Waiting For A Puppy This Thread Is For You

[Steph M]

So what's the program consist of and why would it NOT be supported? Forgive my ignorance :)

From what I could tell they crossed in a pointer somewhere along the way to get low acid dogs. These dogs were then bred into the dally gene pool and some people think of them as crossbreds sort of like the bob tail boxers. I think the whole program is amazing.

--Lhok

I read a little bit about it, there's a tiny teeny bit of pointer outcrossed in about 15 generations back and so therefore not 'purebred' but recently (if I'm not mistaken) a LUA dalmation went to Crufts, so that sounds like a mega step forward.

Here's her wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiacre's_First_and_Foremost

She looks lovely to me! And as the owner of a breed susceptible to cancers at things at a younger age I can't get behind programs like this enough!

[whippytails]

I also didnt know about LUA and HUA in Dalmatians but I havent researched into them. Thats really interesting DashDotDash, good on you for working on it.

I hope that the best news is headed your way Lhok.

[cassie]

I never knew Dallies had urinary problems! So every Dally, other than those lines mixed with Pointers many generations back, have HUA? What does HUA actually do to the dog, i.e. how is it affected? And how far back does the Pointer have to be to still consider the Dally "pure"? It's very interesting and certainly sounds like a positive program if the intention is for healthier dogs :)

[cassie]

On the edge of my seat Lhok! I hope you get the good news you so deserve ASAP! :D

[dotdashdot]

I never knew Dallies had urinary problems! So every Dally, other than those lines mixed with Pointers many generations back, have HUA? What does HUA actually do to the dog, i.e. how is it affected? And how far back does the Pointer have to be to still consider the Dally "pure"? It's very interesting and certainly sounds like a positive program if the intention is for healthier dogs :)

Everyone else has explained well about the LUA's, but I will elaborate.

So yes, originally every single Dalmatian (and currently every pure bred Dalmatian in Australia) is classed as High Uric Acid or HUA. They cannot metabolize purines, a form of protein found in high levels in organ meats, some red meats and other things. Dally owners have to be really on top of their dog's diet to prevent the stones forming. I will never give Cleo liver, other offal or beef, as well as some fish like herrings. Tuna is a rare treat. Her main protein sources are chicken, lamb and a bit of rabbit in the form of BARF patties.

Male dogs are more likely to develop stones, as shown by my friends on my Dalmatians of Aus and NZ group. Females can get them, but as males have a narrow tube to pee through, more chance of obstruction.

Not every dally descended from the pointer backcross is automatically LUA, but if a dally has two LUA parents, they WILL be LUA. This would be the ultimate goal, no HUA Dalmatians - it really has no benefit to be HUA. The LUA Dalmatians are 99.9% pure. Fiona (Fiacre First and Foremost) was the first to be accepted and shown, and I believe she was about 16 generations down the line.

This is a great link about the backcross project, http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/nash_research.htm and if you google "Dalmatian backcross project" you will get a lot more hits to read about.

The reason for the "blank spots" too is that because the AKC has only recently accepted LUA's, some of the first few generations on the AKC pedigree are missing. And the ANKC won't let us register a dog unless it has a complete pedigree with 3 generations. So technically we COULD import and have LUA pups here, but we couldn't show them until the blank spots are "filled". It's just easier for everyone to only have dogs with already filled pedigrees.

AND FFYI (fun for your information!) if I capture a cup of my dog's pee and put it in the fridge, and put it next to a cup of your dogs pee in the fridge(provided it is not a Dalmatian) they will show very different things!! Cleo's pee will go cloudy/milky and most other breeds will stay clear. Some other breeds are stone formers too, but I don't think they are as widely known (eg some mini schnauzers are prone apparently)

Edited July 10, 2013 by dotdashdot

[Lhok]

Getting closer! :D

--Lhok

[Boxbright]

WOW never knew that about a Dal, Always amazes me what I learn on this forum. getting excited for you

[Bjelkier]

Getting closer! :D

--Lhok

I excited for you and I have no idea what's going on! :laugh:

[RRPS]

My parents are picking up their puppy this weekend, even though she is not mine I still live at home so can enjoy puppy cuddles :)

She is a blue Standard Poodle.

I'm so excited!

[cassie]

Dotdashdot thankyou so much for explaining as I really had no idea about this issue in Dallies. I love learning new things. I would hope the majority of Dally owners and breeders are FOR this project.

[whippytails]

I never knew Dallies had urinary problems! So every Dally, other than those lines mixed with Pointers many generations back, have HUA? What does HUA actually do to the dog, i.e. how is it affected? And how far back does the Pointer have to be to still consider the Dally "pure"? It's very interesting and certainly sounds like a positive program if the intention is for healthier dogs :)

Everyone else has explained well about the LUA's, but I will elaborate.

