spanky Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I only asked the question because of comments from Steve and Lilli about a person's right to cross breed. Its not the impression i have ever received from this forum so i was surprised to see the comments and wanted to see what other DOLers thought. If Troy thinks its inappropriate, i'm happy for him to delete. I guess considering the group I belong to that me having that view might surprise a lot of people but for me its a rights issue. I dont like it,I think its a dumb thing to do but its their right to breed cross breds and its a persons right to want one and own one and not have to treat it differently because its not a purebred. I agree completely with the bolded bit. My OH thinks and calls me a dog snob because I prefer purebred dogs. The reality is I love all dogs and don't think any are less deserving than another... what I dislike is people telling me a cross is better because of hybrid vigour and the way many dogs used for cross breeding are kept in unsavory conditions. As for the public preferring oodles is it maybe more to do once again with the promotion of the available purebreeds and the public perception of the health of crosses being better and all that has been discussed on DOL previously. A more informed public may just swing back in favour of purebreeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) I would like to see 2 of the oodles added to the list of ANKC breeds. A bigger one and a smaller one. The public want these dogs. I would like to see them developed into a breed and bred properly. there are plenty of small fluffy dogs and big fluffy dogs, the public just have oodles rammed down their throats so they think they're the ONLY option out there. And considering the pricetag you cannot say it's because they're cheap or reliable at all They wont be a breed, most that I've met are just odd. Random creations with no real aim, what is there to create? Crossbreeding has a limited place in invention, creation and saving some lines of dogs. Just doing it for the sake of it ... why? Then why breed at all? We have some people over the road from us with 2 Golden Retriever Standard Poodle crossbreed dogs who seriously think these dogs are a special breeding As Nekhbet has mentioned the public having oodles rammed down their throats is the exact case with the people here that we know. These people actually didn't know that a GR/SP (Groodle) they call them are not a recognised breed and they paid$2000 + GST for each of these dogs and got "PAPERS" with them Without sounding offensive to anyone, these dogs are are simply a mongrel breeding no better than any other crossbred dog and are not worth $2000 + GST............and I would love to view the "PAPERS" What really rattles my chain is they look down at my Golden Retriever papered pedigree as substandard to their designer breeding Edited January 22, 2010 by Longcoat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I think this is in violation of the forum rules......... no - it isn't promoting cross breeds at all. Cosmolo -= if they were doing these things and making intelligent crosses (ie working towards a standard, compatible breeds, bred for a real reason etc) then I wouldn't have a problem with them. That is how most breeds today have been developed. I agree with this. Why isn't being a pet a good enough purpose? I think it is a perfect purpose and is the purpose behind a number of animals in existence today. If there was a way to force people breeding puppies of any heritage (designer, backyard mutt or pedigree) to have a degree of responsibility for each of those puppies then I would be very happy. Sadly there isn't a way to enforce that. I agree with you trisven. What is MOST important to me is responsible breeding and actually breeding for a purpose whatever that may be. If we were breeding pets that were suitable for family homes, and actually limiting those who breed 'without purpose' and sell to anybody we may actually see a reduction in stray and surrendered animals. The majority of dogs that end up in pounds etc are X breeds. Why do we want more? We cannot adequately care for the ones already. IMO this is a separate issue. The pounds are full of pure breeds too. It's not because of what the people own, but rather who the market is. those who won't care for their pets won't spend $$$$ to buy a purebreed. Which means that is why there is a higher number of x breeds. We need to address the issue of improper breeding, not paying enough attention to temperaments and not screening the families properly. If we can educate those to actually RESEARCH their breeds first before purchasing their pet, and comitting to the ownership, then again, a lot of these issues will be improved. Add to that responsible breeding where the attention is paid to temperament and health, as well as the right homes, then I think again, we are addressing the issue. to me - the cross breed is the minority of the issue. The main thing we should be looking at is how to control and manage better breeding practices along with public education about pet care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildatHeart Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't