westozmike Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Hi there - I'm currently talking to a few breeders of staffies. Looking for a new family pet. I am an eperinced dog owner but very new to evaluating purebreds (and breeders ). My question is: One of the pups we are looking at has a grandad on the sire's side that is the same dog as the great-grandad on the dam's side (as listed on the registered pedigree). Is this considered acceptable? Are there any general rules for dogs with regard to this that I should be aware of? As I said I am a real novice but keen for some help/advice. PS - This forum is a goldmine I have learnt so much already - Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkeyre Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I'd consider that acceptable Line Breeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Very acceptable, not very closely related at all in the terms of dog and cat breeding. Don't get too hung up on how many relations they have in common - bad parents with genetic problems will produce bad puppies with genetic problems even if they have no ancestors in common for many many generations. Concentrate on the health temperament and soundness of the parents and their parents to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Even the Bateson report has no problems with this level of inbreeding (less than cousins, COI = 3.125%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missymoo Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 The breeding you mention would be classed as line breeding (dog name) 2:3 This meaning the dog in question is 2 lines back on one side and 3 lines back on the other. This would be considered okay but with the number of staff bloodlines around it would seem very tight. If you are intending breeding with this dog in the future you would probably not want to breed back to that same blood line. If the breeding is 2:2 or less then you are getting too tight and verging on incest breeding. goodluck with your pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) Nothing wrong with that mating. If the parents of are good type, they are sound and are of good temperament , then it gets the from me. ETA: there are some stunning examples of the breed that are much closer than that mating. A gorgeous father/daughter mating comes to mind, that cemented years of work. Edited January 16, 2010 by SBT123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) I would love to learn more about linebreeding, as I don't no much about it at all!!!!! (exactly what i posted before - I just want to learn about it all), and I've already leart so much on DOl, I feel this is the perfect place. Since learning about registered breeders and the great things they do, i've been trying to educate anoyone I talk to about them!!!!! Sometimes it's hard to understand how inbreeding is ok (and especially how the father/daughter mating was great), as I love learning new things, and this is all new to me!!! Beth Edited for spelling and changing because one sentence may have been offending which I wasn't meaning at all, so I've changed it a little Edited January 16, 2010 by Beth86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) I don't understand how inbreeding is ok??????I'm not saying it's wrong (as I don't breed, and i'm sure my girl is inbred somewhere), just would love to know more about it etc (and especially how the father/daughter mating was great???????). I look at it more scientifically..... so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding...... but not sure about dogs though....... Beth Edited for spelling What is the science for so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding? if you do a search on inbreeding you will find that the science is about the same for both sides - steve has written quite extensively on it. nb: as a budding vet, it is stomething I would want to get a clear idea about, because there will come a time when you get a clients presenting you with a linebred dog, and you don't want to assume that because its linebred it is more prone to diseases/problems :D Edited January 16, 2010 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I don't understand how inbreeding is ok??????I'm not saying it's wrong (as I don't breed, and i'm sure my girl is inbred somewhere), just would love to know more about it etc (and especially how the father/daughter mating was great???????). I look at it more scientifically..... so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding...... but not sure about dogs though....... Beth Edited for spelling What is the science for so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding? if you do a search on inbreeding you will find that the science is about the same for both sides - steve has written quite extensively on it. nb: as a budding vet, it is stomething I would want to get a clear idea about, because there will come a time when you get a clients presenting you with a linebred dog, and you don't want to assume that because its linebred it is more prone to diseases/problems Yep yep, thats why I was asking Because i'm not up with all the knowledge and I'd love to learn more so I'm a knowlable vet in the years to come :D . I just would LOVE to learn more about the purebred industry - I was just lucky that I have a good friend who told me the great things about all you registered breeders, and the great puppies you breed with so much love and knowledge you all have. I didn't mean any offence by my post, but because i've never been in the breeder aspect of it I was just curious ' The only science is with people i'm talking about (Only what people/public hear) - that was why I mentioned that I don't know anything about it with dogs is all in my first post. Trust me, i'm not critising, just trying to learn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I don't understand how inbreeding is ok??????I'm not saying it's wrong (as I don't breed, and i'm sure my girl is inbred somewhere), just would love to know more about it etc (and especially how the father/daughter mating was great???????). I look at it more scientifically..... so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding...... but not sure about dogs though....... Beth Edited for spelling What is the science for so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding? if you do a search on inbreeding