When A Judge Does Not Examine Your Exhibit

[Jumabaar]

Just a query on something that happend to me a while back....

I went in with one of my dogs for class and the judge stood there and looked at the two exhibits before we entered the ring. He was standing infront of the first exhbitor and I was in behind them so he would have only been able to see my dogs head front on, if that. He then motioned us to proceed round the ring. We pulled up and before I had a chance to even stand my dog he awarded it to the other exhibit. He did not touch the dog, did not look at them both stacked.

I was told be a fellow exhibitor that I should have gone to the show sec? and report that my dog was not judged. I did not feel comfortable doing this because as far as I knew once the judge had made a decision that decision was final. I also had someone showing my bitch and didnt want to leave them as she can become a little distracted if I dissapear on her while she is in the ring. So I did nothing but was given an earful by the other exhibitor for not going and doing something about it but was not sure what to do and if they were giving me the right information.

I was a little dissapointed that I had gone to the effort of paying my fee (and it was a large show so more expensive than one that I normally enter), getting my dog ready only to be dismissed without him even allowing me to stack the dog!! At the end of the day I am glad I did not go because I was able to support someone else in the ring but would like to know incase it happens in the future.

So what would you have done if this happend to you.....

[jerojath]

I think in such a case I would raise issue with the judge there & then!

As you say, you've paid money for that judges opinion and his/her knowledge whilst evaluating your dog.

Judges like this ought to throw in the towel..... they obviously don't give a damn anymore!

Edit ti add - this is even more frustrating when you've travelled hundreds of kilometers and you don't even get a fair go.

Edited January 23, 2010 by jerojath

[SpikesPuppy]

That is disgusting : Should have said something loud like "Excuse me, sir, I don't believe you have judged all the dogs in this class fairly"

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

[elmaro]

The judge was in the wrong ... the steward also in the wrong as I would have thought that they would be required to tell the judge to examine the exhibit and a good steward would be keeping an eye on what was going on ... If it were me, I would have complained to the steward that you had not been judged and then let the committee know. As you said the class has awarded and can't be rejudged (even though technically it hasn't but you get what I mean), but I would still let them know so as the judge doesn't do it again to another exhibitor ...

I won runner up best in comp the other week and the judge didn't even touch my dog!! She had judged males and another judge had done the females ... I think it was a case of nerves etc and just forgetting to put the dog on the table, but others around just reminded the judge that she had to go over the dogs and we all moved on (I mean seriously, what if my dog had had a bad bite or something!! Whilst I own smooth coats and you can see nearly everything there are some things you need to check!!) ... not sure I'd be so forgiving if it happened to me at a Championship show though!!

[ShellyBeggs]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

A good judge, in most cases, shouldn't need to touch your dog.......and I think far too many do unnecessarily, and wasting time, because of this ideal exhibitors seem to have!

If they can see right off as you enter the ring that your dog has for example, poor hind angulation or light eyes or not enough forechest, why waste everyone's time if to that particular judge, the winner is obvious?

Why go through the motions when there is no need?

Doesn't everyone want to get home earlier rather than later?

Surely a judge can, in most cases be able to see angles, substance, bone etc without the need to go all over your dog???....... the exception may be in some coated breeds obviously.

sorry I am a little confused!!!

[Miss B]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

[SpikesPuppy]

The judge did not examine either dog (I don't think??), how do they know the bite is correct? Texture of the coat, temperament????? In our breed things like pelt/coat, head proprtions & stop, bite, pad thickness and spannability are extremely important and cannot be 'seen'. They MUST be felt.

[ShellyBeggs]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

I much prefer when a judge asks me to show my dogs bite.......too many times I have had experiences and have heard complaints about rough judges or apprehensive judges make dogs uncertain of this.

Testicles are a given.....although to be honest, in some cases its pretty obvious that the dog has 2 testicles of similair size.

Coat texture a brief touch if required for the breed............

Grand total the judge if required has touched your dog for less than 20 seconds........and then only if required!!!!

