Cross Breeds- Breeding?

[The Spotted Devil]

I don't think the DD fad is about money at all.

It's about people wanting a puppy NOW...put it on your credit card or why not layby???

It's about people wanting THE latest, most fashionable, hip accessory...like a big plasma.

It's about people tossing the latest accessory to the kerb when it all becomes too hard or something else is more fashionable.

It's about people who will never be able to buy a pup from an ethical breeder or rescue org (pure bred or otherwise) because of their attitude....would anyone here sell 'em one?

[fifi]

I think there will always be people who want a crossbreed. I don't believe in indiscriminate breeding and I think the welfare of the dogs needs to come first. I think puppy farms should be abolished. If people want to breed Fluffy with Rover, that's fine - as long as Fluffy and Rover are well cared for, all health checks are gone and the puppies will be rehomed responsibly.

;) sorry, I strongly disagree with this last statement.

I don't think you can do some of the breed specific DNA marker heriditary tests in a cross bred (happy to be corrected here)

The pounds are FULL of fluffy X rover's. Oops litters happen ALL the time, why do it deliberatley ? corner shop, vet noticeboards ect. always have these pups available

fifi

[BJean]

I think there will always be people who want a crossbreed. I don't believe in indiscriminate breeding and I think the welfare of the dogs needs to come first. I think puppy farms should be abolished. If people want to breed Fluffy with Rover, that's fine - as long as Fluffy and Rover are well cared for, all health checks are gone and the puppies will be rehomed responsibly.

Puppy farms will never be abolished they are actually being promoted -

Legistlation is moving towards large scale production line for puppy sourincg -

frankly I dont see byb as a big evil

I see puppy farms/mills

but ironically the attack on byb results in better circumstaces for puppy mills.

Puppy mills will always be around? why - because dog owners inadvertently support legistlation that removes the right for individuals to make decisions about their dogs and what they can and cannot do with them.

Edited January 22, 2010 by lilli

[JulesP]

Definitely agree with the ease of buying from a pet shop. Also think that they just don't get why it is wrong. The usual response is that they have saved the pup and will give it a good home. They don't get that the parents might be suffering to produce their pup and that if people like them buy the damn things that the puppy farms will keep doing it. Just lack of care factor really.

[KismetKat]

I don't think the DD fad is about money at all.

It's about people wanting a puppy NOW...put it on your credit card or why not layby???

It's about people wanting THE latest, most fashionable, hip accessory...like a big plasma.

It's about people tossing the latest accessory to the kerb when it all becomes too hard or something else is more fashionable.

It's about people who will never be able to buy a pup from an ethical breeder or rescue org (pure bred or otherwise) because of their attitude....would anyone here sell 'em one?

I disagree. Why the DDs are so popular is the clever marketing. They are the 'perfect' dog, have 'hybrid vigour', have the 'best of both breeds' and what's more, they 'don't shed'.

It's dogs for dummies ;)

But that being said, many DD owners turn out to be wonderful dog owners and would have no problem getting a dog from an ethical breeder/rescue.

[poodlemum]

I think this is in violation of the forum rules......... ;)

So do I - isn't this a PUREBREED forum?

[RottnBullies]

what I do care about is having the right to own those dogs.

Hear hear ;)

[~Anne~]

I see nothing wrong with it. As some have already stated, I would think of the dogs as being inferior, but that is all. Years ago, that is exactly what people thought. It was fine to own a cross bred, but it was inferior to the purebred. I think it is time we moved back to that line of thinking.

This great divide that has been cast is a blight on the dog world. Why not have faith in the supriority of the purebred dog and not be so fearful of the mutt.

[sandgrubber]

I like dogs that are/were bred for a reason. Whether that reason be for bringing bulls down, herding stock, catching rats or simply sitting on a lap. I love that over the generations, humans who bred these dogs have cared enough about them to carefully select their breeding stock to make the next generation just a little bit better than the last. I love that each breed has it's own unique traits that are bred for and preserved....even if the breed closely resembles another breed.

