Studmasters- How Do You Prefer To Mate Your Dogs?

[angelsun]

I simply don't agree with putting a bitch through multiple ties per day over a three/four day period...sure mother nature says 'have at it' but we've interfered enough that this is just one more....I've seen males mate so often they can hardly walk,,,,in fact there was a manchester in the USA used so much at stud he passed away due to massive cardiac arrest because he stopped eating, and was over exerting himself (he had at one point in time no less than 8 bitches per week over a four month period....yes EVERYONE had him in their pedigree)

I've also seen bitches so sore from mating that they clearly are having issues walking etc....mother nature be damned....besides..if I let them go at it over a week, it's harder to nail when she's really due to whelp...I like knowing things more precisely and one or two well timed matings, does just that...

Works for me and has for many years....did I mention AI's were faster??

[Bulldust]

Ive had Beagles for 34 years,

Pembroke Corgis since I was born and Maremmas for 16 years.Mum bred Pembroke Corgis for 54 years and I inherited her dogs when she died.When I married my second husband he had boxers which I helped breed for 15 or so years. I worked in a breeding kennel when I was a kid and they had foxies. Ive watched,all of them mate without human help and along the way Ive seen Australian Terriers,St Bernards,Staffies and Cattle dogs carry on without help.The only ones who bombed were Bassets and they were happy to stick it up a nose or put it in an ear but didnt have a hope of even getting the right end without help. Ooops forgot a couple of Labs too and a hand ful of cavs which I didnt own but helped out with.

Ive got a couple of Maremmas who mate in a missionary position.

:D Seriously?!!

I think my dogs would get it in eventually if let to their own devices, but i reckon by the time that happens they would be so exhausted with failed tries itd nearly be a waste of time

You can get that effect from Aloe Vera Juice too. Red meat and Aloe have arginine in it and it makes the blood vessles pump and its a natural viagra for dogs.

Mine mate twice a day - morning as the sun comes up and afternoon after red meat.Ive only ever seen one young man do the deed three times in one day but thats unusual.

Im really glad i started this thread because i didnt know that red meat & aloe were dog viagra!

I don’t think I am ever going to be the leave them to it type of person. My last visiting bitch was happy to mate but the minute he tied she freaked out and attempted to flip over onto her tummy. That would have caused some serious damage if I hadn’t been holding her. Then I also have a stud dog that will pull out before a tie if left to his own devices, he is the king of slips unless you hold him

Yes we rarely get a tie ;) my current boy who only had his second ever mating this morning cant even get his knot out my back is killing me

I am there to assist and supervise when necessary. Especially during a tie.

I care about my dogs too much to have them fight or try to make sudden exits while tied.

Have assisted in many ai's which doesnt faze me. People have artifical insemination. I dont see anything wrong with ai's.

How are Bulldogs at mating themselves?

I prefer to leave them to it but will assist if I think it necessary.

Will always stay nearby and assist in the case of young animals or if they are showing signs of any aggression towards each other.

Mind you, my latest experience of a young, virgin male was that he jumped the bitch and tied literally in the blink of an eye (hence the arrival of Bad Alice). But had I PLANNED to do the breeding, no doubt I would have had to sit there for hours and encourage him.

Wish all studs were like your young fella!! I mated an older dog once who'd never had a mating ever before, i even had to lift him onto the bitch's back for him to get anything going :D

I simply don't agree with putting a bitch through multiple ties per day over a three/four day period...sure mother nature says 'have at it' but we've interfered enough that this is just one more....I've seen males mate so often they can hardly walk,,,,in fact there was a manchester in the USA used so much at stud he passed away due to massive cardiac arrest because he stopped eating, and was over exerting himself (he had at one point in time no less than 8 bitches per week over a four month period....yes EVERYONE had him in their pedigree)

I've also seen bitches so sore from mating that they clearly are having issues walking etc....mother nature be damned....besides..if I let them go at it over a week, it's harder to nail when she's really due to whelp...I like knowing things more precisely and one or two well timed matings, does just that...

Works for me and has for many years....did I mention AI's were faster??

:D Methinks you like AI's Angelsun

[WreckitWhippet]

The dogs that we allow to run with the bitches all continue to eat, they certainly have down time. Something else that i have noticed is that these dogs also breeze through the other bitches being in season.

