Vet Education

[Beth.]

Vets SUCK....and I mean SUCK.....did I forget to mention that vets SUUCKKK?!!!

No amount of education will educate these so called animal lovers.....all they care about is money! As long as they have dogs with problems, whos owners are happy to pay 1000's to have them fixed then they are as happy as a pig in mud!

Just mention the word VET to me and I shudder!

That is a really full on comment, and quite hurtful - I'm studying to become a Vet, and to see people write that and to know that if you're doing vet you're NOT doing it for money (because in alot of circumstances the pay is SHIT!!!! - just have a look at the award rates)!!!! I'm studying Vet because animals are the one thing I love passionatly!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe you put us all in the same catagory, it's very shallow minded I'm from a small town where vaccinating dogs isn't even a known thing, so how do yhou expect that people won't just breed because they can.... My hope for my future career is to go back out into the 'bush' educating and helping people make right decisions about responsible pet ownership etc, and i can GARANTEE you I'm not doing it for money, because if I was i'd be very sorely dissapointed.....

Yes what the vet said is VERY sad!!!! I hope one day when I'm graduated you might be able to come to me and see what a good vet will be?? Maybe....

[dianed]

Beth86, good on you for wanting to go back to the bush, I hope you do. We recently had a young male vet working at out local clinic, he came out to preg test 50 heifers (and yes his arm was sore afterward). He was from a farming background and was happy to deal with large animals. He told us only 2 who graduated in his class wanted to be country vets. The majority where females and they all planned on being city vets dealing with small animals. He commented that is where the money is.

Edited January 16, 2010 by dianed

[Beth.]

Beth86, good on you for wanting to go back to the bush, I hope you do. We recently had a young male vet working at out local clinic, he came out to preg test 50 heifers (and yes his arm was sore afterward). He was from a farming background and was happy to deal with large animals. He told us only 2 who graduated in his class to be country vets. The majority where females and they all planned on being city vets dealing with small animals. He commented that is where the money is.

Thank you Yep thats very true.... But the country is where my heart is, I can't wait to get back out there working on properties etc (and hopefully owning my own land one day, but that'll be a long way off!!!). I can't wait until i'm graduated, and hopefully I might be one vet who changes the views of one person and make a difference.... we can but dream....

[Natsu chan]

There are good vets and bad like in any industry. Personally I think attitude makes all the difference, if you finish your eduction convinced that you now know everything you are condemning yourself to mediocrity. An open mind, a willingness to learn and respect for others and the knowledge they have is what makes people good at what they do. Uni though it is of course vital is only part of being a good vet or doctor or scientist or anything else. We only stop learning when we close our minds. That's how I see it at any rate, and good vets who love animals are like diamond dust and should be valued accordingly.

Why any vet would think it was okay to breed unhealthy pups, knowingly especially with all the screaming going on of late is beyond me.

[WoofnHoof]

I think this is very valid point. I work in agriculture, and have seen many vet students come and go whist doing their compulsory prac time. 80% of them have no interest in farm animals and no intention of working with them once they graduate. Perhaps allowing vet students to specialize a little more after they've done the basic stuff (eg from 3rd year on), would allow students that were specializing in pets to study in these areas in more depth than they do currently. Trying to include all animals gives a massively wide field to cover, and therefore some areas are not well covered. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. However, this is really off topic.

When changes in laws occur, the govt should make some effort to advise affected groups. They usually do, but the effort may be pretty minimal. It is often left up to interest groups and professional associations to get the word out. These groups often do a pretty good job, but often don't reach all individuals due to any number of reasons: too busy/ don't get professional journals/ too expensive to attend conferences etc etc. Probably the only solution is to make some kind of "professional development / updating" a compulsory condition of continuing registration with licensing boards. And then include the law changes in the topics covered. This kind of thing already exists in loads of professions eg doctors, workplace training assessors etc etc.

Yep I've also heard that there is shortage of large animal vets it's a real shame and seperating the two areas would be a good step forward in addressing this shortage, personally I would love to become a large animal vet but I can see why it's less desirable it can be very dangerous, more travelling etc. It's funny I did a postgrad animal welfare course a while back and I was told that it is only recently that welfare and ethics has actually been introduced into the vet courses (there were several vets doing the course I was doing) so I found that really interesting.

