Dependence To Much On The Crate?

[W Sibs]

Can it be possible that a dog is too dependent to their crate?

I'm asking because I've never crate trained my dog before.. I didn't even train Charlie!! He just happen to love his crate. But, right now, he is loving it bit too much? I dunno.

Here is my situation:

The other day, i did a little experiment... I carried him downstairs to the living room and left his crate upstairs. He was totally fine. Walking around, playing with me, he took his naps outside in the sun.. like he always did. Then, after lunch.. I took his crate down... his whole body change. He saw the crate, then quickly rushed into and sat in there. And, the cycle of him being scared of getting out of the crates starts all over.

Cycle is... he wants to come out. But, instead stands at the door of his crate.. his body all tense up, the hestitation of stepping out (we have cut the lower bar on his crate so he no longer has to step over the bar at the crate to step out.. if that makes sense), and the fear of stepping out, in case he is in pain again. Once he steps out, he is all fine again. Somedays, he gets his fear get the better of him and just remains in there for the rest of the day. He will then whining to get everyone's attention (which we ignore. we look to see that he is physically alright.. if he is ok, we ignore his whining).

Since Charlie has been sick... we have been having unpredictable days. Few days and weeks he will be back to his old self... cheeky, playful, fearless little fella that we love (and lately really miss)... and there are days, like the past few days, where he has his low days where he just want to stay in his crate, don't want to leave. Gets all sad and mopey.

I think he is losing confident in being a dog or maybe I'm expecting too much from him too soon. His recovery is going to be a very slow and long process.

Quick Add: He does have a mat in the living room where he rest on. So when I left the crate upstairs, he went to rest and nap on his mat.

Edited January 20, 2010 by charleswentworth

[Loving my Oldies]

From what you describe, it could be that he is associating his crate with pain, at least the getting out of it part. Although he runs into it now, in the first place when he HAD to be crated and then taken out to toilet, etc, it hurt him.

Some learned behaviours are learned very quickly - good and bad.

Poor Charlie, Vi. I do hope the little boy can be brought back to full health. He is only a baby.

[W Sibs]

From what you describe, it could be that he is associating his crate with pain, at least the getting out of it part. Although he runs into it now, in the first place when he HAD to be crated and then taken out to toilet, etc, it hurt him.

Some learned behaviours are learned very quickly - good and bad.

Poor Charlie, Vi. I do hope the little boy can be brought back to full health. He is only a baby.

Hmm.. interesting.

He will get better again, Cynthia. Just going to take a while for him to be

[persephone]

May I also suggest that when he was so ill- you carried him around everywhere with you in his crate I remember you saying that you took him outside etc.... perhaps , because he was fussed over so while IN the crate, and it hurt when he was OUt.... it seems a good idea to stay IN it now

Maybe you should start being a bit 'tougher'..and ONLY talk to him/praise him, when he is out of the crate, and doing stuff?

Edited January 20, 2010 by persephone

[W Sibs]

May I also suggest that when he was so ill- you carried him around everywhere with you in his crate ;) I remember you saying that you took him outside etc.... perhaps , because he was fussed over so while IN the crate, and it hurt when he was OUt.... it seems a good idea to stay IN it now

Maybe you should start being a bit 'tougher'..and ONLY talk to him/praise him, when he is out of the crate, and doing stuff?

Yeah... my dad said the same thing

We still take him out to the park with the crate too. Only because we don't know when he can be sore again. It's very unpredictable.

I've been tougher on him when he is in his crate now, I leave him alone and don't pay any attention to him. Although, he will still try to whine when he wants attention... if boyfriend's brother is over.. OMG.. my fella can really put on a show!! We are all starting to ignore him.

[Loving my Oldies]

Does he still need to go into his crate? You said he was fine until you brought the crate down after lunch and he rushed into it.

Thinking on the run

[Kelpie-i]

Whilst not exactly the same, here is a similar situation with my youngest kelpie Gabe that happened last year.

All 4 of my dogs sleep in side on their mats. The old GSD boy sleeps near the kitchen table and he has a habit of kicking in his sleep. One night, he must have kicked too hard and toppled one of the chairs which made a loud thud. I awoke and ran into the lounge/kitchen area to find Buddy (GSD) standing looking a little dazed and Gabe (kelpie) trembling with fear. He headed for the door....he wanted OUT...and NOW!

For a few nights after that, when all the dogs came in to settle down for the night, Gabe was extremely reluctant to come inside. I would try to coax him in, even bribe him with food (it was winter and bitterly cold outside) and whilst that managed to get him in, he was not settled at all. It seemed that the more I fussed, the worse he got.

So I put on my "dog trainers hat" on and decided that if he really wanted to sleep outside then best to leave him to it. I stopped trying to get him to come inside and eventually after a week, he decided it was way too cold and came in on his own. A little apprehensive at first but I left him to his own devices and found that he settled down without a problem.

Sometimes, the more we fuss, the worse we make things. And as any good dog owner wants to do the best for their dogs, I do believe that letting sleeping dogs lie (pun uninteded) can, on some ocassions, work the best.

The crate is obviously the trigger for his behaviour due to the association with illness/pain, so you can either remove it all together or do a whole heap of counter conditioning work to get him comfortable with it again.

[W Sibs]

MM (aka Cyn.. still getting use of your new name!): I think there are days where he still need his crates, but not so much. We still need to bring the crate with us wherever we go. For just in case situations. One minute he can be walking and then next he will stand still and he doesn't want anyone touch him.

Kelpie-i: You gave me an idea. I think I will start monitoring his crate usage. When I'm at home, I will put the crate away so that he can forget about it. He still has his mat where he can go rest on when he is tired. I will bring the crate down when I see that he has had enough. Is this a good idea?

I came home today.. my sister said he stayed in the crate all day. I ignored him, and within a few minutes he came over to say hello. He was rewards with a lot of praises, kisses, cuddles and liver treats He is now in the backyard watching the sky. He helped me do the wedding in the garden too..

[Kelpie-i]

Kelpie-i: You gave me an idea. I think I will start monitoring his crate usage. When I'm at home, I will put the crate away so that he can forget about it. He still has his mat where he can go rest on when he is tired. I will bring the crate down when I see that he has had enough. Is this a good idea?

I came home today.. my sister said he stayed in the crate all day. I ignored him, and within a few minutes he came over to say hello. He was rewards with a lot of praises, kisses, cuddles and liver treats He is now in the backyard watching the sky. He helped me do the wedding in the garden too..

The highlighted bit is your clue.

Another idea, which behaviourist Bill Campbell is famous for, is the Jolly Routine. Since dogs have allelomimetic tendencies, means they mimic certain things, using the Jolly routine when he goes into one of his 'crate fear' states might work.

If he is in the crate and starts to act fearful etc, go into another room, put on the music and pretend that you are having so much fun, act happy and well....jolly. His curiosity will get the better of him and he will come out to have a squizz at what the hell you are doing. The jolly routine is supposed to help change the mood in the dog since they tend to mimic our moods. So once he's out, it's party time!

Well worth a try.

[persephone]

...Mind you, if Charlie is still unwell... and he is expecting pain .. does resting in his crate do anyone any harm?

I would be inclined to leave his crate .. and bed/s as normal.. and don't force him to stay out of his crate.let him make the decisions.... stay in his crate and rest- but with no people interaction... or come out and socialise gently.

No calling, or encouraging either way.... just let him work it through...

[Kelpie-i]

Wasn't aware that he is still unwell, my apologies...therefore persephone is correct as well my initial advice of just letting him be.

The jolly routine is good but the dog really needs to be feeling well for it to help.