Frankston Council (vic)

[SpikesPuppy]

The regulation ALSO poses a big issue for those who do not know the dangers of early desexing, who follow council and (some) vet advice and go ahead and desex at 3 months, maybe even 8 weeks. The very fact that the council is advocating/forcing early desexing is IMO distressing.

Not only that SP

Frankston Council advises owners to get their puppy/dog desexed "at the time that they get it" -

"If you do not intend to breed from a pet, it should be desexed at the time you get it"

Why?

Because according to Frankston Council:

Tens of thousands of healthy dogs and cats are euthanased each year in Victoria. This is because there is not enough homes that can be found for them. We have an 'over supply' of pets.

That quote in itself makes no sense??? "If you do not intend to breed from a pet"...... ummm..... yeah okay.

[Rebanne]

I do agree, and I too would not register the dog until it was of age to be desexed, but then... how do you excercise the animal if it does not have a registration tag on it's collar?

in 18 years of living at the same address I have only had rangers do their door to door check once! Even though they do it annually. And I only had to show them one tag, they never asked to see all of them. (The collar and tag were hanging on hook on the front porch). I have never ever, wherever I have lived, been spoken to a ranger while out walking my dog, so have never had one check my dogs collar for tags. One of mine lost their tag soon after the I got the new ones, I still haven't got a replacement ;) I'll get a new one in April when I renew

[Jed]

Erny

Smoking cigarettes, not all that long ago, was a 'cool' thing to do. Now it is anti-social and those who smoke (*cough* ) often feel a social outcast for smoking when we do. The campaign that brought THAT about heavily targeted media representation to broadcast it. THAT was education. IF the Government and other orgs really care, why not pit together and spend their collective dollars on media campaigns rendering it 'not the done thing' to buy and house pups/dogs irresponsibly. Not the done thing to not be responsible.

Sorry, I HAVE to do this.

60% of people who contract lung cancer to not smoke

40% of people who contract lung cancer do smoke.

World Health Organisation says there are no statistics to show that passive smoking causes problems

Another crock of.

[SpikesPuppy]

I do agree, and I too would not register the dog until it was of age to be desexed, but then... how do you excercise the animal if it does not have a registration tag on it's collar?

in 18 years of living at the same address I have only had rangers do their door to door check once! Even though they do it annually. And I only had to show them one tag, they never asked to see all of them. (The collar and tag were hanging on hook on the front porch). I have never ever, wherever I have lived, been spoken to a ranger while out walking my dog, so have never had one check my dogs collar for tags. One of mine lost their tag soon after the I got the new ones, I still haven't got a replacement I'll get a new one in April when I renew

We have never had the council door knock here or in our previous suburb- but have had the dog's checked while walking Bloody pain in the ass too because I use different collars depending on what our walk is so I have to make sure I change the bloody tags over!!

I'm not telling people NOT to do it but it's a risk, and could result in a decent sized fine Just sucks, the whole thing. It's a risk I would take, btw (or just switch tags depending on who I'm walking at the time ), we also get one tag for the lifetime of the pet... should just keep 'loosing' them and start a collection ;)

Edited January 24, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Longcoat]

Purely out of interest, does a vasectomy in a male dog classify as desexed under this legislation???

[Longcoat]

I do agree, and I too would not register the dog until it was of age to be desexed, but then... how do you excercise the animal if it does not have a registration tag on it's collar?

in 18 years of living at the same address I have only had rangers do their door to door check once! Even though they do it annually. And I only had to show them one tag, they never asked to see all of them. (The collar and tag were hanging on hook on the front porch). I have never ever, wherever I have lived, been spoken to a ranger while out walking my dog, so have never had one check my dogs collar for tags. One of mine lost their tag soon after the I got the new ones, I still haven't got a replacement ;) I'll get a new one in April when I renew

SA is defininitely more relaxed in dog laws than Vic, but I have never been approached by a ranger on a walk either, can't say I have ever seen a ranger out and about full stop. I don't know where my dog tags are exactly, would have to hunt around for them???.

[felix]

Purely out of interest, does a vasectomy in a male dog classify as desexed under this legislation???

That's a good question. I'd love to know the answer too.

