Very Upset

[ellz]

In all honesty, probably not much that will benefit anybody. Although if too much noise is made, it will probably make the airlines tighten things even further so that puppies of any breed cannot be flown within Australia under a specific age limit.

This isn't the first time a dog has died as a result of an air flight and it won't be the last.

I know of situations where some of the top dogs in certain breeds have perished DIRECTLY at the hands of airlines, and not just possibly as a result of the treatment of airlines and nothing happened.

Editing to add: Whilst the situation is tragic and I feel for the puppy and the parties involved, the responsibility isn't ENTIRELY with the airline. Many lessons can be learned from this for anybody who is considering freighting a puppy within Australia during summer or any other extreme weather period.

Edited January 31, 2010 by ellz

[oakway]

Oh that is soooo sad.

I have know someone who works with the luggage handlers and he often sees dogs left on the tarmatt for long periods of time in crates in the direct sun or raining in the winter. He often tries and cover them where possible. He has also seen a few dead ones over the years. Pups and older dogs after their flights. They are often shoved in amongst the luggage and they do not get heating or cooling like the passengers.

On another note I have successfully sent and recieved a number of healthy pups over the years.

Sorry not true. Dogs do not go in the luggage hold. Dogs have a special area to which they are allocated. They are provided the same comforts as the passengers.

[Sandra777]

Sorry not true. Dogs do not go in the luggage hold. Dogs have a special area to which they are allocated. They are provided the same comforts as the passengers.

Not on the larger planes no, on the small (10-12 seaters) they do sometimes end up surrounded by luggage because the luggage hold is actually a "cupboard" in the plane rather than separate from the cabin in some planes. I was travelling on a 12 seater with a dog as excess baggage when one of the ground staff tried to stuff her into the luggage compartment with the crate vertical. He got called things that made him blush.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Sandra777

[oakway]

Sorry not true. Dogs do not go in the luggage hold. Dogs have a special area to which they are allocated. They are provided the same comforts as the passengers.

Not on the larger planes no, on the small (10-12 seaters) they do sometimes end up surrounded by luggage because the luggage hold is actually a "cupboard" in the plane rather than separate from the cabin in some planes. I was travelling on a 12 seater with a dog as excess baggage when one of the ground staff tried to stuff her into the luggage compartment with the crate vertical. He got called things that made him blush.

Yes I am aware of that. I have been breedeing and posting on planes all over Aust and other parts of the world. ;)

[shellbyville]

I fly pups & dogs out from Lismore NSW. They do go in the luggage compartment at the back of the plane. Luckily you can watch them loaded, as small planes only fly out from Lismore, so if they were loaded roughly or cruelly everyone sitting in the airport lounge would see. Also you must stay until the plane is loaded because if there is too much luggage the dogs are loaded last, so if it is full, they can't fly!!!

Not sure what happens with dogs/pups on larger planes. I imagine they go in the luggage area as well!

[ellz]

It will be interesting to watch what Par Avion do in a week or so when I send a puppy to Flinders Island. I have to drive to Launceston to send him off (about 2 hours drive from here) but it is only costing $33 for the freight so I can't complain too much.

[Fit for a King]

Puppy was booked in at 12p.m. arrived at 5.10 p.m.

I feel that she was left sitting on the tarmac while waiting to be loaded. Absolute negligence.

She was booked in at 12 but for what time flight? Or did you book her in a few hours ahead and leave?

[BJean]

There's insinuation that the OP can be attributed partly at fault for the death of the puppy and I dont think this is right at all.

The OP paid for a service for the puppy to be transported; once handed to the transport company it is thier D.O.C. to ensure the puppy is given adequate care given the conditions on the day.

If day flights are so treacherous they should not accept bookings for that time - the onus is on the transport company as the professional serice provider.

Flying puppies whether the journey is short or long, day or night - the puppy should have all the care and provisions that a young puppy needs given the environment on the day.