[SpikesPuppy]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

I much prefer when a judge asks me to show my dogs bite.......too many times I have had experiences and have heard complaints about rough judges or apprehensive judges make dogs uncertain of this.

Testicles are a given.....although to be honest, in some cases its pretty obvious that the dog has 2 testicles of similair size.

Coat texture a brief touch if required for the breed............

Grand total the judge if required has touched your dog for less than 20 seconds........and then only if required!!!!

Not in my breed... the pelt needs to be lifted off the dog's body, the texture must be felt and undercoat checked, bite needs to be examined, head needs to be measured (poor or clever grooming can alter the appearance), pads must be felt for thickness. Ribs need to be spanned (requires lifting the dog's forequarter off the table), tail should be measured.

The smooth is similar- head should be measured (markings can alter perception), tail should be measured, undercoat should be checked etc.

[ShellyBeggs]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

I much prefer when a judge asks me to show my dogs bite.......too many times I have had experiences and have heard complaints about rough judges or apprehensive judges make dogs uncertain of this.

Testicles are a given.....although to be honest, in some cases its pretty obvious that the dog has 2 testicles of similair size.

Coat texture a brief touch if required for the breed............

Grand total the judge if required has touched your dog for less than 20 seconds........and then only if required!!!!

Not in my breed... the pelt needs to be lifted off the dog's body, the texture must be felt and undercoat checked, bite needs to be examined, head needs to be measured (poor or clever grooming can alter the appearance), pads must be felt for thickness. Ribs need to be spanned (requires lifting the dog's forequarter off the table), tail should be measured.

The smooth is similar- head should be measured (markings can alter perception), tail should be measured, undercoat should be checked etc.

There will always be exceptions for some breeds..................... And you learn something about another breed every day......

I am of course, speaking in regards to "in general".......

and I have to ask ........how often is all that checked/measured in your general all breeds show???

[Missymoo]

Whoa there, was this a CLASS in GROUP or a CLASS OF BREED...had your dog been judged previously or was this the dogs first time in the ring that day? Just need to clear that up..

[Trisven13]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

I much prefer when a judge asks me to show my dogs bite.......too many times I have had experiences and have heard complaints about rough judges or apprehensive judges make dogs uncertain of this.

Testicles are a given.....although to be honest, in some cases its pretty obvious that the dog has 2 testicles of similair size.

Coat texture a brief touch if required for the breed............

Grand total the judge if required has touched your dog for less than 20 seconds........and then only if required!!!!

Not in my breed... the pelt needs to be lifted off the dog's body, the texture must be felt and undercoat checked, bite needs to be examined, head needs to be measured (poor or clever grooming can alter the appearance), pads must be felt for thickness. Ribs need to be spanned (requires lifting the dog's forequarter off the table), tail should be measured.

The smooth is similar- head should be measured (markings can alter perception), tail should be measured, undercoat should be checked etc.

There will always be exceptions for some breeds..................... And you learn something about another breed every day......

I am of course, speaking in regards to "in general".......

and I have to ask ........how often is all that checked/measured in your general all breeds show???

Not often enough in my breed and dependent on what the Judge does gives me an idea of just how well they read their standard. I'd be very peeved if a judge didn't put their hands on two Fauves before awarding.

[SpikesPuppy]

Why does so many people want or more to the point NEED the judge to touch your dog???

Bite? Testicles? Coat texture? Etc.

I much prefer when a judge asks me to show my dogs bite.......too many times I have had experiences and have heard complaints about rough judges or apprehensive judges make dogs uncertain of this.

Testicles are a given.....although to be honest, in some cases its pretty obvious that the dog has 2 testicles of similair size.

Coat texture a brief touch if required for the breed............

Grand total the judge if required has touched your dog for less than 20 seconds........and then only if required!!!!

Not in my breed... the pelt needs to be lifted off the dog's body, the texture must be felt and undercoat checked, bite needs to be examined, head needs to be measured (poor or clever grooming can alter the appearance), pads must be felt for thickness. Ribs need to be spanned (requires lifting the dog's forequarter off the table), tail should be measured.