[Danois]

The 'old school' vets have so many skills - they are the GP, the radiologist, orthopaedic specialist, surgeon, anaesthetist, dermatologist, endocrinologist, cardiologist and pharmacist etc!

I recently experienced the difference between the old school and the new generation of vets as my usual vet (who I drive over 40mins to when I have 3 vets within 5 mins of me) was in the process of opening his own clinic and was not open. Instead I went to the Uni Vet.

Had one sick cat - young grad did an exam and history and then went and went and consulted with a not as fresh grad but still young. Their diagnosis was - could be a number of things. We did urine tests, blood tests and faecal samples and still nothing meanwhile scaring me with suggestions of what it could be. Was given antibiotics and told he'll need imaging etc. Cat was still being sick. Saw another grad who was a bit more practical and gave him an anti-emetic. Worked perfectly. Diagnosis was upset stomach. Total vet bill around $500.

My usual vet would have approached it the reverse order - treat the obvious symptoms and if not resolve then investigate. Approximate cost $100.

[BJean]

Yep I've also heard that there is shortage of large animal vets it's a real shame and seperating the two areas would be a good step forward in addressing this shortage, personally I would love to become a large animal vet but I can see why it's less desirable it can be very dangerous, more travelling etc. It's funny I did a postgrad animal welfare course a while back and I was told that it is only recently that welfare and ethics has actually been introduced into the vet courses (there were several vets doing the course I was doing) so I found that really interesting.

Yes that's true - when I first looked into veterinary science about 15/16 years ago there was not so much animal welfare component

now reentering, I have noticed that the courses have totally reorganised their focus/course content.

I think there is a shortage of large animal vets because there is a shortage of graduating vets with a background in or a familiarity with animals.

Admittedly I'm an animal snob but

if there's one thing I cant stand, it's vets that are awkward around large dogs and horses.

Edited January 16, 2010 by lilli

[Loving my Oldies]

The 'old school' vets have so many skills - they are the GP, the radiologist, orthopaedic specialist, surgeon, anaesthetist, dermatologist, endocrinologist, cardiologist and pharmacist etc!

Never a truer word . . . . . In fact I find it quite scary to see the difference between the older vets and the younger ones. I know they have to gain experience, but some of the younger ones seem to have very few skills. They may be brilliant on paper, but it is in the clinic/hospital where we need the expertise.

[Danois]

The 'old school' vets have so many skills - they are the GP, the radiologist, orthopaedic specialist, surgeon, anaesthetist, dermatologist, endocrinologist, cardiologist and pharmacist etc!

Never a truer word . . . . . In fact I find it quite scary to see the difference between the older vets and the younger ones. I know they have to gain experience, but some of the younger ones seem to have very few skills. They may be brilliant on paper, but it is in the clinic/hospital where we need the expertise.

And this is why I do not understand complaints about vet charges to an extent - we would not expect our GP to do all of those things.

[Beth.]

The 'old school' vets have so many skills - they are the GP, the radiologist, orthopaedic specialist, surgeon, anaesthetist, dermatologist, endocrinologist, cardiologist and pharmacist etc!

Never a truer word . . . . . In fact I find it quite scary to see the difference between the older vets and the younger ones. I know they have to gain experience, but some of the younger ones seem to have very few skills. They may be brilliant on paper, but it is in the clinic/hospital where we need the expertise.

And this is why I do not understand complaints about vet charges to an extent - we would not expect our GP to do all of those things.

And what are the 'new school' vets learning????!!!! Are you studying Vet science at the moment????? This is really upsetting all this.... sigh....

So far I have been taught (WHILST STUDYING VETERINARY SCIENCE) Radiology, endocrinology, cardiology (Plus alot more but not on that list that you've mentioned) and have done a semester in parmacology and i'm not done yet - i can tell you exatctly when we're focusing on all the above if you'd like to ask...... still have heaps to learn before I graduate, plus everything i'll learn whilst out there in the work force. And i'm going to be a 'New school' vet as I haven't finished yet. I also Work at an emergency centre learning things everyday, and I LOVE learning, and I can garantee I can't wait until I graduate!!! I love working with both people and animals, and that is something very important..... And how can you even CONISIDER comparing an 'older' vet with a 'younger' vet, that is REDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do you not think the older vet has been maybe working for the last 20 years with that experience under their belt????????????????

