shoemonster Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Jess live die, you are talking about an experience with a completely different breed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I assume it was because entire dogs are more likely to fight then desexed dogs. Whatever you do, desex both of them if you decide to get them or the single dog if you go that path. Just curious about what led you to this comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Whatever you do, desex both of them if you decide to get them or the single dog if you go that path. Just curious about what led you to this comment? Because the last thing you need with two young male staffords is for both of them to be loaded with testosterone and entire male staffords are the unfortunate target of dog thieves. Please tell me you weren't considering leaving both of them entire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD26 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Good on you for doing the research, just make sure your conclusions aren't biased by what you really want (today). Yes, there are things you can do that will give you the best chance of success. I've already mentioned that "dominance theory" is the leadership method most reported in failed inter-dog relationships, and suggested some things you should very strongly condition.I had someone ask me exactly the same question about 18 months ago. I gave the same answers. They discounted my advice, went through a lot of heart-ache, and now one of the dogs has been rehomed. I rang them up and said "I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!" (just kidding about the last bit, but you know I wanted to!) Gosh I have a lot to learn about the "technicalities"! I just googled "dominance theory" and agree with you that I wouldn't use that sort of training. Isn't it most likely to produce agressive dogs in general? I know that kind of training wreaks havoc in pit bulls. In the past I've always gone towards a general rule of disciplining dogs much the same as I would discipline a toddler, with firm guidance and redirection. None of those rules are hard and fast. Play fighting is useful, dogs learn from it. I would never separate dogs just because they are play-fighting. I would also prefer dogs who can eat together and don't resource guard. I also like to be able to train my dogs together, stuff that they already know. In fact, the more they can do together, the better - so long as they aren't "attached at the hip" and so long as they pay attention to you FIRST. If dogs learn from play fighting what about single dogs? Of course we'd train the pups not to guard their food, but this can be done one on one. What we're thinking at this stage is giving them "together time" for about an hour in the afternoons.. These are some of the websites I've found about littermates, what do you think? http://www.caninedevelopment.com/Sibling.htm http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) These are some of the websites I've found about littermates, what do you think? http://www.caninedevelopment.com/Sibling.htm http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml Sound advice - the most important part of which is to avoid choosing littermates if you can. If you need to break up a fight, squirt the dogs with water or make a noise aversion fallback to break the circle of aggression and to distract them. Never attempt to break up a dog fight by grabbing the dogs by their collar or getting in between them. If this trainer thinks a squirt with water or clapping their hands will break up a SERIOUS fight, they're deluding themsleves. Not grabbing dogs is sound advice - that's why an aquaintance of mine needed microsurgery.. and that was two Cocker Spaniels having a dust up, not bull breeds. Edited January 21, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 If you need to break up a fight, squirt the dogs with water or make a noise aversion hasn't worked for me yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 e pups not to guard their food, but this can be done one on one. How can you possibly train ADULT dogs not to guard their food from each other by teaching puppies without the presence of another dog? What we're thinking at this stage is giving them "together time" for about an hour in the afternoons.. During which time they will be so overexcited adolescent play fighting could become a full on brawl in seconds. Do you know it can take literally seconds for one dog to take the eye or ear off another? Staffords don't fight like other dogs - when they do it they mean it. Squirting water will do nothing - you had better either buy and learn how to use a breaking stick or keep collars on them AT ALL TIMES and learn how to choak them off. Incidentally - have you ever seen a Stafford run straight through a plate glass window and latch on to another dog even with a huge shard of glass poking out of his ribcage? Sorry if you don't want to be "told" no - grow a pair and tell your son that he can't have the puppy he wants, or do yourself a favour and buy his puppy and get one (of the opposite sex) for yourself in 18 months time. I still cannot believe any ethical breeder would sell two male puppies to a pet home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Before you think I'm just one more person telling you it may not work out, there's one thing I'd love to know. You haven't even picked these puppies up and you're already thinking one may have to be rehomed? Are you for real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I know you have said you are committed to both puppies... is it because the deposit is a large sum ,and you'll lose it all?Or is it maybe a promise to your lad that you will not break? I am not good at maths... but a deposit on one , if lost ,surely could not be more than a completely separate/strong kennel/run set up, 2 crates, 2 of everything else..incl. desexing/vacc's etc. If it is a promise.. the keep the pup which your lad picked as 'his' , mentor him with it, let him be the one to do a a lot of the handling/grooming, etc, and watch him shine with pride at 'his' beautiful pup , to which he can devote ALL his time and energies without worrying about what the other pup is doing/thinking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 My only advice since you have not personally owned multiple dogs is borrow 3 dogs (which will still be less workload then 2 puppies) for a day and try to train/walk/play/pet/groom/feed them seperatley and see how it goes. Even better would be to borrow dogs that are not housetrained and keep them in your house, that is pretty good practice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 You say you want the joys of having littermates? Then you say that you're going to keep them seperated unless supervised for at least the first 12 months? And you won't walk them together. OK. Why bother? Really? They're not going to enjoy it if they do get along and NOBODY's going to enjoy it if they don't get along. It can be sheer hell. Even if your history and your family's history is of owning bull breeds. How many fights have you actually broken up? What if your son witnessed a fight that you couldn't stop. Pay no mind to stories of using a hose or grabbing testicles. They don't work. How do I know? Experience unfortunately, the same as many others who have answered in this thread. I know it may seem like damned if you do or don't but we can only call it as we see it and the last thing we would want to hear of is the demise of one of your dogs. I note that you would rehome one of the dogs if it didn't work out. Poor dog. Rehoming a mature