Not every dog is used every time a bitch is in. We have none of the screaming, fence jumping, climbing through windows, days of starvation, crate eating and the like that others complain about.

These dogs are all more than capable of getting the job done, but they are relaxed, they know when it's time and they know when the bitches go off.

[Jed]

I prefer to watch from the window.

You WATCH?

Pervert

Natural, and yeah, I watch too, but only so I know for my records

[Jed]

Angelsun

simply don't agree with putting a bitch through multiple ties per day over a three/four day period...sure mother nature says 'have at it' but we've interfered enough that this is just one more....I've seen males mate so often they can hardly walk,,,,in fact there was a manchester in the USA used so much at stud he passed away due to massive cardiac arrest because he stopped eating, and was over exerting himself (he had at one point in time no less than 8 bitches per week over a four month period....yes EVERYONE had him in their pedigree)

If the dog is used to running with the bitch, or all bitches (one at a time in season) he usually will not attempt multiple ties unless he is a ratbag, and why would you use a rat bag in a breeding program? A dog which is not used to running with them may go a bit silly at first, but once he learns that he will getr the girl, he settles down. Some of mine do run together, never had a problem, or with the dogs chasing and harrassing the birches either, but it depends on the breed and dog a lot.

I don't think using a dog over 8 bitches a week for 4 months would even go near "best practice". WTF did the stupid owners expect?

[angelsun]

If the dog is used to running with the bitch, or all bitches (one at a time in season) he usually will not attempt multiple ties unless he is a ratbag, and why would you use a rat bag in a breeding program? A dog which is not used to running with them may go a bit silly at first, but once he learns that he will getr the girl, he settles down. Some of mine do run together, never had a problem, or with the dogs chasing and harrassing the birches either, but it depends on the breed and dog a lot.

I"m not sure I would use the word ratbag in reference to a dog that is keen to breed, nor would I say that using such a dog is a detriment to a breeding program. that's a pretty wide brush in my opinion.

I have had my share of wise stud dogs that lay beside a bitch until just the right time...I"ve had my share of randy boys as well, but either way, I still will not put my bitches through what I feel are unneccessary matings because I"m stuck on 'going natural'. There is very little "natural" left in the world of purebred dogs, nor has there been since we began manipulating genes to develope breed characturistics.

Why would a person allow a male to mate so many bitches? Very simple.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Steve]

The actual fertile period of the bitch is only 2 to 3 days long and it begins 4 or 5 days after the LH surge (2 or 3 days after ovulation),and regardless of how many matings you get over what time frame the due dates [according to the dog's cycle ]are still the same as they are if you only do one or two matings or do an AI.Male sperm is viable over a slightly longer time but the sperm cant penetrate the egg until its within that 2 -3 days for the bitch.They only ovulate once.

Angelsun I dont see how allowing a pair of dogs to do what they want in the sex department is interfering - in fact I think its exactly the opposite. Male dogs cant just get it up and have sex all day and given the choice without us interfering the bitch would have multiple males each day. With one male and one bitch its no big deal. I dont think its a terrible thing for them they seem to me to be very driven to get it and it seems to be an enjoyable experience for them .It certainly shuts them up for several hours after its done.

8 bitches per week is only one and a bit a day and if the humans werent watching whether he was eating or in good nick before allowing him in with the girls you can hardly blame having sex on him having a heart attack.

My male dogs dont have continual sex for 4 months.Ive never seen a male dog which can hardly walk from having sex and none of mine have ever had a heart attack either.

Im not against AI however, it does concern me that in some breeds there have been few natural matings done for a long period of time. Natural matings fail if either of the dogs has bad hips or a bunch of other things that may not be in evidence with an AI.

One of my beagle boys about 15 years ago was having a hard time hitting the spot so I went after and AI and the vet picked up he had a deformity in his penis which would have prevented him having sex as it wouldnt be able to penetrate. She was still prepared to go ahead but I was concerned that this may be something I would breed in so he was desexed.It takes a lot of experience on the part of the person doing the AI to pick up that sort of thing.

Some breeds CANT mate naturally any more and I dont see that as a good thing. So there is a difference between an AI where the dogs could have had sex and one where its a substitute because they couldnt.