I love that the heritage of every single pedigree purebred is charted, registered and preserved for the future of that particular breed.

How is crossing the breeds going to be better than what's already gone before them?

I don't see how people can bemoan the pending extinction of some breeds and condemn the process that may create new breeds. The modern environment does offer niches for new breeds. As an aging Labrador breeder, I'd love to find a breed that was Lab-like in temperament and intelligence, but smaller, with a thinner coat. The ADF preferred Lab X kelpies in Vietnam (plenty to be found in rescue . .. no deliberate breeding involved) . . . Lab for temperament, kelpie for lightness, quickness and endurance in hot weather, both breeds highly trainable. There would be strong demand for a breed that was not allergenic but didn't have the grooming requirements of the poodle or lagotto. Perhaps one could be developed using hairless bloodlines. There's a wonderful spaniel X border collie who comes to my kennels. She has all the quickness and agility of a BC but lacks the herding drive and intensity that often makes herding dogs difficult in the 'burbs. The rat terrier is essentially a mixed breed dog that has settled down into a predictable type over 100 yrs or so (terrier mixed with a bit of beagle and some whippet, plus who knows what else) . . . for that matter, the Lab is essentially a mixed breed dog with leading input from the St John's dog of NE Canada, plus various gun dog breeds . . . with 200 yrs or so for lines to stabilise. I'm not saying that selective breeding doesn't work . . . just that cross breeding has had some successes.

I agree with others, continual F1 crosses are not a good thing, and the creation of a new breed should be done with a distinct niche for the breed. It should also be recognised that many breeds' original niches are gone or disappearing fast . . . cart dogs, dogs that go to ground for badgers and fiercer pray, temple dogs . . . and not very many people want high maintenance dogs. It wouldn't work to selectively breed for, say, Labrador, that was smaller, lighter, and lacked a dual coat. You'd be slammed for working away from the breed standard. But there is a ready market for such a dog.

[Lady Flying Furball]

We have some people over the road from us with 2 Golden Retriever Standard Poodle crossbreed dogs who seriously think these dogs are a special breeding :D As Nekhbet has mentioned the public having oodles rammed down their throats is the exact case with the people here that we know. These people actually didn't know that a GR/SP (Groodle) they call them are not a recognised breed and they paid$2000 + GST for each of these dogs and got "PAPERS" with them

Without sounding offensive to anyone, these dogs are are simply a mongrel breeding no better than any other crossbred dog and are not worth $2000 + GST............and I would love to view the "PAPERS" :D

What really rattles my chain is they look down at my Golden Retriever papered pedigree as substandard to their designer breeding

It's true that people buy the specialised oodle crosses in the spirit of buying a "breed". That is a problem/misinformation. In essence that really seems to be the issue, expressed thru the very inflated prices that people are willing to pay.

Plus, the general belief that crossbreeds are more robust than "unhealthy, inbred" purebreeds which a lot of the oodle breeders propogate.

[Mystiqview]

Pedigree dogs now, were developed from mixing breeds. It may have been selective breeding, but in the development of some breeds. Selective crosses were used. Look at the dobermann. (Before BC's I had dobes). It was crossed between the Pinscher, rottweiler, old german shepherd dog (nothing like what we now know as GSD's).

You go back far enough into breed history and breed books, I am sure there will be "origin of the breed".

A friend of mine, has one pedigree dog. He is currently about 6 years old and is fighting fit. The dog lives there as a "stash" from the breeder.

The guy's wife, wanted a red BC so down the pet store they went (go figure - another story too??) and bought one red/white BC. Cost them about $800, three and a half years ago.

10 days ago, they had to put down this red/white BC with Cancer. She had multiple lymphomas and one in her throat that prevent them from putting an oxygen tube down her throat.