[Harry Corbett]

Hi Harry ;) (couldn't find a non-xmas wave )

Great that you could redress the bias,

and have your say -

I hope the link I posted of you was not of detriment,

I thought it necessary so readers could see there was veterinary opposition to MDL -

Frankston Council is presenting MDL and early desexing as endorsed by the AVA.

L:)

No Lilli, just fine with me. Veterinary practitioners do not support what is going on in Frankston; far from it. The AVA does not listen to them.

[BJean]

Hi Harry ;) (couldn't find a non-xmas wave )

Great that you could redress the bias,

and have your say -

I hope the link I posted of you was not of detriment,

I thought it necessary so readers could see there was veterinary opposition to MDL -

Frankston Council is presenting MDL and early desexing as endorsed by the AVA.

L:)

No Lilli, just fine with me. Veterinary practitioners do not support what is going on in Frankston; far from it. The AVA does not listen to them.

Hmm

that's interesting.

There is a seminar on Feb 11th, headed by Dr Mcgreevy on all dogs paritcularly their breeding -

I think 'responsible' dog ownership will be part if it ie what determines a responsible dog owner and what is a 'responsible' dog to own.

Are you aware of McGreevy or the seminar being held on Feb 11 at Monash?

[BJean]

lilli - are you saying that you don't think that there is an oversupply of pets??

Yes.

Do you believe that there is an overpopulation of pets?

If so, why?

Do you think people dump their cats/dogs because there are so many of them, that they know they can easily get another?

Or the numbers of cats/dogs then pts at pounds - are they pts becasue there are no homes for them or they are not rehomeable? If there are no homes for them is that oversupply? oversupply of pets or over supply of owners no longer wanting or careing for their pets? The streams of animals into the pound - excluding ferals (which are a significant proportion of cats) - why are these not reclaimed? Where are their onwers? Why are these pups/dogs/cats not wanted? that is the issue,

not overpopulation.

You may find the report on MDL in the ACT and how/why it did NOT work interesting reading.

;)

Edited January 24, 2010 by lilli

[Harry Corbett]

Jed, a bit on the statistics of smoking.

If you have a group of 100,000 randomly selected smokers 150 of them will get lung cancer.

If you have a group of 100,000 randomly selected non-smokers 6 of them will get lung cancer.

So, the Relative Risk carried by a smoker is 25.

The RR associated with ETS is 1.19 which is so low as to be ludicrous. Normally it is best to disregard anything where the RR is below 3.

Lilli, Am aware of the GabFest. Whenever the word "responsible" is used I reach for the rifle!!

Vasectomies will not stop a male dog wandering for sexual purposes so, does not qualify as "desexing"

Victorian councils have on-line access to microchip data associated with their municipal district so they can quickly check the list and, if the pet is not registered, they can call around and check to see if it has been desexed. If not, they can impound it in those municipalities where MDLs operate. You do not get it back until some unknown veterinarian desexes it.

[BJean]

Lilli, Am aware of the GabFest. Whenever the word "responsible" is used I reach for the rifle!!

Vasectomies will not stop a male dog wandering for sexual purposes so, does not qualify as "desexing"

Victorian councils have on-line access to microchip data associated with their municipal district so they can quickly check the list and, if the pet is not registered, they can call around and check to see if it has been desexed. If not, they can impound it in those municipalities where MDLs operate. You do not get it back until some unknown veterinarian desexes it.

Its all about 'Building better dogs', yet Mcgreevy specialises in animal behaviour

and Pauline Bennet in Human behaviour.

an odd tag team to head a seminar on telling the world how to 'build better dogs', sounds like a bunch of crazy scientists to me,

trying to work their Frankenstein ...

why dont you attend Harry? I will send you a PM/email

L:)

Edited January 24, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

...

Edited January 24, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

Please take note:

The issue of the euthanasia of shelter animals is a highly

emotive topic with significant buy in from the public, the media,

government, animal rights and animal welfare lobbies, the

veterinary community and various other stakeholders. The

author believes it is critical that assumptions are not made

which will see effort and funding expended on solutions that are

ineffective and unsustainable. The ultimate goal should be to

reduce companion animal suffering in the long term and of

course the horrible waste of canine and feline life through

euthanasia.