[angelsun]

The actual fertile period of the bitch is only 2 to 3 days long and it begins 4 or 5 days after the LH surge (2 or 3 days after ovulation),and regardless of how many matings you get over what time frame the due dates [according to the dog's cycle ]are still the same as they are if you only do one or two matings or do an AI.Male sperm is viable over a slightly longer time but the sperm cant penetrate the egg until its within that 2 -3 days for the bitch.They only ovulate once.

This is why I allow one to two matings and not six. Because simply there is no need to put either dog nor bitch through it. I use progesterone testing with great success whether it be natural breeding or AI's and don't waste anyones time or energy as a result.

As you have said, it does not matter how many matings you get over that time frame....therefore my simple arguement is why allow males/females free reign when it's simply not needed and can be hazardous (in my opinion)

BTW, recent studies are showing semen to be viable for 7 days post ejaculate, and bitches that will stand and accept a male 3-6 days prior to ovulation. Once again, using science elimiinates unneccessary matings and wear and tear on both male and female. Perhaps all that allow natural unaided matings to occur have been very lucky....I have seen and know of too many breeders that have run into problems, severe problems that resulted in too much cost for both pocketbook and dogs health. I'm simply not willing to take that risk, nor do I encourage others to do so as well.

it's in the same vein as allowing a bitch to whelp unsupervised..I know many that still do it claiming that the strongest will live, the mother should have the instincts etc, etc....I'm not about to do that and risk the lives of either the bitch or the pups. These are not simply dogs to me, but part of my family and I"m not willing to put their health in jeopardy by allowing 'mother nature' to run her course. I did that once, and lost a bitch with eight babies in her belly, because someone told me (in my younger years with less experience than now) that nature would sort things out...don't worry....a day later, the whole lot are dead....a situation that had I known what I know now, would never have happened, because to be blunt, Mother Nature isn't always right.

[Jed]

Angelsun, there is a difference between randy and ratbag. A ratbag chases, harrasses and annoys the bitches constantly. A young dog may be a ratbag to begin with, but after a few carefully chosen words from the bitches, he becomes randy. Mine run together most of the time. Bitches which are not to be mated are locked up when they are in season. A good stud dog watches the bitch during the first part of her season, serves her - probably every day - during her fertile period, and keep an eye on her once that is over and the season is ending.

If both are in prime health - and why would you be mating them if they were not? - a mating every day is acceptable all round and does not make them lose condition. If the bitches are not happy, I lock them away.

This system works for me with non aggressive dogs, and because the dogs are used to running togehter, and the boy knows the girl is for him, we have civilised romance.

If necessary, I help virgin dogs, and I help with first matings. The stud dogs, imho, learn better if nature and instinct are allowed to predominate, and we have no untoward behaviour. Nor do we have stud dogs barking their heads off and generally carrying on if the girl is in season, and not being mated, or in season, and going to the other dog.

I have an excellent mating percentage, and a 100% whelping percentage. The dogs are happy and content, and none of the behaviours cause problems. I do ensure though, that the dog will allow me to help if necessary, but it is rarely necessary.

[angelsun]

Angelsun, there is a difference between randy and ratbag. A ratbag chases, harrasses and annoys the bitches constantly. A young dog may be a ratbag to begin with, but after a few carefully chosen words from the bitches, he becomes randy. Mine run together most of the time. Bitches which are not to be mated are locked up when they are in season. A good stud dog watches the bitch during the first part of her season, serves her - probably every day - during her fertile period, and keep an eye on her once that is over and the season is ending.

I went looking for dictonary references for Randy versus Ratbag and found neither...glad you sorted that out for me. After breeding for thirty years, nice to be sorted on that one!

If both are in prime health - and why would you be mating them if they were not? - a mating every day is acceptable all round and does not make them lose condition. If the bitches are not happy, I lock them away.

Because as I mentioned..I progesterone to hit the ideal breeding time. In many cases, one mating is done and based on the science..that's all I need to put anyone through. It's got nothing to do with being in prime health. Just because they CAN mate everyday, doesn't mean they MUST.

This system works for me with non aggressive dogs, and because the dogs are used to running togehter, and the boy knows the girl is for him, we have civilised romance.

My dogs all ran together as well, I would have it no other way..if they can't, they aren't bred from...I don't want that sort of temperament introduced thanks.

If necessary, I help virgin dogs, and I help with first matings. The stud dogs, imho, learn better if nature and instinct are allowed to predominate, and we have no untoward behaviour. Nor do we have stud dogs barking their heads off and generally carrying on if the girl is in season, and not being mated, or in season, and going to the other dog.

