Is Just Under 2 Years Of Age Too Young ..

[Guest belgian.blue]

For a bitch to be mated?

At the moment I'm working out which Tervueren breeder to go with. There is one bitch who sounds lovely but she's only a month older than Ivy, born June 2008 and they are mating her when she's in season, which is around april/may this year.

Other breeders I'm really keen on are are using bitches around 3-5 years of age.

In my eyes Ivy is still growing up and I know if she was entire I would not see her mature enough to raise puppies.

I'm leaning toward taking my name off their puppy list because of her age .. does anyone else agree with me?

[Parkeyre]

teh bitch will be an adult dog at that age, and capable of rearing a litter of pups.

Ivy may not have been raised the same way as the bitch to be bred.

They could be VERY different. I don't think there's anything wrong with two years.

[WreckitWhippet]

Providing there are no mandatory tests required before litters can be registered and the bitch is in excellent condition, I see no reason why not. Surely the breeder would have carefully considered the decision to mate her and feels that she has reached adequate maturity.

[MolassesLass]

In my eyes Ivy is still growing up and I know if she was entire I would not see her mature enough to raise puppies.

I'm leaning toward taking my name off their puppy list because of her age .. does anyone else agree with me?

In the wild she'd could very well raise a litter on her first season, at under 12 months of age (and there's certainly many unregistered bitches who do in homes as well). Having puppies tends to make the bitch mature mentally and even physically. Being desexed and having no hormones tends to make dogs act puppyish their whole lives.

I'd prefer a bitch to have her first litter between 18 - 24 months and so I wouldn't have a problem with a pup from a bitch this age.

Edited January 15, 2010 by molasseslass

[alpha bet]

To mate the bitch just under 2 years is usually fine. Remember too there are two months before the pups are born and the girl grows up even more over those two months.

If the bitch being mated has good size and health do not be put off by the fact that she is under 2.

[Mystiqview]

As long as the bitch meets the health and mating requirments with the ANKC and is of good standard, there is nothing wrong with mating a bitch that old. The 3-5 year old bitches may already have had one litter (Your post does not specify if that is the case).

Some breeds the minimum age is 12 months, other breeds it is older. That is ANKC rules. I do not know the minimum age for Tervueren as set by the ANKC. If she passes their scoring as set by the Shepherd clubs then again there is not problems in my eyes.

You can have two pups from one litter raised in breed homes. Like humans, some individuals mature more quickly than others.

When you think about it, even humans can physically reproduce as young as 13 (and some do). The body is telling the individual it is ready. It is morals and ethics why humans do not reproduce that early. Back in the dim dark years past, it was not uncommon for a human female to start raising a family in her teens. Life expectancy back then is also not what it is today in humans.

[Guest belgian.blue]

Thanks for the replies!

OK so her age is fine, great news as I really like the breeders and the bitch

This is the first time I'm finding a breeder so far in advance of the mating.

[Mystiqview]

Just make sure you see ORIGINALS of what ever health tests are claimed. I do not know your breeder or anything, but in the past there have been some who have done the wrong thing and altered health tests to suit their claims. This fortunately is in the minority, but with the age of computers is not impossible.

[Guest belgian.blue]

Just make sure you see ORIGINALS of what ever health tests are claimed. I do not know your breeder or anything, but in the past there have been some who have done the wrong thing and altered health tests to suit their claims. This fortunately is in the minority, but with the age of computers is not impossible.

Thanks, she's having the hip/elbow/eye tests done later this month .. as stated by the breeder and will show me the results.

I've heard some stories already about breeders altering health papers as Belgians are known to have Epilepsy .. so they alter papers to show them as seizure free .. when they actually aren't.

So it's making my search a little more diffucult But lots of fun!!

[Mystiqview]

Just make sure you see ORIGINALS of what ever health tests are claimed. I do not know your breeder or anything, but in the past there have been some who have done the wrong thing and altered health tests to suit their claims. This fortunately is in the minority, but with the age of computers is not impossible.

Thanks, she's having the hip/elbow/eye tests done later this month .. as stated by the breeder and will show me the results.

I've heard some stories already about breeders altering health papers as Belgians are known to have Epilepsy .. so they alter papers to show them as seizure free .. when they actually aren't.