you will find that the science is about the same for both sides - steve has written quite extensively on it. nb: as a budding vet, it is stomething I would want to get a clear idea about, because there will come a time when you get a clients presenting you with a linebred dog, and you don't want to assume that because its linebred it is more prone to diseases/problems Yep yep, thats why I was asking Because i'm not up with all the knowledge and I'd love to learn more so I'm a knowlable vet in the years to come :D . I just would LOVE to learn more about the purebred industry - I was just lucky that I have a good friend who told me the great things about all you registered breeders, and the great puppies you breed with so much love and knowledge you all have. I didn't mean any offence by my post, but because i've never been in the breeder aspect of it I was just curious ' The only science is with people i'm talking about (Only what people/public hear) - that was why I mentioned that I don't know anything about it with dogs is all in my first post. Trust me, i'm not critising, just trying to learn . okay well this is the tricky thing to be wary of - 'common belief' often isn't science someone more proficient at doing searches will post a link for you ... steve has written quite a bit on DOL about inbreeding and the science FOR inbreeding ... with differenct examples of where it has occured successfully in both human and animal populations - not just dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I don't understand how inbreeding is ok??????I'm not saying it's wrong (as I don't breed, and i'm sure my girl is inbred somewhere), just would love to know more about it etc (and especially how the father/daughter mating was great???????). I look at it more scientifically..... so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding...... but not sure about dogs though....... Beth Edited for spelling What is the science for so many more diseases/problems with inbreeding? if you do a search on inbreeding you will find that the science is about the same for both sides - steve has written quite extensively on it. nb: as a budding vet, it is stomething I would want to get a clear idea about, because there will come a time when you get a clients presenting you with a linebred dog, and you don't want to assume that because its linebred it is more prone to diseases/problems Yep yep, thats why I was asking Because i'm not up with all the knowledge and I'd love to learn more so I'm a knowlable vet in the years to come :D . I just would LOVE to learn more about the purebred industry - I was just lucky that I have a good friend who told me the great things about all you registered breeders, and the great puppies you breed with so much love and knowledge you all have. I didn't mean any offence by my post, but because i've never been in the breeder aspect of it I was just curious ' The only science is with people i'm talking about (Only what people/public hear) - that was why I mentioned that I don't know anything about it with dogs is all in my first post. Trust me, i'm not critising, just trying to learn . okay well this is the tricky thing to be wary of - 'common belief' often isn't science someone more proficient at doing searches will post a link for you ... steve has written quite a bit on DOL about inbreeding and the science FOR inbreeding ... with differenct examples of where it has occured successfully in both human and animal populations - not just dogs. That will be great to see some more info about the topic - then I can pass this onto my peers . Please, I hope you all know I wasn't trying to offend or critise anyone , I just love to learn, hehe!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikesPuppy Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Inbreeding seems to be more problematic in certain breeds, colors & varieties and it also depends on the degree of inbreeding/how many generations are inbred and how close they are. I have chosen to linebreed with my litter (I put my bitch's nephew over her), however the dog's sire is a complete outcross. With regard to breed type, a complete outcross can be as hazardous as inbreeding and IMO needs to be done carefully and with a clear plan for the future (Ie: constantly outcrossing will lose type and can lead to less predictable temperament and conformation etc). Personally, I would like to avoid close inbreeding (parent to child), because a)it weirds me out and b)I don't see the need for it in my breed as although rare, there are enough lines and mixtures of lines around that it is not necessarry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I am novice at pure bred dogs too. But I have to say that when I get a bitch I will be doing line breeding for my first litter. From what I have read and heard for novice breeders a line breeding is safer because you have more idea of what to expect. However the type of breeding I am looking at is like 3:4 or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Line breeding is fine if you know what you are doing or have someone behind you that knows what they are doing as your mentor. You need someone behind you that really knows those old(er) dogs and what they threw. (what the cousins, brothers/sisters threw and corresponding offspring). Research is the key in any breeding program. Problem of often is finding the information you need. Someone knowledgeable in the lines you are using is a key. There are some dogs within pedigree's you would not want to double up on, and others that are fine. In saying that, some outcrosses really work too. Some don't. The more you double up, the more chance you have of getting those dogs good traits, but at the same time, you also increase the chance of doubling up and getting those bad traits come through. So research is great. You often don't know about a problem until you have bred it yourself. Some breeders don't like to advertise or admit they have bred it themselves until the same issue comes out in someone else's litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westozmike Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks for the help and responses on this matter - I am learning so much here... cheers :thumbsup: java script:add_smilie("","smid_12") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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