I'm sorry for being so uptight about this, but all these comments are so offending for us who are currently studying Veterinary Science and you're all putting us in such a horrible sterotype that it really isn't fair.

[Loving my Oldies]

The 'old school' vets have so many skills - they are the GP, the radiologist, orthopaedic specialist, surgeon, anaesthetist, dermatologist, endocrinologist, cardiologist and pharmacist etc!

Never a truer word . . . . . In fact I find it quite scary to see the difference between the older vets and the younger ones. I know they have to gain experience, but some of the younger ones seem to have very few skills. They may be brilliant on paper, but it is in the clinic/hospital where we need the expertise.

And this is why I do not understand complaints about vet charges to an extent - we would not expect our GP to do all of those things.

My vet has a chart in one of the consulting rooms setting out all the specialist categories that a vet does: there are 37.

And, yes, complaints about the charges p*** me off too.

[Danois]

I am sorry you are offended Beth86 and perhaps you will be an exception to what I have experienced but there has been a world of difference between the way in which my vet operates compared to the other 6 or 7 vets I have had consultations with.

It goes with any education/ profession - just because someone has studied something does not mean they can put it into practice. I have seen it numerous times in my field.

[Kustali]

It would be good for vets to learn what breeds of dogs there are and what indavidual diseases they are prone to.

Like the original post says....X dog was bred to X dog, eye problems have arisen in the pups, now if the vet were educated about what breeds are prone to what they would probably know where and what to look for? and what course of action to take.

We are in the country, our vets here are not reproduction specialists, so it makes things really hard! But they just don't get the experience that the vets in the city have, so i can't blame them for the position that they're in.

We have purebred dogs, mutts come from purebred dogs, vets need to be educated on the breeds.

[Beth.]

I am sorry you are offended Beth86 and perhaps you will be an exception to what I have experienced but there has been a world of difference between the way in which my vet operates compared to the other 6 or 7 vets I have had consultations with.

It goes with any education/ profession - just because someone has studied something does not mean they can put it into practice. I have seen it numerous times in my field.

I agree with that, but I just get offened when so many people are against vets, and especially 'younger' vets, it's such a sterotype.... It's going to be hard enough to gain the trust of people to hand over their animals (as in put their lives in our hands), without such negative thoughts!!! And I fully understand, I have found my ONE vet and only vet that I will take my puppy or any of my parents animals to because she's an AWESOME vet, treats us with respect and listens to us (and yes this was before I was studying) - also won't charge us very mush as she very much does it out of love for animals!!!! But oh well, I spose I know exactly what vet i'm going to be.

I am not from a wealthy family, I studied SOOOOOOOOOO hard during my first year at uni to even become accepted into Vet Science, and I feel soooooo privelged EVERY SINGLE DAY to be studying vet as it's the ONLY thing in my life i've ever wanted to become..... I am very passionate about it and it's sad that not everyone is, but as you've already pointed out, this happens in EVERY profession. But hey, you can't change someones mind just from what's typed here.....

ETS - just thought i'd add - I recieved an OP of 11 (Which you need a 1 for vet science) and that was because during my year 11 my future adviser told me to give up, I WOULD NEVER GET INTO VET!!!!! - in which I did..... I wish I knew who he was to prove him how wrong he was, and that because of that I bumed around for 2 years trying to figre out what else was calling me....

Edited January 16, 2010 by Beth86

[Flick_Mac]

I'm going to weigh in as another vet student (3rd year this year) - going to the same school as Beth and agree whole heartedly with those fighting for the vets, in particular new graduates. I don't think 'new school' vets learn any less than 'old school' vets. As Beth says - old schoolers have a good 20 years experience on us and in no way do we learn fewer skills than they did. If anything, I'd say we learn about more species than they did (exotics, aquatics, and birds being more important/popular than in the past), and probably about more diseases than they did purely based on the research and knowledge we have these days.

For whoever asked about reproduction (sorry I can't remember who it was) we learn the specifics about the various species (dog, cat, horse, sheep, cow, camel, bird, fish, amphibian) with a focus on mammals (obvious reasons) but not breed specifics.