Last litter I sent 6 puppies on 6 different flights across Australia, and I certainly would not accept that the puppies flying later in the day were not as well cared for, than the puppies that flew out earlier in the day.

Or that the puppy flying from Melbourne, Darwin, Broome

would suffer heat stress on his 11 hour journey.

I deliver the puppies to the transport company in the morning and I expect and demand that every puppy no matter when or where its destination, is given the professional care that the transport company is paid to ensure.

Redz, I am very sorry to read your loss and it must be very difficult for yourself and the puppy owners.

Edited February 3, 2010 by lilli

[ellz]

There's insinuation that the OP can be attributed partly at fault for the death of the puppy and I dont think this is right at all.

No insinuation from me whatsoever. I am STATING that the OP is partly responsible for the death of the puppy. Tough if you (or anybody else) doesn't like it. I would expect the same sort of backlash from others if it had been me posting that one of my puppies had died because I had sent it on a plane during the hottest part of the day and I would deserve it completely and whilst I wouldn't like it, I would have to take it on the chin.

The airline has no duty of care whatsoever. They are paid to send freight and they do not freight animals willingly. Why do you think they are increasing their costs all the time, introducing breed bans and not freighting animals at all on weekends...it certainly isn't to encourage the shipping of animals.

Animals are not shipped as "livestock" they are shipped as either "same day" or "next day" FREIGHT. It wouldn't matter whether it was a puppy or a container of crayfish, the onus is on the person shipping the consignment to make a booking at a suitable time of day for the individual consignment and in the case of a live animal that is NOT in the middle of the day in a hot state in an Australian summer.

The loss of the puppy is regrettable and I do feel for the puppy, the owner AND the OP, but the OP has learned their lesson the hard way at the expense of the puppy. That is the saddest thing of all.

This is not the first time an animal's life has been lost and it won't be the last but there ARE measures that can be taken to ensure that a puppy arrives at its destination in a healthy condition and some of the practices named in this thread will certainly do that, whilst others would not.

[BJean]

Jet Pets, Dogtainers, Pets Express etc are professional service providers that specialise in the transport of animals, dogs, cats. They are paid for their expertise.

If it makes you feel alive to pontificate lament and decry woe me if it happens to you, go ahead

but the OP is not at fault here.

[ellz]

I don't recall that the OP has said that Jetpets, Dogtainers or anybody else were involved. All that has been mentioned is the AIRLINE.

IF one of the animal transport companies were involved then there MIGHT be some recourse, although if the transport was airport to airport then there is still little comeback.

Who is crying woe me apart from the OP? I'm saying that if it had BEEN me, then I would expect backlash and I would deserve it. I can't see that deserves your little parting shot.

There is responsibility to be taken all round. The only parties without any portion of "blame" are the puppy purchasers and the puppy itself and that is a simple fact whether you like it or not.

[centitout]

Ellz,you state that breeders should only send their pups on early morning flights.You are 2 hrs from the airport-i am 6 hrs from sydney, so a 12 hr return trip,bit of a difference.I could not afford to drive down 12 individual times,and stay o/n to put pups on early morning flights,freight is steep enough without that .That is why mine all fly out of Parkes regional to sydney for their connecting ones,that is a 3 hr return trip there.

And only breeding in the winter isnt practical or a solution for me as i have heard said before on a different thread,or might have been here.

I have delivered pups to the airport,only to have connecting flights delayed at sydney and they didnt arrive at the pick up airport till hours later-how can i control that?

They are all booked through Dogtainers,they are responsible for making sure my pup gets there on time,if the plane is delayed they should make sure there is someone available to check ,water pup-that is what we are paying for.

To the OP,again,very sorry for both you ,pup owners and the pup.