see a problem with it if it is done ethicaly,with compatible strains,for a specific purpose,and with the welfare of resulting pups of prime concern. If done intentionaly,it should be with thoughful consideration. Most breeds were originaly developed for their own specific purposes from cross breeds,some quite recently,and this should be remembered. Many pure breeds have been bred away from their original purposes enough that "Working traits" can not be relied on. As an example the Inuit people likely have little faith in say,a sledding breed bred in Australia over their unregistered native stock,bred back to wolves every few generations.They may well find a cross between a Siberian husky and a Malamute useful,and who are we to try to deny that right because their dogs are not registered? Its a closed and narrow mind who thinks the pure,registered breeds in exsistence today can be all we are ever going to need for the gene pool potential of dogs in general,but I agree this is not the place to debate this. Anyone responding in favour,no matter how sound their arguments,is setting themselves up for a hard time here. I admire and respect the registered breeders here who work hard and knowledably to improve their breeds,yet other view points are not wecome and sadly,are often seen as attacks. I cannot remember for the life of me but there is that qld 'trainer' that breed a malinois x something, might have been husky??? To make something that was smart and have lots of stamina... pfft, yeah, that's guaranteed (someone will remember for me what it was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nannas Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available.. Some people just want a dog...for a pet,,,,,not for show or to better others.. Saying that,,,I will NOT crossbreed any of my dogs... 1 is already cross and is quite mad...crossing her may lead to worse mad pups. Although I do not agree with all the breeder statements,,,I do agree that cross breeding needs lots of thought and background.. Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding... Cross breeding goes on alot in all breeds.... Find a fault in a standard and breeders will cross breed to fix it,,,,,to make pups better or fix the problem. Crossing in your own backyard is way different....they are NOT to fix a problem..they are to sell pups. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... Two minds here.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casima Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Why isn't being a pet a good enough purpose? Hi Cosmolo, I assume that question is in response to my post. Lets see if I can find some words, to me there are a few reasons. I guess I am more than alittle biased towards working dogs and their creation based on working ability, form follows function etc. I'm no expert, but outside of the Toy group, almost every dog breed owes its existance to some form of work which shaped it into what it is today. To me it just feels wrong to take breeds with so much history, mix them together and come up with something else purely based on what someone desires to have as a pet. I also believe there are already many breeds suitable for all styles and tastes in pet dogs, unless someone found an area not already filled by a breed we already have, eg the Silken Windhounds I mentioned I feel did find a gap. Then maybe creating a new breed is appropiate if done responsibly. Otherwise, why create another breed that is potentially very similar to what we have, but without the long history? As for F1 crosses for the pet market, from what I've seen are quite unpredictable in looks, temperament, activity and care required, even if in theory they were bred responsibly from quality parents the risk of someone getting too much dog for them is too high and often ends badly for the poor dog. I've met very few x breeds that I felt were good dogs in their own right, and the few that I feel are seem to come from 2 breeds that are similar to each other in size, structure and temperament. I have a F1 cross here, my Raffy, and even tho he is from two relatively similar breeds (Belgian x BC) he has a whole host of issues that I feel make him less than a pure bred of either breed. I met a jack russell x pug once, it had the brain and drive of the JR in the body of a pug, the poor thing was so frustrated all the time that its legs couldn't do what its mind wanted that it turned into a very snarky little thing at a very young age, poor dog. I don't know, maybe I just like pure bred dogs too much to be open to the idea of mixing them all up. I can easily list a dozen or more pure breeds that I would love to own so don't understand how there could be anyone out there that cannot find at least one that they really love without having to resort to makeing another. I guess if people truly feel that there isn't a purebred out there that really suits them, then go for it, create one to fill that gap. Edited January 22, 2010 by Casima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't agree with breeding all these little designer dogs as many of them end up with awful