Trialling Males Or Females?.

[Rivsky]

I have a 4 year old male desexed at around 6 months and a 10 month old entire (for the moment at least) male who's not trialling yet and haven't had any training experience with females to compare them to but I think I'm always going to have a preference for the males - boy brains and all

[PAX]

I prefer bitches, I cant's say why,

I just do.

I think boys are slower to learn but more devoted to you. Someone once told me girl dogs love you but boy dogs are in love with you. In saying that, my girls are very loyal to me.

I think bitches take the work much more seriously, I have no proof of this it is just my opinion. I always prefered Mares to geldings too.

I haven't found any difference with my girls training through seasons, although they rarely come into season, once a year at most.

[Longcoat]

Has anybody found with the entire girls that they are either coming into season, in season, going out of season or having a phantom pregnancy all of which affects their drive/effort/performance?

I kept a diary with Blaize and she would work well throughout her season apart from days 9-13 - then her intensity dropped off.

I have now decided that tollers don't mature before 4 years of age - so it was really hard to know with Lexi and Beans how much of it was hormonal and how much was immaturity when they had an off day

That was always one of the old "trainer tales" when I first began in the 70's, also we never desexed which was thought to lower drive an effect muscle tone which led to the situation if you wanted a seriously good dog, it had to be an entire boy and you ran with what the people who were good trainers back then advised.

The most impressive girls that I have seen of late with the best focus which only amounts to 4 or 5 to compare with were desexed???.

[TerraNik]

I have one dog (desexed) and one bitch (entire). Being different breeds and personalities it's hard to identify whether it's gender-related or not, but my next trialling dog will be a bitch. Don't know why! Plus, I don't really want an entire dog in the house with my entire bitch here! Too much hassle.

[FHRP]

I have three entire males that I trial/trialed. I have trained and trialed sparingly 1 entire bitch. I prefer to train boys, they just suit me better. I find them to be more honest, the girls aren't called bitches for no reason

In the sports I trial in, the top local dogs really are a mix of both males and females. In agility nearly all are desexed, in retrieving nearly all are entire.

Has anybody found with the entire girls that they are either coming into season, in season, going out of season or having a phantom pregnancy all of which affects their drive/effort/performance?

Absolutely. I had a bitch that came into season every 4 months :p and had major phantom pregnancies. There was no use trying to trial her when she was in the later stages of a phantom as she just did not work. So, I probably lost 2 out of every 4 months :p

Having said all that I am considering a bitch for my next agility dog as in my breed/s they are more physically suited. I don't intend to desex for a few years either.. am I mad!!!

[OSoSwift]

My Dobe(entire/desexed) was not worth training or trialling for up to 12 weeks after a season as she always had phantoms. Once she was desexed it was great, never got bitchy or fluffy headed.

Rommi (entire) is hopeless to train in season, she just forgets what she is doing and wanders off! Withinh a week or so she is fine though. She has had one season and hasn't had a phantom. I think she will be coming inot season shortly and she is a bit blonder at the moment.

Lewis(entire) is great, always up and motivated. I haven't tried training him when Rommi is in season yet, so will be interesting to see what happens there. He is a big Lala all the time so I am sure it will not be much different!

[whitka]

I have trained and trailed Toby my desexed male ( done at 6months ) and while he is a sooky boy he is very stubborn and if he deosnt want to do something good luck trying to convince him otherwise. When he was in the mood he could do good job but he would tire quickly.

CJ my desexed girl ( done at 6 months ) is full of engery and just wants to please and has been a breeze to train. She has been more easy to work with then my boy, she also loves her cuddles.

Dont know why but I have always preferred the boys.

Edited January 25, 2010 by whitka

[JulesP]

I prefer bitches, I cant's say why,

I just do.

I think boys are slower to learn but more devoted to you. Someone once told me girl dogs love you but boy dogs are in love with you. In saying that, my girls are very loyal to me.

I think bitches take the work much more seriously, I have no proof of this it is just my opinion. I always prefered Mares to geldings too.

I haven't found any difference with my girls training through seasons, although they rarely come into season, once a year at most.

That is interesting both my boys have loved everyone but my girls have been devoted (to the point of obsession) with me.

[Tali]

Interesting thread - I did obedience years ago with a desexed Keeshond boy, and he was the most devoted and clever dog - we didn't get far with the obedience but that was me not him. My girl (desexed) Jess is very smart, but maybe not as focussed on me as he was... not sure if it's a dog/bitch thing, or a breed thing, or just different dogs. I now have Stig, thinking the owner-focus MAY be a male female difference ... but will let you know in about 12 months!

[TerraNik]

Tali, I think it must be a male desexed Keeshond thing... Sounds just like Jedi. I don't know why there aren't more Kees in the ring! They are so much fun to work with!

[Tiggy]

My next pup will be a working Kelpie girl (although I also have a boys name picked out just in case )

Nice choice I love the working Kelpies .

[Tiggy]

I haven't hit the trial ring yet but my Stafford dog is great to train the bitch is a scatter brain .

[Sayreovi]

Male Toller desexed @ 2.5yrs, learns at lightening pace but retention is another matter. Or should I say....learns it the right way then likes to do it different *just because* I would have sworn this was BS if someone had said their dog does it before I got Geordie! Spends a bit of his time looking for the girls, or smells of girls, or "look at that birdie over there!!" ad infinitum.