age dog can be difficult, many end up in the pound and then just become another statistic. They are not disposable and it would save one of your potential dogs a hell of a lot of heartache if you got out of your 'predicament' as you call it now. Think a little further down the track than just what you want for today. It's because of our own experience that I am saying get one pup now, make it the best puppy in the world, love it to death, train it, socialise it. Twelve months down the track get your second pup, though you will probably find that one larger than life Stafford is more than enough. I doubt whether your son will mind not having two puppies and I do think it's a great thing for him to be responsible for a pet at his age. Any breeder worth their salt would be more than willing to 'reclaim' one of your chosen pups if you talked it through with them and to be honest I am surprised they agreed to it in the first place. Don't think of it as giving up a puppy, think of it as giving the best possible life to teh one puppy you take home and being able to enjoy it fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Sol's experience is one that stays fresh in my mind. What did your vet bill end up and how long long did it take yours to recover ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoL Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 The vet's bill I don't like to think about - safe to say it took us a while to pay it off and the vet had a good holiday! Recovery for the dog took around 12 weeks in total, 6 weeks intensive, as anerobic infection set in and we were lucky not to lose a leg. Over an hour on the table stitching up, back to the table to treat the infection and clean out the rotting flesh close to the bone, meaning iv meds and anesthesia, emergency vets fees, not to mention initial meds, ongoing meds, repeat visits, and the fact that life was never the same again. This happened, mind you, whilst there was someone there, supervising. There have been scuffles before that and since, but that incident, stays fresh in my mind too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD26 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Whatever you do, desex both of them if you decide to get them or the single dog if you go that path. Just curious about what led you to this comment? Because the last thing you need with two young male staffords is for both of them to be loaded with testosterone and entire male staffords are the unfortunate target of dog thieves. Please tell me you weren't considering leaving both of them entire. No, we weren't. I was just wondering why you'd said even if we got only one to have them desexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 No, we weren't. I was just wondering why you'd said even if we got only one to have them desexed. Basically to protect him. The thought of my beloved family pet ending up in a fighting pit is beyond horrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD26 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 You say you want the joys of having littermates? Then you say that you're going to keep them seperated unless supervised for at least the first 12 months? And you won't walk them together. OK. Why bother? Really? They're not going to enjoy it if they do get along and NOBODY's going to enjoy it if they don't get along. It can be sheer hell. Even if your history and your family's history is of owning bull breeds. How many fights have you actually broken up? What if your son witnessed a fight that you couldn't stop. Pay no mind to stories of using a hose or grabbing testicles. They don't work. How do I know? Experience unfortunately, the same as many others who have answered in this thread. I know it may seem like damned if you do or don't but we can only call it as we see it and the last thing we would want to hear of is the demise of one of your dogs. I note that you would rehome one of the dogs if it didn't work out. Poor dog. Rehoming a mature age dog can be difficult, many end up in the pound and then just become another statistic. They are not disposable and it would save one of your potential dogs a hell of a lot of heartache if you got out of your 'predicament' as you call it now. Think a little further down the track than just what you want for today. It's because of our own experience that I am saying get one pup now, make it the best puppy in the world, love it to death, train it, socialise it. Twelve months down the track get your second pup, though you will probably find that one larger than life Stafford is more than enough. I doubt whether your son will mind not having two puppies and I do think it's a great thing for him to be responsible for a pet at his age. Any breeder worth their salt would be more than willing to 'reclaim' one of your chosen pups if you talked it through with them and to be honest I am surprised they agreed to it in the first place. Don't think of it as giving up a puppy, think of it as giving the best possible life to teh one puppy you take home and being able to enjoy it fully. I just want to clarify the rehoming bit. I would NEVER get a dog (or any pet) with the INTENTION of rehoming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pandii Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I had 2 rottweiler males not desexed both unde 12 months fight, not a pleasent sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Totally agree with advice you've been given. Not only would you need to separate them, but you would have to build totally SEPERATE runs, its amazing how much flesh (ears, lips, tails, legs, ect...) that can be PULLED THROUGH heavy duty chainlink or mesh. I've been the vet nurse on duty when a staffy breeder brought in two male littermates that had accidentallly been put in adjoining runs - they both had horrific injuries, one so bad it was euthenased. I've lived the 'musical dogs' life, (one in, one out, don't ) its stressful for everyone, and you live with the fear in your gut of a mistake being made. and yes, pets should be desexed, you don't want to add that toey mix of bull breed, testosterone and a male rival to your home. Dogs don't miss their testicles, and are still the same dog - just less driven. fifi Edited January 21, 2010 by fifi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD26 Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 You shall all be happy to know that I've let go of my determined spirit long enough to truly consider things (rationally) and decided to forgo the puppies. I think the main two things that prevented me from getting these puppies were that a) I've started questioning the breeder after all was said..it's hard to write her off as just naive, and b) we lost our last staffy in an attack (so it's been very painful to hear all of your stories, btw), and my heart breaks at the idea of getting ourselves into any sort of risk with our next baby(s). It didn't feel right to get just one of these dogs..so we've decided on a new breeder entirely. I hope I can enjoy the rest of my time on this forum after getting off to a rough start. I've truly fallen in love with staffies and want to learn as much about them as I possibly can, and I do hope this will be a good resource for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Good on you for sticking around FD26 - and for making a tough decision. I don't think you'll regret it in the long run. Check out the Stafford thread in dog breeds 101 - lots of good info on health testing and other things an ethical breeder will be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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