The pet shop BC, of course is only "purebred" at best. Not health tested or anything else.

Pedigree pups for my breed range from $600 - $1000 depending on their breeding and the breeder and in some cases more for those cashing in on the colour for money scheme (Anything up to $2000 for a merle or other 'fad' colour by some colour breeders). Something I don't agree with.

Most reputable breeders I know do not charge more for coloured dogs. I sell coloured puppies for the same as black/white ones. They all cost the same to raise and register and I do not believe in charging more for something that happens naturally within the breed (Colour that is).

But a good quality BC from health tested parents range roughly in that price bracket. I have seen BC's in pet stores for the same price if not more in some cases. No health testing done on the parents or anything else.

Now, who claims pedigree dogs are more expensive??

I personally do not lay blame totally on the TV gardener. There were other programs including the morning shows advertising and promoting these cross breds. I know he had issues with the CCC of his state etc.

The FAD was already snowballing. With certain websites containing free puppy ads, they were already dominating a large chunk of puppy advertisements. He may have exacerbated the issue, but I do not think he is the root cause of the DD fad we have now.

[SpikesPuppy]

As for irresponsible breeding- just because someone is CC registered and breeding papered dogs (even if they are show champions) is NO GUARANTEE that the breeder is ethical or breeding healthy pups. All these people are doing is ruining the pedigrees that many others have worked their asses off to stabilise. What hurts me the most is seeing a poorly bred Border Terrier or any other pedigree that has been poorly bred or bred only for the money etc. Obviously I don't like to see any dog that is suffering (especially through poor breeding), but to see, for example, many of the BTs in the UK (where they have recently become the must have dog) who do NOT conform to standard and worse suffer serious health problems that the responsible breeders are trying to eradicate or at the very least, reduce. To see pedigree dogs so poorly bred puts a slur on ALL pedigree dog breeders. Because people who don't know better focus on the negative aspects rather than the positives, as well as the media etc (Look at the PDE doco- that showed a very minute handful of dogs which had problems... but look at the impact it has had!!).

GayleK- with regard to sporting dogs- many successful agility/obedience/flyball dogs came from shelters and pounds- in some cases as adult dogs where they were chosen because of the drive they showed as adults.

[Steve]

So in reality what you are all asking for is Breed specific legislation?

[sandgrubber]

So in reality what you are all asking for is Breed specific legislation?

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying.

[Crisovar]

Ban the breeding of crossbreeds = BSL easy.

[SpikesPuppy]

So in reality what you are all asking for is Breed specific legislation?

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying.

I think what Steve may be saying is that you are all asking for regulation on what should and should not be bred- just because YOU don't like these crossbreeds/mixes you don't think they should exist. Is that not a form of BSL???

(Steve, correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it :D )

[Crisovar]

So in reality what you are all asking for is Breed specific legislation?

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying.

I think what Steve may be saying is that you are all asking for regulation on what should and should not be bred- just because YOU don't like these crossbreeds/mixes you don't think they should exist. Is that not a form of BSL???

(Steve, correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it :D )

I understood it that way too.

[sandgrubber]

So in reality what you are all asking for is Breed specific legislation?

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying.

I think what Steve may be saying is that you are all asking for regulation on what should and should not be bred- just because YOU don't like these crossbreeds/mixes you don't think they should exist. Is that not a form of BSL???

(Steve, correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it :D )

I understood it that way too.

Guess I was confused cause I -- and some others posting -- don't seek such legislation . . . rather for an acceptance that old breeds might disappear and new breeds may appear . . . some of them through crossbreeding. Dog roles change. Dog breeds need to change also. The 'breed standard' doesn't easily allow for change. So of course people move outside the framework of pedigree breeding.

Edited January 23, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Allerzeit]

Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders

What??

Care to show me the "old" standard that says that?

[Dogsfevr]

Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding...

That is the funniest thing i have read all morning :D Thanks for that