[Fit for a King]

I agree with Ellz - if the OP was doing the transporting to the airport then the OP is responsible for ensuring the pup has the least amount of stress possible - ie no 3 or 4 hour wait on a flight (unless of course the booked flight is changed) but if the OP decided to deliver the pup 3 or 4 hours early then buggar off because it suited her and leave it in the lap of the gods then I have sympathy for the puppy but not the OP. AAE for instance take care with animals but they are moving freight - pure and simple - the animal is just one of hundreds of items - you can't expect them (much as we would like to) to check every 10 minutes on an animal that is not flying for hours. If they did open the crate to add water etc and the animal escaped then there would be a hue and cry how careless they had been!

I have flown dogs within Qld and within Oz - for animals not travelling with me I lodge them at the latest time possible so their crate time is minimised. I NEVER fly them in the middle of the day in summer - that's craziness. And if they are travelling with me I lodge them as late as possible, go to the terminal and will not get on the flight until I see the crate being loaded...and I tell the girls at the gate that I won't be boarding until the crate is.

It isn't rocket science - just good animal management.

centiout - putting an animal through Dogtainers is a little different as you are paying THEM to ensure the safety of the animal. Booking an animal yourself straight through AAE YOU assume the risk...to AAE, as I said above, it is just another piece of freight.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Fit for a King

[Dogsfevr]

Jet Pets, Dogtainers, Pets Express etc are professional service providers that specialise in the transport of animals, dogs, cats. They are paid for their expertise.

If it makes you feel alive to pontificate lament and decry woe me if it happens to you, go ahead

but the OP is not at fault here.

But they still simply deliever dogs like we do.They dont sit there & wait,they off load & are gone

I should also add we have had dogs picked up through the kennels arranged by the owners themselves.

We would have preferred to deliver but its the owners choice.

Some of these dogs where picked up 3/4 before they where required for lodgement.For some they spent nearly 4 hrs in a plus the 9o mins lodgement time.

I too fly flights to suit the dogs,i have frozen water buckets(summer) or water licker bottles.

We lodge the dogs & then wait with them until staff wish to move them.

Some off the flight times are a pain BUT its up to me to minimise the risk.

I would never feed either before being lodged.

I often fly during the warmer months & have never had a dog arrive distressed & my guys are large breeds & one is black.The staff have always been very accommodating & we treat them with respect.

My last flight was a night flight on a very hot day & the staff where super & the ground staff too.

I have had one issue with adog left behind but considering i fly yearly for dogs & have done so for 24 yrs i think that is great.Never had any other issue at all that also includes pups brought & flown over.

I can appreciate people need to drive longer distances but when you breed that is something that you now will happen & you have to put yourself out or make sure your price includes some form of freight cost

[Sandra777]

If they did open the crate to add water

Moot point, you're not allowed water bowls in their crates anymore. Madness, pure and simple. The advice to freeze some water in a bottle so the dog could lick off the condensation was not well received here

I agree that in your case Centiout, Ellz's post is an impossible sceanario, but in this particular case we are talking about a simple airport to airport hop, different thing to what you have to try to organise

[Ozstar]

Jet Pets, Dogtainers, Pets Express etc are professional service providers that specialise in the transport of animals, dogs, cats. They are paid for their expertise.

All these guys do if flying within Australia is book the flight, have a crate waiting at the airport (if you are hiring a crate) and will pick up from your place for extra money but again pup is put in the crate and that is it.

I am not saying they are bad as I always use dogtainers but if you are the one taking the pup to the airport then they never even see the dog in question.

Airline staff can not open a crate and give the dogs water. We ourselves have made it like this as a few dogs have escaped when staff have tried to do this.

It is getting so airports do not want to take in dogs anymore and I am sure that it will not be long that no dog will be able to fly unless you are on the flight too.

I am not saying that what is happening is fine but it is up to us to make sure that any animal is safe and secure not airline staff.

Leanne

[ellz]

My scenario is not so impossible. As I've stated, in the past, I've arranged for puppies to be collected a day before the flight and boarded overnight at the transporter's kennels so as to be ABLE to make an impossible flight time, when I've not been in a position to get there myself. And it wasn't so long ago that I didn't have a drivers licence so most of my transactions had to be at the least pick-up from my home at MY expense.