So yes, originally every single Dalmatian (and currently every pure bred Dalmatian in Australia) is classed as High Uric Acid or HUA. They cannot metabolize purines, a form of protein found in high levels in organ meats, some red meats and other things. Dally owners have to be really on top of their dog's diet to prevent the stones forming. I will never give Cleo liver, other offal or beef, as well as some fish like herrings. Tuna is a rare treat. Her main protein sources are chicken, lamb and a bit of rabbit in the form of BARF patties.

Male dogs are more likely to develop stones, as shown by my friends on my Dalmatians of Aus and NZ group. Females can get them, but as males have a narrow tube to pee through, more chance of obstruction.

Not every dally descended from the pointer backcross is automatically LUA, but if a dally has two LUA parents, they WILL be LUA. This would be the ultimate goal, no HUA Dalmatians - it really has no benefit to be HUA. The LUA Dalmatians are 99.9% pure. Fiona (Fiacre First and Foremost) was the first to be accepted and shown, and I believe she was about 16 generations down the line.

This is a great link about the backcross project, http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/nash_research.htm and if you google "Dalmatian backcross project" you will get a lot more hits to read about.

The reason for the "blank spots" too is that because the AKC has only recently accepted LUA's, some of the first few generations on the AKC pedigree are missing. And the ANKC won't let us register a dog unless it has a complete pedigree with 3 generations. So technically we COULD import and have LUA pups here, but we couldn't show them until the blank spots are "filled". It's just easier for everyone to only have dogs with already filled pedigrees.

AND FFYI (fun for your information!) if I capture a cup of my dog's pee and put it in the fridge, and put it next to a cup of your dogs pee in the fridge(provided it is not a Dalmatian) they will show very different things!! Cleo's pee will go cloudy/milky and most other breeds will stay clear. Some other breeds are stone formers too, but I don't think they are as widely known (eg some mini schnauzers are prone apparently)

Thank you for sharing that info, I had no idea it was such a huge issue but so glad someone is working on it for the better of the breed :)

Getting closer! :D

--Lhok

Any more news this morning Lhok? I feel like a kid at Christmas so eager to here your news.

[LisaCC]

Congratulations RRPS, I've never seen a blue standard poodle so I hope to see lots of puppy pics :)

Excited for you Lhok!!

Dotdashdot, I repeat, I want one of your future Dals :)

[dotdashdot]

Getting closer! :D

--Lhok

I am SO excited for you.

AAANNNDDD I might be a puppy pre school teacher in the near future! I'm gonna try and convince my boss that I am the one to send down to Sydney to be trained up to run our own puppy school here. It costs a bit but I'll be accredited. I know it's nothing fancy or serious, but it's quite exciting!

I think the opportunity to help educate people with their pups is exhilarating - I use my DOL accrued knowledge so much, I will love the chance to share that, and work with pups!

[Crits'N'Bits]

some very interesting reading in this thread

hope everyone with new puppies are enjoying themselves - and those still waiting - I hope the time will go quickly for you :)

Little Finn has settled in really well - he is already part of the pack. Poppy, my 8 year old JRT, has taken on a new lease of life with this pesky puppy around. She adores him. I have noticed that every day he seems more relaxed and settled and getting even more confident about things.

So many new things to learn since arriving on Saturday night - but he is taking every thing in his stride.

Here is a pic I just took of Pop and Finn - he is totally tuckered out after a big day of playing ! and of course, his choice of bed ... a box ! So much for his fancy little bed we brought for him ! lol

[cassie]

That's awesome dotdashdot! How fun getting a puppy fix every week! :)

[whippytails]

Any puppies coming home this weekend?

[Boxbright]

Any puppies coming home this weekend?

No but 2 sleeps until I get to go see two prospective boxer puppies. I was hoping the hubby would be home this weekend to keep me focused and stop me from saying yes to both but it looks like he will be away. Wonder if the kids will be able to keep me on the up and up.

[whippytails]

Any puppies coming home this weekend?

No but 2 sleeps until I get to go see two prospective boxer puppies. I was hoping the hubby would be home this weekend to keep me focused and stop me from saying yes to both but it looks like he will be away. Wonder if the kids will be able to keep me on the up and up.

Sounds exciting, are they both show quality?

[Boxbright]

Any puppies coming home this weekend?

No but 2 sleeps until I get to go see two prospective boxer puppies. I was hoping the hubby would be home this weekend to keep me focused and stop me from saying yes to both but it looks like he will be away. Wonder if the kids will be able to keep me on the up and up.

Sounds exciting, are they both show quality?

Won't know for sure until we have a look, but one is so cute I really don't think I care if it is show quality. Just something about it that really appeals to me. Plus I love its colouring

[cassie]

It's so easy to get caught up when you visit puppies! :D What baby puppy isn't cute really. If a show prospect is what you want, wait for the right one :)