It is funny though, some of the different ways they try to do things

I remember training Nova for flyball, after him doing a run every different possible way after he knew what the right way was, I reckon he had enough fun and started doing it correctly! Silly.....well smart for him, he brought the ball back nearly every time as he would get a reward for it because he was still 'learning' and you could guarantee if he wasn't rewarded he wouldn't do a run properly next time so you had to break it down and start again.

Until he decided enough was enough and started doing it correctly, well nothing got done!

It was and still is a learning curve for both of us. Just glad I got him desexed at 3 years rather then leaving it and still be struggling through!

Darcy is my entire male who is 5 and is a dream dog too train with his willingness and throw himself at it attitude, a real ditz at times, actually most of the time but he is a handsome ditz!

[WildatHeart]

Can the OP possibly at a poll at the start of the thread please Would be interesting to see the results

[Ptolomy]

Male Toller desexed @ 2.5yrs, learns at lightening pace but retention is another matter.;) Or should I say....learns it the right way then likes to do it different *just because* I would have sworn this was BS if someone had said their dog does it before I got Geordie! Spends a bit of his time looking for the girls, or smells of girls, or "look at that birdie over there!!" ad infinitum.

It is funny though, some of the different ways they try to do things

I remember training Nova for flyball, after him doing a run every different possible way after he knew what the right way was, I reckon he had enough fun and started doing it correctly! Silly.....well smart for him, he brought the ball back nearly every time as he would get a reward for it because he was still 'learning' and you could guarantee if he wasn't rewarded he wouldn't do a run properly next time so you had to break it down and start again.

Until he decided enough was enough and started doing it correctly, well nothing got done!

It was and still is a learning curve for both of us. Just glad I got him desexed at 3 years rather then leaving it and still be struggling through!

Darcy is my entire male who is 5 and is a dream dog too train with his willingness and throw himself at it attitude, a real ditz at times, actually most of the time but he is a handsome ditz!

I have to smile - having met both your kids - I would pick Nova over Darcy to train any day ;)

[Sayreovi]

I have to smile - having met both your kids - I would pick Nova over Darcy to train any day

I think you mentioned something along those lines when I picked them up or thereafter?

Not surprised though, Nova is such a ripper of a dog but because I didnt raise him well (wasn't hard enough on him) I can't handle him in a trialling situation without getting extremely nervous and then he takes off. My training issue but with someone else the element of the unknown is there and he wouldn't do such things....

Darcy I can train anywhere and trust him.

Nova is an awesome dog to train but can't trial, Darcy is a great dog to train and very easy to trial.

Edited January 26, 2010 by tollersowned

[Staff'n'Toller]

Tonight's topic is 'why actually weave when you can just run alongside 'em???'

Edited January 26, 2010 by Staff'n'Toller

[Seita]

Has anybody found with the entire girls that they are either coming into season, in season, going out of season or having a phantom pregnancy all of which affects their drive/effort/performance?

I kept a diary with Blaize and she would work well throughout her season apart from days 9-13 - then her intensity dropped off.

I have now decided that tollers don't mature before 4 years of age - so it was really hard to know with Lexi and Beans how much of it was hormonal and how much was immaturity when they had an off day

I've only trialled one entire bitch and haven't found any issues with her really. She does tend to go off just a bit the week or so before a season (I found this out at last year's state trials as she came in season a week later) and I don't tend to train much during a season so haven't really noticed any drop off in her drive. I tend to avoid trialling in the week or two before a season and also for a week or two after a season to ensure there aren't any hormones playing up! Ella is pretty keen to work at any time though, three hours before having her first litter she was still keen to do some training, and this didn't stop the whole time she had the litter! She was keen to work the whole way through! :-)

In answer to the OP's question, I have trained a desexed male, a desexed bitch and now my entire bitch. I can't compare the male to the girls as he wasn't trained in a way that worked for him so he never was a very good competition dog, looking back now though I think he would have been a sensational trial dog if I had trained him differently. And I haven't really noticed any difference between the entire or the desexed bitches, they had different temperments but both were/are willing to please, keen to learn and seemed to love working for me. My next dog will be an entire male, although I'll probably hold off on allowing him to be used at Stud until I've got the titles etc on him that I want!! LOL

[Longcoat]

Can the OP possibly at a poll at the start of the thread please Would be interesting to see the results

We can do a poll, it would be interesting. Is there any special way that a poll is conducted here on DOL....still learning my way around

[Tassie]

.....

For me, the boys I have trained all wanted to please whereas the girls can have a stick it up your jumper attitude.

...

I always say that in BCs at least, the boys tend to be more open - what you see is what you get - while with the bitches, it can be a case of "Yeah, leave a message, and I'll get back to you".

I've trialled males (desexed at about 9 months) in obedience and tracking, with a bit of agility. My agility girl was desexed at about 7 months - she doesn't believe in obedience as a discipline (not enough action ) but has done well for me in agility and tracking. My current boy is the first entire male I've had. Haven't done a lot with him yet - but he certainly falls into the "want to please" but the boy brains can get in the way - like - I knew it yesterday, but I can't remember it today - but I love you anyway .