There ARE ways around these things. They might take more organising and they might cost a lot more money but it CAN be done.

Thank you to those who have appreciated what I have said. I'm not an ogre, no matter how people would like to present me. But I DO care about my dogs and would do anything in my power to ensure their safety even if it means inconveniencing myself with timing, transport or financially.

[anatolian]

I guess It's time that I contributed to this thread, I have probably sent around 80 pups throughout Australia, NZ, 'The world' and have great respect for what these 'professional pet transporters' do. Sure sometimes it costs a little bit more but quite often it is cheaper to book through them instead of going direct to the airline.

Jetpets, Dogtainers and the likes have special 'bulk' pricing from the airlines and pass these savings on to us, the consumer.

I always activate the 'free 6 week insurance' to ensure the pup is covered on the flight out and in case anything does go wrong. I never feed the animals beforehand - learnt that by my own mistake with a puppy that went to Hawaii - Pooh and wee everywhere when he arrived.

I lodge the puppy at the latest time possible, and of course I make sure that the flight isnt delayed / heater working / any other problems. I contact my puppy buyer to let them know that the puppy has been delivered to the airport.

If I cant make a flight time - then TOUGH - the puppy goes on a flight that I can make it to - as long as it is ok with the buyer.

Only once has a flight been cancelled on me at the last minute - with me taking the puppy to Dogtainers office myself for a 'next day' flight.

I have also had one puppy supposedly flying from syd - perth for another connecting flight, however in AAE ultimate wisdom, they decided it was better for this poor puppy to fly to melbourne first - needless to say it was a close call but he did make that connecting flight.

It gets extremely hot in the cargo hold and I too try to avoid sending dogs in the middle of the day.

[BJean]

Jet Pets, Dogtainers, Pets Express etc are professional service providers that specialise in the transport of animals, dogs, cats. They are paid for their expertise.

All these guys do if flying within Australia is book the flight, have a crate waiting at the airport (if you are hiring a crate) and will pick up from your place for extra money but again pup is put in the crate and that is it.

I am not saying they are bad as I always use dogtainers but if you are the one taking the pup to the airport then they never even see the dog in question.

Airline staff can not open a crate and give the dogs water. We ourselves have made it like this as a few dogs have escaped when staff have tried to do this.

It is getting so airports do not want to take in dogs anymore and I am sure that it will not be long that no dog will be able to fly unless you are on the flight too.

I am not saying that what is happening is fine but it is up to us to make sure that any animal is safe and secure not airline staff.

Leanne

Ahh, see in Melbourne I use Jet Pets and they are pretty much in the extended airport complex;

I always drop off the pups at Jet Pets Tullamarine and pups get picked up by the owners at the receiving airport -

unless pup/dog is going o/s.

Twice now I have had a pup booked, one to Perth last year and last week to New Zealand

and on those instances Jet Pets called me to tell me the airconditioning in the cargo was not working and therefore they recommend I send the pup/dog on another flight.

Jet Pets check times, interval waiting time and flight conditions for the animals they send.

yes lol I like Jet Pets, can't fault them :D

I used to use Dogtainers, but for me Jet Pets give a better price and service.

nb: Last year when I put one puppy in a crate that was going to have an 11 hour journey, JP told me they would give him water and then remove it just before his flight.

I dont know maybe Jet Pets in Melbourne are different to other states :D

[sandgrubber]

Might add that sometimes the pet transport companies go out of their way to do things right. I sent a pup on what was supposed to be a short flight from Perth to the far north of WA with one of the major pet movers. Oops. The plane couldn't land at the airport (bushfire, if I remember right) and went on to its second destination. The shippers took the puppy home and it spent the night in their house. They kept in touch about what was happening .. . the puppy apparently had a great time .. . . and the puppy buyer said the pup arrived in great shape with no sign of trauma.

Edited February 3, 2010 by sandgrubber