I have an excellent mating percentage, and a 100% whelping percentage. The dogs are happy and content, and none of the behaviours cause problems. I do ensure though, that the dog will allow me to help if necessary, but it is rarely necessary.

As do I have happy and content dogs that have good mating experiences and my 'interferance' does not cause any problems.

Can you please explain your definition of 100% whelping percentage....I'm trying to figure out if that means every mating you have done has had pups, or you have never had any losses in your litters....? :p

[centitout]

I have had both types ,the overly horny one(he was allowed to run with the bitches to a certain point)who ate through a door to get the girl,to Bono,who was a more patient lover :p

Low libido can be a problem with this breed,i have an english book saying that mating bloodhounds is a 3 person event,1 for the bitch,1 for the stud and the other to make a pot of tea as it is so stressful!!!!

I was told once that i shouldnt use a dog with a high sex drive? Would rather that than one who cant do it by himself.

I wont use one that cant mate naturally-helping out the first time is different,i get all of mine used to being "fondled" in case i want to AI or have them collected,makes the job a lot easier.

Will never forget when we moved here,i needed to collect Bono for a semen test,and he was most comfortable at the front gate,as was the bitch,so i collected him in my boxers/tank top(early morning),only to look up to find my new neighbours looking at me like i was deranged

[fifi]

:p Oh dog I can relate Centitout !!! two bloody big dogs who decided to finally tie at the very front of the yard......politely waving & nodding to the nice neighbours as they drive past, while we hold the leads of two very obviously 'busy' wolfhounds !!

Collecting a friend's dog, when suddenly the kids from the next property up are standing looking over the fence...."whatcha doing"? is very hard to answer with a collection pouch on dog, hands in the obvious places and friend holding very excited dog and trying to sound 'casual' :p

fifi

efs

Edited January 25, 2010 by fifi

[centitout]

Have never seen the neighbours since,they sort of hide whenever they see me coming!

At least your kids never went to school and told the other kids for show and tell, what their mum had been doing in the morning.

[Bilbo Baggins]

centitout and fifi both your stories are crackers. :o

centitout love the show and tell. Teacher says and moving right along to the next child. :rofl: ;) ;)

[SpikesPuppy]

Kinda glad I don't have big boofers

We prog. tested Ziva, took her to the stud (virgin) when the vet suggested, within 15 minutes of them wandering the yard together they had tied Well, I had Ziva's long lead on and was following their wandering LOL. Held Ziva while the dog turned, just in case she tried to bolt, but all was good. 20 minute tie YAY. Left Ziva there overnight, just before bed the dogs had another decent tie. Separated overnight... next morning, tied again and once more in the afternoon, I decided to leave her one more night.... During the 'downtime' they either played or slept (visible from the stud owner's living room window and never unsupervised- if they were left alone, Ziva was in the house)!! There was no chasing or randy/ratbag behaviour from the boy. There was a 5th tie the following morning and then I picked her up.

There was no stress from either dog and apart from the first time, no human intervention.

I will say, I am SO GLAD I prog. tested her because it wasn't until quite late in her season that she was ready- if I had taken her on day 9 or even 11, it would have been too early, and there was no point in listening to the bitch because she never flagged at home (not to Caber who we 'used' to test her, or nessa or us when we scratched her rump etc), but as soon as she saw the stud dog she flagged her little heart out!! Also the due date was 100% spot on. So for progesterone testing from me

[Steve]

My youngest son told me he was never going to get married.When I asked him why not he said. "Because if thats what happens and you get stuck like that for so long being pulled around by your doodle Im not going to do it. ;) "

[WreckitWhippet]

My youngest son told me he was never going to get married.When I asked him why not he said. "Because if thats what happens and you get stuck like that for so long being pulled around by your doodle Im not going to do it. ;) "

Mine has seen a few matings but she's yet to come to that conclusion. I too was hoping it might put her off for life

[Bulldust]

My youngest son told me he was never going to get married.When I asked him why not he said. "Because if thats what happens and you get stuck like that for so long being pulled around by your doodle Im not going to do it. "

OMG

Mine have grown up seeing cows and bulls, roosters and chooks doing it, they arent fazed by the dogs doing it thank god

Edited January 29, 2010 by Bulldust