For those that want us to learn specifics about dog breeds - I think it would be far more appropriate to go away and research if/when an animal is booked in for an appointment than to try and cram such specific information into an already full course load. Having said that, for the little pathology/pathophysiology I've done so far we do learn about the mechanics of the disease and breed susceptibilities are mentioned e.g. CKCS being prone to MVD.

I think people need to give vets and new graduates more credit than they are - the majority of us are highly passionate about animals, most haven't been accepted straight from school, and have worked hard in other courses to get in, and very few of us are in it for the money (we were in fact warned not to be within the first week of starting uni)

[Beth.]

I'm going to weigh in as another vet student (3rd year this year) - going to the same school as Beth and agree whole heartedly with those fighting for the vets, in particular new graduates. I don't think 'new school' vets learn any less than 'old school' vets. As Beth says - old schoolers have a good 20 years experience on us and in no way do we learn fewer skills than they did. If anything, I'd say we learn about more species than they did (exotics, aquatics, and birds being more important/popular than in the past), and probably about more diseases than they did purely based on the research and knowledge we have these days.

For whoever asked about reproduction (sorry I can't remember who it was) we learn the specifics about the various species (dog, cat, horse, sheep, cow, camel, bird, fish, amphibian) with a focus on mammals (obvious reasons) but not breed specifics.

For those that want us to learn specifics about dog breeds - I think it would be far more appropriate to go away and research if/when an animal is booked in for an appointment than to try and cram such specific information into an already full course load. Having said that, for the little pathology/pathophysiology I've done so far we do learn about the mechanics of the disease and breed susceptibilities are mentioned e.g. CKCS being prone to MVD.

I think people need to give vets and new graduates more credit than they are - the majority of us are highly passionate about animals, most haven't been accepted straight from school, and have worked hard in other courses to get in, and very few of us are in it for the money (we were in fact warned not to be within the first week of starting uni)

:D yep that's alot of what I wanted to say!!!! Thanks Flic_Mac!!!

And can you see, we are both owners of purebreds who ARE prone to problems etc so know about them, but alot of that is because we LOVE dogs and are interested so yes, we probably research these problems more then some other students, but it's unfair to say that those students, just because they don't do out and research every breed are not good vets....

[Jumabaar]

When I graduate I expect that I will bumble along not knowing EVERYTHING for a few years. I started as in agriculture first so at least have animal handling skills but with what I know now and what I think I can learn in the next three years..... well is it no wonder that as a new grad that I will have to follow how we are taught to treat an animal along the outline that we are given at uni? There are a fair few grads that go directly from school to uni and are just gaining life experience by the time they hit the workforce. I just hope that when my peers and I graduate that someone is willing to give us a go since we will be the future of the profession......

I agree that you cant compare the 'new' vet to an 'old' vet. There are some new grads that are very practical and will slip right into treating animals, others will struggle for a while be it because they think they know everything (which is what we are taught to portray so that ppl will take us seriously). On the other hand there are older vets who have their head stuck in the sand and dont want to evolve with the new information and others have a wealth on knowledge and have kept up to date. Also all those old vets started off not knowing everything at some point and had to build from there to what you see today.

I am the first person to admit that I am fussy about my vet- at the moment I dont even have one because mine went overseas (I am hoping dearly she comes back at the end of the year) because I have tried the local ones and am not happy. I pay more for a consult but feel that I get better value to go to my choice clinic (as well as travel about an hour to get there and I live in Sydney so have plenty of choice). In saying that I also have a different vet if it a sports related injury or if it a query about breeding. I defiantly see vets specialising in the future. Mixed practise is almost a thing of the past. There are vets specialising solely in orthopaedic surgery of the knee, elbow and hip in dogs- and if one of my dogs ever needs knee surgery I know who I am going too. I dont really have a problem with someone aiming to go into small animal practise not being comfortable around a cow. I DO have a problem with someone wanting small animal vet being scared of dogs!!

Hello fellow vet students!! Glad to see there are a few of us on here- hope you are enjoying your studies.

ETA

yep that's alot of what I wanted to say!!!! Thanks Flic_Mac!!!

And can you see, we are both owners of purebreds who ARE prone to problems etc so know about them, but alot of that is because we LOVE dogs and are interested so yes, we probably research these problems more then some other students, but it's unfair to say that those students, just because they don't do out and research every breed are not good vets....

