staff at Advanced Vet Care in Kensington- our surgeon Guy was a lovely, caring, compassionate man who kept us in the loop every step

the reception staff were wonderful, cheering me up when i had a little teary after leaving bert

even the after hours staff when we went to collect him, so patient and friendly

we couldnt be happier with his care

Here's hoping this is the start of some good luck for my precious little man!

[Impatiens]

Aw, the poor little guy. He will be much better at home.

What a stressful few days you've had, bertandsally.

[PuggaWuggles]

Thanks Anne for all your helpful advice and the diagram. I like to understand what is happening to my dogs and you certainly made that a lot clearer

Pugga- thanks for all your thoughts and well wishes, I certainly wish you get the best outcome for you and wuggles- maybe a second opinion is in order?

well today after my vet app this morning, the specialist was very confused about my vet's findings as they weren't matching up with his examination. he put him straight into exploratory surgery and then rang me to tell me bert's soft pallete was a little bit long and they thought it was best to trim it to save possible complications further down the track. he also said that his larynx was not abnormal at all, and that he had two little nodules (he called them something else but i cant remember what they were called) that had to be removed. he said it wasnt as bad as he expected and he is confident bert will make a full recovery

he was going to keep him overnight but he recoved so well from the surgery we were able to pick him up tonight @ 8pm :D

words cannot describe how relieved and happy my OH and I are (and Sally too, tho i think she enjoyed being an only child for a day )

i now have a pug alseep on my feet with a little bandage on his arm from his IV line. and I couldnt be happier.

A shout out for all the staff at Advanced Vet Care in Kensington- our surgeon Guy was a lovely, caring, compassionate man who kept us in the loop every step

the reception staff were wonderful, cheering me up when i had a little teary after leaving bert

even the after hours staff when we went to collect him, so patient and friendly

we couldnt be happier with his care

Here's hoping this is the start of some good luck for my precious little man!

Hi BertandSally,Thats wonderful news,you must be so relieved.Its hard to keep a good Pug down,what a champion.

I must ask my vet to check Wugs Larynx etc when we take him back for desexing and soft pallet op.

It really gets you down when you have such bad luck,as i know exactly how you feel,we have had no good luck as yet with Wugs,but that all dissapears when your little man is sitting or sleeping near you,or on your shoulders,snoring his head off,waking up every 30 mins to give you a lick on the nose,just to make sure you are still there with him.

[~Anne~]

well today after my vet app this morning, the specialist was very confused about my vet's findings as they weren't matching up with his examination. he put him straight into exploratory surgery and then rang me to tell me bert's soft pallete was a little bit long and they thought it was best to trim it to save possible complications further down the track. he also said that his larynx was not abnormal at all, and that he had two little nodules (he called them something else but i cant remember what they were called) that had to be removed. he said it wasnt as bad as he expected and he is confident bert will make a full recovery

I would think he was referring to laryngeal saccules that were everted and causing partial obstruction. The saccules are noted in the diagram too.

Good to hear he is doing well. He will need some soft mushy food for the next few days, and he may gag and cough a bit for a week or so, but nothing keeps a Pug dwon for long.

Edited January 27, 2010 by ~Anne~