The smooth is similar- head should be measured (markings can alter perception), tail should be measured, undercoat should be checked etc.

There will always be exceptions for some breeds..................... And you learn something about another breed every day......

I am of course, speaking in regards to "in general".......

and I have to ask ........how often is all that checked/measured in your general all breeds show???

Unfortunately, not often enough but that's beside the point. There are many factors that should, IMO be taken into consideration in every breed. ESPECIALLY coated breeds- sur ethe dog may move or stack well etc but how do you asses the true lay of should or turn of stifle if you can't see it and don't feel it???

Most breeds have proportions mentioned in their standards and size etc.

[Jumabaar]

OK so next time I will ask the steward if something like this happens again!! Which I hope it wont (will not be going under that judge again!!)

It was for class ie intermediate dog- so he had not been seen by the judge at all that day (I like it when the judge does a quick decision for class in group LOL I like to get home and wont complain about that ever!)

ShellyBeggs-

If there was a clear fault with my boy then fine- you dont need to go over them, HOWEVER he has been quite competitive with the other exhibit and so I would have expected that he should have AT LEAST looked at the PROFILE of each dog stacked- in this case the judge did not even do that, we just gated around the ring once. Furthermore bite is part of the standard, as is a double coat and it is important to feel the depth, bredth of chest, shoulders etc because they are important to the performance capability of the breed as well as many other points. Nope not every judge knows them all but the basics are almost always covered.

I dont mind if the judge asks me to show them their bite- but it should be checked. Since both boys had their tails down- nope testicles would not have been a given!

I have to say that if judges never layed their hands on dogs alot would be covered up- what about any coated breed where you HAVE to feel to make sure that what you are seeing in movement is what is there, let alone length of neck etc which can be shaped through grooming.... It is a narrow view to believe that each dog should not be touched by the judge, I think breeds where this was possible would be the exception rather than the rule!!

Edited January 23, 2010 by woofenpup

[Mags]

Make a complaint, give details so they know its just not sour grapes and advise them you will not be showing under this judge again. Judges will not keep getting judging assignments if no one enters under them and its the only way that we have of expressing our lack of confidence in their skills.

Really disappointing but at least you know where you stand with this judge - one less to enter under.

[elmaro]

You say class in breed ... so you had already won your class?? Did the judge go over your dog then? If the judge has previously gone over your dog then they are within their rights to make a decision without re-examining your dog! Hope that makes sense?

[Jumabaar]

You say class in breed ... so you had already won your class?? Did the judge go over your dog then? If the judge has previously gone over your dog then they are within their rights to make a decision without re-examining your dog! Hope that makes sense?

I will go back and fix it up- it was for intermediate dog not class of breed thanks for letting me know. He had not judged my dog at all

[elmaro]

Ah ... in that case you definately had cause to bring it to someones attention.

[lappiemum]

Wolfenpup - I would simply never enter under that judge again. In entering my dog, I expect a level of competancy in order to judge my dog. If I do not believe they handle my dog, or my breed, with any knowledge or professionalism, I take note and do not go back. if people ask me later about that judge, I would tell them of my experience. The decision to enter, ofcourse, is still completely up to them

[Bullbreedlover]

In judging breeds a judge must be seen to be having hands on.

Even Specialist German Shepherd judges, specialists that they are in their judging, check teeth and testicles.

Clubs when contracting judges, should be sending the message through that judges must physically go over their exhibits.

I dont care whether they are smooth coats or long coats, a judge must be hands on.

Dentiton, wry jaws, coat texture, examining long coated dogs, feeling muscle and shoulder angulation, examining in some dogs hardness of the pads of the feet, testicles(Yes there is a difference between real and false).

So many things are hidden by grooming.

In some cases long coated dog exhibitors have brought a bitch into the ring instead of a dog (or visa versa) and by checking this the judge can pick it up.

If this had of happened to me while I was exhibiting then I would of said somethng to the judge in the first instance. if I did not agree with their comment then I would inform the Show Committee.

You pay your entrance money for the judge to examine your dog. The judge is not there for a holiday