Agree COMPLETELY!!

Edited January 16, 2010 by woofenpup

[Mags]

Do agree with the comments made about learning a little more about breeds as I am aware of several issues that are breed related with cats that caused me significant concern. A young ragdoll having her food severely restricted on veterinary advise because she was fat - this decision was based on her having a fatty pad on her abdomen. The fatty pad is a breed characteristic not an indication of being overweight in this breed, there was also discussion about her weighing far too much when she was in fact within breed range for her age and boning. A British shorthair owner being told to diet their cat until he had a nice long neck visable - again a major issue as this cat was not overweight and a nice example of his breed which do not have "nice long necks". And something we all got a laugh out of but potentially not a good situation for pet owners or their cat when a vet thought a healthy Devon Rex kitten had some horrid disease because of how it looked. No one can expect a vet to know everything about every breed of companion animal but they could take a little time to familiarise themselves with these breeds when they belong to their clients.

[Beth.]

When I graduate I expect that I will bumble along not knowing EVERYTHING for a few years. I started as in agriculture first so at least have animal handling skills but with what I know now and what I think I can learn in the next three years..... well is it no wonder that as a new grad that I will have to follow how we are taught to treat an animal along the outline that we are given at uni? There are a fair few grads that go directly from school to uni and are just gaining life experience by the time they hit the workforce. I just hope that when my peers and I graduate that someone is willing to give us a go since we will be the future of the profession......

I agree that you cant compare the 'new' vet to an 'old' vet. There are some new grads that are very practical and will slip right into treating animals, others will struggle for a while be it because they think they know everything (which is what we are taught to portray so that ppl will take us seriously). On the other hand there are older vets who have their head stuck in the sand and dont want to evolve with the new information and others have a wealth on knowledge and have kept up to date. Also all those old vets started off not knowing everything at some point and had to build from there to what you see today.

I am the first person to admit that I am fussy about my vet- at the moment I dont even have one because mine went overseas (I am hoping dearly she comes back at the end of the year) because I have tried the local ones and am not happy. I pay more for a consult but feel that I get better value to go to my choice clinic (as well as travel about an hour to get there and I live in Sydney so have plenty of choice). In saying that I also have a different vet if it a sports related injury or if it a query about breeding. I defiantly see vets specialising in the future. Mixed practise is almost a thing of the past. There are vets specialising solely in orthopaedic surgery of the knee, elbow and hip in dogs- and if one of my dogs ever needs knee surgery I know who I am going too. I dont really have a problem with someone aiming to go into small animal practise not being comfortable around a cow. I DO have a problem with someone wanting small animal vet being scared of dogs!!

Hello fellow vet students!! Glad to see there are a few of us on here- hope you are enjoying your studies.

ETA

yep that's alot of what I wanted to say!!!! Thanks Flic_Mac!!!

And can you see, we are both owners of purebreds who ARE prone to problems etc so know about them, but alot of that is because we LOVE dogs and are interested so yes, we probably research these problems more then some other students, but it's unfair to say that those students, just because they don't do out and research every breed are not good vets....

Agree COMPLETELY!!

Hi Woofenpup...

I suspect you're studying in Sydney (from your above post is all), but here in Brisbane, out of our 130 student class, there is MAYBE 15 straight out of school if that - the rest have done previous university study - I have done Vet Tech out in Gatton, along with quite a number of my class mates, and alot of the rest have done science degrees, animal studies etc etc etc!!! On average (and this is just guessing as I was year rep of our year last year) the age between 21-25 was the average age of students....

[Jumabaar]

Yep I am in sydney and why am I studying down here!!!! I think it is about 50/50 straight from school and those who have already done previous study and I think it makes a HUGE difference in their ability to cope. At least that is what I have seen in the past two years with school leavers definatly having the brain power to cope easily with the academic work, but with many of the older students having a wider experience base with animal handling.

But I am guessing the cohorts would also have a large difference in more than just age- That would be another interesting aspect to consider..... Not that one uni 'teaches' better but that they attracct a different group of people and thus will produce different attributes in their graduates. Sydney wasnt my first choice but when it came down to it location was more negotiable than my final career choice....

Edited January 16, 2010 by woofenpup