health problems but if done carefully and ethically I don't really know if I would agree or disagree. I grew up with a dobe x pointer she was almost 16 when she died and rarely had any problems over her lifetime. Since I became involved with purebreds my vet bills are never ending and I have been able to also see the bad side to some registered breeders. I am in no way knocking the pedigree dogs or their breeders but there is good and bad in both circumstances, if the dog is purely a pet and not being used for it's original purpose does it matter if it is a x breed as long as it's loved and well cared for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available..Some people just want a dog...for a pet,,,,,not for show or to better others.. Saying that,,,I will NOT crossbreed any of my dogs... 1 is already cross and is quite mad...crossing her may lead to worse mad pups. Although I do not agree with all the breeder statements,,,I do agree that cross breeding needs lots of thought and background.. Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding... Cross breeding goes on alot in all breeds.... Find a fault in a standard and breeders will cross breed to fix it,,,,,to make pups better or fix the problem. Crossing in your own backyard is way different....they are NOT to fix a problem..they are to sell pups. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... Two minds here.....lol A purebred dog costs less than $2.00 per week over a 10 year lifespan on the purchase price. It can be difficult to find $1000 to buy the dog initially, but less than $2.00 per week I think is cheap for quality potential when looking at costs this way??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcoat Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available..Some people just want a dog...for a pet,,,,,not for show or to better others.. Saying that,,,I will NOT crossbreed any of my dogs... 1 is already cross and is quite mad...crossing her may lead to worse mad pups. Although I do not agree with all the breeder statements,,,I do agree that cross breeding needs lots of thought and background.. Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding... Cross breeding goes on alot in all breeds.... Find a fault in a standard and breeders will cross breed to fix it,,,,,to make pups better or fix the problem. Crossing in your own backyard is way different....they are NOT to fix a problem..they are to sell pups. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... Two minds here.....lol A purebred dog costs less than $2.00 per week over a 10 year lifespan on the purchase price. It can be difficult to find $1000 to buy the dog initially, but less than $2.00 per week I think is cheap for quality potential when looking at costs this way??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available.. Rubbish. I bought my gorgeous girl from an interstate breeder, she has a lovely pedigree, parents are both titled (dad is a Gr Ch), lots of relatives with performance and conformation titles both here and overseas. Including her plane ticket, she cost me LESS than $650. That is around half the price of some of the labrador x poodles I've seen advertised. She was not "going cheap" because the breeder couldn't get rid of the pups....I chose her from a photo the day after she was born (I was particular about colour, markings and gender) and the entire litter of 9 puppies was sold by the time they were a month old. The breeder I bought her from has been fabulous, each and every time I have a query, she responds within hours, sometimes minutes. She adores the photos I send her of my lovely girl and it's so nice to have someone appreciate her like I do. A few weeks abo I looked at some of the DOL puppy listings. Some of the breeders have the prices in their ads. Maltese puppies for $1000. Tibetan Terrier pups for $600-$800. Poodles (little ones, can't recall if they were toy or miniature) $950. These breeds have similar "looks" to the Maltipoopenschnoodledoodles being pumped out by puppy farmers and sold at astronomical prices through pet stores and over the internet. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... But they pay it for cross bred mutts. So why wouldn't they pay it for purebred puppies with a pedigree from a registered and ethical breeder? Edited January 22, 2010 by GayleK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I see no point in intentionally breeding crosses. There are plenty of pedigree breeds out there, surely there is a breed suited to almost everyone. If you feel there is not go save a life from the pound or through rescue. I love mutts (especially big boofers) but dont think we need to be breeding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 We might all think that there are current purebreds that will do but unfortunately the people buying them do not agree. But how many people don't know any better and buy on impulse, or buy because they saw a cute picture and want something that looks like that, or because they have no idea about purebreds and all the breeds available? I can think of so many instances where people have bought crossbreeds because they bought into the hype, or because