So it's making my search a little more diffucult But lots of fun!!

It does pay to be thorough in your research. Unfortunately even then, some can be caught out. Best of luck for you. If you do choose on one breeder and manage to get a pup from there, please don't forget to let the other breeders where your name is on you have found a pup. The good ones should thank you for the courtesy of letting them know.

[Guest belgian.blue]

Just make sure you see ORIGINALS of what ever health tests are claimed. I do not know your breeder or anything, but in the past there have been some who have done the wrong thing and altered health tests to suit their claims. This fortunately is in the minority, but with the age of computers is not impossible.

Thanks, she's having the hip/elbow/eye tests done later this month .. as stated by the breeder and will show me the results.

I've heard some stories already about breeders altering health papers as Belgians are known to have Epilepsy .. so they alter papers to show them as seizure free .. when they actually aren't.

So it's making my search a little more diffucult But lots of fun!!

It does pay to be thorough in your research. Unfortunately even then, some can be caught out. Best of luck for you. If you do choose on one breeder and manage to get a pup from there, please don't forget to let the other breeders where your name is on you have found a pup. The good ones should thank you for the courtesy of letting them know.

Most defiantly won't fail to let the others know! Can't stand it myself when people fail to let me know of their change of plans .. Though who does?

[Loraine]

Are you thinking of getting a friend for Ivy or are you looking at finding a good stud boy for her? If you are going to breed I believe you will need to become a member of the appropriate Kennel club/organisation and think up a cool name for your litter

[~Shepherd~]

Are you thinking of getting a friend for Ivy or are you looking at finding a good stud boy for her? If you are going to breed I believe you will need to become a member of the appropriate Kennel club/organisation and think up a cool name for your litter

Ivy is desexed Loraine, BB is getting another Belgian.

I think you should give Maria a call, she will answer all your questions BB, she has been breeding Belgians for a good length of time now and knows about all the epilepsy testing and the dogs people are producing. She is Ivys breeder after all

[Guest belgian.blue]

Are you thinking of getting a friend for Ivy or are you looking at finding a good stud boy for her? If you are going to breed I believe you will need to become a member of the appropriate Kennel club/organisation and think up a cool name for your litter

Ivy is desexed Loraine, BB is getting another Belgian.

I think you should give Maria a call, she will answer all your questions BB, she has been breeding Belgians for a good length of time now and knows about all the epilepsy testing and the dogs people are producing. She is Ivys breeder after all

One step ahead, been consulting with Midniara for awhile now, in regards to my search

[myzchev]

[Thanks, she's having the hip/elbow/eye tests done later this month .. as stated by the breeder and will show me the results.

I've heard some stories already about breeders altering health papers as Belgians are known to have Epilepsy .. so they alter papers to show them as seizure free .. when they actually aren't.

So it's making my search a little more diffucult But lots of fun!!

You can't change papers to show a dog is seizure free as there are no DNA tests to record a Belgian being seizure free. Breeders/owners would just tell lies about it. If a BSD is going to manifest epilepsy it will generally happen by 4 years of age. If a bitch is from known epilepsy lines, it would be recommended she not be bred from under the age of 4

Cindy

[~Midniara~]

I've heard some stories already about breeders altering health papers as Belgians are known to have Epilepsy .. so they alter papers to show them as seizure free .. when they actually aren't.

There are no genetic tests available for epilepsy so papers can't be altered as there are no papers for this as yet. At the moment there are tests being develeoped to test Belgians for this but it is not a test that is available at the moment. The health papers you should be receiving are like the papers I gave you when you got Ivy. Hip/elbow scores of both parents as well as current eye certification (no more than 12 months old at the time of mating) from a qualified opthamologist.

Most (not all) Belgian breeders wait for their bitches to be 4-5 years old to ensure that they are seizure free when they are mated as there is epilepsy present in most Belgian lines. Some will use bitches that are younger if they are fairly sure that epilepsy is removed from their lines for at least a few generations. This may be the reason why this particular bitch is being mated at the age that she is. Perhaps you could ask this breeder? He/she could shed some light on their reasons and then you can make a decision based on the answer you get from them. Most breeders are perfectly happy to answer these questions.

Edited January 18, 2010 by ~Midniara~