National figures on intake of dogs and cats and euthanasia

figures for RSPCA are available on the national website (and

represented in Fig 1,2). What is clear from these figures is that

there has been significant decline in intake and euthanasia.

The number of dogs coming into Australian RSPCA shelters peaked

at 80,776 in 1997-1998

and has declined to 60,030 in 2004-2005;

this represents a reduction of 25.9%. At the same time

the euthanasia rate declined by 42.7%.

http://www.ccac.net.au/files/The_issue_of_...UAM06Lawrie.pdf

Edited January 24, 2010 by lilli

[Harry Corbett]

I am trying to round up as many cases as I can of people who have had their dogs forcibly desexed by councils; Frankston and Kingston being the most serious offenders but all cases welcome.

Especially interested in cases where an entire animal is currently impounded and the owners are being hassled to have it desexed before they can get it released from the pound.

Affected owners can write to me at 330 Canterbury Road, Bayswater, 3153 or if they are able to E-mail (much better for speed) contact me at [email protected]

[Erny]

Off-hand, I don't know of anyone, Harry. But I will keep an ear out and, with this knowledge, actually raise the question should I think it a possibility, and will direct people who have been so affected to your email address.

[Harry Corbett]

Off-hand, I don't know of anyone, Harry. But I will keep an ear out and, with this knowledge, actually raise the question should I think it a possibility, and will direct people who have been so affected to your email address.

Thanks Ernie. We really only need a half a dozen cases where councils have been forced to release pets without desexing to prove that the law is not as cut and dried as councils (Frankston and Kingston in particular) make out.

They are probably desexing 2 or 3 pets each week at the Cranbourne pound which acts for several councils.

[Erny]

Thanks Ernie. We really only need a half a dozen cases where councils have been forced to release pets without desexing to prove that the law is not as cut and dried as councils (Frankston and Kingston in particular) make out.

Just checking - you are looking for cases where dogs have been impounded and forcibly desexed prior to release, or are you looking for cases where dogs have been impounded and the council has been forced to release dogs without desexing.

Sorry that I'm a little confused on what you're after. Or perhaps you would like to hear from both?

As I mentioned, I don't know of anyone who has had either of these experiences, but you just never know who you might come across .

[Longcoat]

Jed, a bit on the statistics of smoking.

If you have a group of 100,000 randomly selected smokers 150 of them will get lung cancer.

If you have a group of 100,000 randomly selected non-smokers 6 of them will get lung cancer.

So, the Relative Risk carried by a smoker is 25.

The RR associated with ETS is 1.19 which is so low as to be ludicrous. Normally it is best to disregard anything where the RR is below 3.

Lilli, Am aware of the GabFest. Whenever the word "responsible" is used I reach for the rifle!!

Vasectomies will not stop a male dog wandering for sexual purposes so, does not qualify as "desexing"Victorian councils have on-line access to microchip data associated with their municipal district so they can quickly check the list and, if the pet is not registered, they can call around and check to see if it has been desexed. If not, they can impound it in those municipalities where MDLs operate. You do not get it back until some unknown veterinarian desexes it.

The reason I asked about vasectomies is that the legilsation requires the dog to be "sterilised" which means unable to reproduce. The legislation doesn't say neutering or desexed. A male dog with a vasectomy is "sterilised" as the legislation requires???.

[Harry Corbett]

Ernie:

I want owners who have had their pets desexed by Frankston and am also keen to get in touch with people whose pet is currently impounded and the council is demanding they have it desexed before release.

Longcoat:

The Domestic (Feral & Nuisance) Animals Act does not use the word “sterilised” only “desexed” but the word is not defined. Vasectomy in the male and tying off the “tubes” in the female will render the animals sterile and I have heard anecdotally of at least one council allowing the use of a drug that temporarily renders male dogs infertile.

I would grant the point is arguable, especially when there is no definition within the DAA. However dogs wandering for sexual purposes is not influenced by vasectomies etc and this is one of the things councils are concerned about. I think they will hang their hat on a definition of desexing that encompasses the removal of those organs that produce the hormones.