they had no idea on the benefits of buying a purebred. Deciding that two mongrels that do not breed predictably should be recognised by the ANKC purely because the public are buying them is silly. If they want recognition, they can follow the ANKC guidelines and become recognised for the right reasons. I don't see the point in breeding - purebreds or crossbreeds - just for the sake of it. Why isn't being a pet a good enough purpose? Puppy farmers and BYBers breed for the pet market, does that make it ok? Because they are breeding for the pet market and for no other reason (bar making money of course)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I would not agree because of the mixes you do not know how the tempermermets will turn out down the track. It's interesting you say that, so many cross breed rescues are brilliant temperments (i'm sure there are horrible ones out there too just like the Pedigrees), makes me wonder if Jo Blow breeds his bitch because he thinks she's such a nice dog....so effectively he's breeding for temperament rather than conformation. Not saying all BYB's obviously but just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... Why don't a family wanting a pet deserve a quality, healthy pup bred by a reputable breeder? I paid less than $1000 for both my pedigree dogs, I would easily pay double that if it meant I was getting the best pet I could to suit my family. Plenty of families happily dosh $1000 or way more for a cute crossbred from a pet store, puppy farmer or BYBer. Despite meeting many lovely crossbreeds and owning one myself I won't take the gamble that comes with buying a crossbred pup. I know what I want in a dog, what suits me, and buying a purebred from a reputable breeder gives me the best chance there is at getting a dog to suit my and my family's lifestyle. Edited January 22, 2010 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildatHeart Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Came across this, its a year old. I'm not saying i agree with it but it brings out some points... why must you all condemn every person who breeds unregistered puppies? I am proud of the puppies I sell.I am proud to have people come to my home and meet my dogs. My dogs are loved and well cared for. They are fed only the best of dry food, raw meat, cooked meat and pasta and rice and veggies. I offer life long advice and help for the new owners of my puppies. All my dogs are vetted and immunised and wormed, bathed, clipped, trimmed, socialized and loved. My dogs live inside the house and out on the porch, which is fenced in to keep them safe.They go on outings with us too, in the car to parks and markets.The puppies are born in my lounge room and live inside until they are sold, they have an hours play on the porch during nice days while i watch them, so they get some sun and fun. My puppie do not leave my home until they are immunised and wormed at 2,4,6, and 8 weeks with drontel, my adult dogs are wormed every 3 months with drontel and i have a spread sheet to keep a record of vet visits, worming, avoiding unwanted pregnancies etc. My dogs do not have health problems, and the poodles are PRA tested. Please consider the fact that I may not be a brain sergon, nor am I filthy rich, and no, most of my dogs are not registered, but I AM a person who does stand up straight and proud of how well my dogs live. I also have kept my retired female, which i had desexed at 7 years of age. The fact is, there is a market for first and second cross breed dogs, not everyone wants a purebred over priced dog, and not everyone wants an unknown mongrel from the rspca. you do-gooders say get a shelter dog, yet you say not to buy a pup unless you can view the parents and owners life style to see tempriment...none of which you can do with the pound or rspca pups and dogs....you say fix all dogs except purebreds..they are the words of a registered breeder who feels ripped off by x breeders....if thats not all about money then i am a munkeys uncle. If we fixed all dogs except purebreds, eventually there would be nothing but inbred purebreds....go the greedy purebred owners.Giving the rest of us no choices in our taste of pet. I accept that there are way too many people breeding anything to anything and not vetting or feeding quality food, but...BUT not all of us are idiots thank you very much. do research and don't throw everyone in the same box, or you just make yourselves look ignorant and no one will look twice at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Leopuppy The pounds are full of pure breeds too. Where? Nannas Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available..Some people just want a dog...for a pet,,,,,not for show or to better others.. Purebreds often cost less than designer mongrels and pet shop pups. They do cost more than genuine mongels, and so they should. Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding... So, you are saying there are 104cm high rottweilers? Where is this, please, I have never seen any that big. Cross breeding goes on alot in all breeds....Find a fault in a standard and breeders will cross breed to fix it,,,,,to make pups better or fix the problem. Really, and are they registering the pups with their CC? What faults are they crossing to fix? And where are these people? What breeds are we talking about here? Longcoat BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... But, that's the going rate - or something under it for some breeds. And as I mentioned before, designer mongrels and pet shop pups cost more. Someone quoted $2000 earlier for GR mongrels. That's a lot. That's one of the reasons I don't oppose the true mongrel - gives people a cheaper dog. And when animal welfare gets going on us, it will cost twice that, because there will bo so many tests and regulations, and we'll have to take the bitch to the vet every 10 minutes, and that will mount up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nannas Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available..Some people just want a dog...for a pet,,,,,not for show or to better others.. Saying that,,,I will NOT crossbreed any of my dogs... 1 is already cross and is quite mad...crossing her may lead to worse mad pups. Although I do not agree with all the breeder statements,,,I do agree that cross breeding needs lots of thought and background.. Geesh,,,Rotty's should by old standards stand 52cm's at the shoulders,,,,,but we have ""Purebreeds"" in here standing almost twice that...They got that through cross breeding... Cross breeding goes on alot in all breeds.... Find a fault in a standard and breeders will cross breed to fix it,,,,,to make pups better or fix the problem. Crossing in your own backyard is way different....they are NOT to fix a problem..they are to sell pups. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... Two minds here.....lol A purebred dog costs less than $2.00 per week over a 10 year lifespan on the purchase price. It can be difficult to find $1000 to buy the dog initially, but less than $2.00 per week I think is cheap for quality potential when looking at costs this way??? OK,,,one at a time here,, I have had cross breds that in 15years have had NOTHING wrong with them ever....and were given to me with 2 bags of food. You cannot get a purebred at that price.... Sorry Edited January 22, 2010 by Nannas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I have had cross breds that in 15years have had NOTHING wrong with them ever....and wree given to me with 2 bags of food.You cannot get a purebred at that price.... Sorry Can you please clarify if they were accidental back yard bred dogs, or purposely bred designer mixes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaz Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I could be wrong here, I am sure someone will let me know that I am. I vaguely recall that the Labradoodle was bread by the Guide Dogs to investigate the possibility of breeding a low allergenic, but still capable seeing eye dog. If that was a possibility, would that be a good reason to investigate cross breeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nannas Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Purebreeds cost a fortune....esp from areas where no breeder is available.. Rubbish. I bought my gorgeous girl from an interstate breeder, she has a lovely pedigree, parents are both titled (dad is a Gr Ch), lots of relatives with performance and conformation titles both here and overseas. Including her plane ticket, she cost me LESS than $650. That is around half the price of some of the labrador x poodles I've seen advertised. She was not "going cheap" because the breeder couldn't get rid of the pups....I chose her from a photo the day after she was born (I was particular about colour, markings and gender) and the entire litter of 9 puppies was sold by the time they were a month old. The breeder I bought her from has been fabulous, each and every time I have a query, she responds within hours, sometimes minutes. She adores the photos I send her of my lovely girl and it's so nice to have someone appreciate her like I do. A few weeks abo I looked at some of the DOL puppy listings. Some of the breeders have the prices in their ads. Maltese puppies for $1000. Tibetan Terrier pups for $600-$800. Poodles (little ones, can't recall if they were toy or miniature) $950. These breeds have similar "looks" to the Maltipoopenschnoodledoodles being pumped out by puppy farmers and sold at astronomical prices through pet stores and over the internet. BUT people wanting a family pet should NOT have to pay almosy $1,000 for it... But they pay it for cross bred mutts. So why wouldn't they pay it for purebred puppies with a pedigree from a registered and ethical breeder? YOu kidding,,I got my pure pit free,,,,,as BSL came in,,, I got my AmStaff free,,,as they thought she had parvo... I also got a "pure" rotty,,,,,that stood more than the max for standards.....seen alot on here too, IF you wanna talk PUREBREEDS......then stop crossing... Who here has a pure registered rotty?? Standing more than 52cm at the shoulders??? That is NOT pure it got that way through crossing.....be real breeders.... You cross breed to make things better,,,you just think you do it better than everyone else........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now