Things My Breeder Should Have Told Me About Vets !

[Fordogs]

OK, so I have just come through a BAD WEEK, even though I feel like having a huge rant that is not the reason for this topic Twice this week I have had to deal with puppy owners and vets who have either have no knowledge of the breed or only see them as possibly helping to make their January bank balance healthy. I am at least thankful that one did contact me after her initial vet consultation and I managed to send her to a GOOD vet in her area and of course the puppy is a very healthy, happy individual.

The other sadly did not contact me prior to having her not quite 5 month old female desexed and hip x-rayed (which of course were completely normal) so now the vet is running up blood work on Toxoplasmosis, Neosporum Caninum and then they are going to do testing for Osteochondroma.

How can I help these people that don't or won't listen when I recommend them to Good vets in their area?

For me number 1 ------- is I tell them to contact me first before allowing any vet to do anything invasive to their puppy, ( unless it is life threatening) --------- BUT as you see they don't always listen..

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I think the difficulty is that a vet (any vet) has a great deal of credibility to someone who has very little experience. The idea of "not allowing" a vet to perform a procedure is pretty foreign to your average pet owner. Most people just take the advice as they have no contextual knowledge to ask questions.

Breeders who attack the vet's credibility head-on can lose credibility themselves - until about 3 or 4 years later when the puppy owner wakes up and realises they have been seriously over-serviced and over-diagnosed. I say this from the point of view of someone who was that puppy owner once. Sometimes you just have to wait it out until the penny finally drops.

In the meantime I think you can only encourage puppy owners to see a vet with experience in your breed and make sure the sale contract states that if a diagnosis is made of a condition that will require ongoing treatment that they will attend a vet of your choice for a second opinion.

[Bisart Dobes]

I always sit down with our puppy people and talk to them about the diseases within our breed. I go through the DNA profile and disease report on their dog with them so they know what has already been tested for and where they stand.

I also give them the contact details for 'good vets' in their areas - if I don't know any in their area then I ask other breeders to recommend for me and then add that to my list which is included within our puppy booklet so that they always have it. On each puppy persons "first month with my puppy" sheet I again put the contact details for the specific vets in their area so that they have it at hand.

Beyond that - not sure what else I can do .

[Sandra777]

Hmm, yes :p

I am currently talking to someone who wants to breed from a bitch I bred. I support what they are doing, have suggested a stud dog and made sure all their little birdies are in a row. I wrote a great long email detailing how the bitch should be fed during pregnancy (giving options of raw/commercial/mix) emphasising over and over and over about how they must not give her calcium supplements.

They discussed this with their vet and came away with a bottle of calcium sandoz because bitches need calcium supplementation AND commercial puppy food when pregnant.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Sandra777

[sandgrubber]

My first litter: incident. Pup threw up. People took pup to vet and rang up $100 vet fees for exams etc. Turns out it was carsickness. I hadn't yet learned not to feed pups for a few hours before they went to new homes.

Since then I've given puppy buyers as many tips as I can about vets in their area, and recommended several times that if they think anything is wrong, to notify me before they go to the vet. If there is a specific reason for caution, eg, I've had a few pups with overshot jaws, and a few litters that were likely to develop KC given high incidence in our area. I give them a written description of the problem and, for bad bites, a guarantee that I'll pay the cost of surgical procedures in the unlikely case that they are necessary . . . but ONLY if they notify me and give me the option of choosing the vet, or getting a second opinion from a vet I respect. With KC I let them know that it's like a baby with a viral infection . . . in most cases will pass without treatment but meds may soothe symptoms, antibiotics not likely to be effective, vet care needed if energy level drops or temperature rises. I generally go for the free 6 wk insurance from Pet Plan . . . which ensures that severe KC treatment costs won't become an issue.

[WreckitWhippet]

:p

Then there's sending your puppies to their new homes, after raising them with love and care and vaccinating at 8 weeks or older, only to have them taken to the vet for their next puppy shot , who declares they need a C 7 and a proheart slow release injection. Then insist that the pup needs a third vaccination, just to be sure .

What do you do ?

[oakeydoak1]

People need to get second opinions too - we do for us before we have invasive stuff done - i dont understandd why people dont get it for the dogs (and less it is lifethreatening at that moment of course!)

[Fordogs]

My puppies always leave with a folder that contains full health testing on parents and grandparents & photos, 5 generation pedigree, possible health problems that can occur within the breed.

a booklet written just for my breed,

training help, phone and email of their nearest breed and training club,

And all of the usual info.

Even though you talk to them both prior to the day of the puppy leaving and then on the day of pick up they neither listen or read the information pack.

[SwaY]

I told mine vets know dogs, they don`t know each breed of dog nor the lines they come from.

I also told them im not anti vet, just anti vet who pushes things on new puppy buyers.

[SparkyTansy]

Ihaven't bred a litter yet but a common theme with vets in my breed is apparently that if they can't diagnose something, they will blame it on an immunity issue, because that is common in Weims...

Bisart Dobes I really like that idea of gathering information on recommended vets in various areas. I will keep it in mind!

[SpikesPuppy]

I rang up our vet to make an appointment for Ziva as she had conjunctivitis, this was the vet I could get to via public transport (as I don't drive). She was a month 'overdue' for her vaccination (after already having had her booster.. and the last vacc. I'm giving her at least for 3 years), and they called me out on this (over the phone) and wanted me to get her vaccinated at the same appt. I (lied because I knew they wouldn't shut up) told them she'd been done at a different vet (which, if I were getting her done I wouldn've gone to anyway- about half the price and our old vet who we've used for 10 years), so they wanted me to bring in the Vacc. certificate as proof so they could update their records I cancelled the eye appointment and informed them that we had moved permanently to another clinic (which is true anyway). Ended up going to our 'old' vet, a 20 minute train journey but it was worth it- Ziva enjoyed the ride

Also they forced mum into getting Ness her 3rd vaccine (long story that one...) and wont stop sending out desexing reminders... people, we are registered breeders and they are SHOW DOGS

Some vets are ridiculous and I;m still umming and ahhing over what I will tell my puppy buyers... I have already advised people to wait until the dog is physically mature before desexing (as I want most of my limited reg. pups desexed), and not to fall for the early desexing crap. I am also a little worried what some vets will make of CECS- ie: I don't want it to be misdiagnosed in a non-affected puppy, nor do I want it misdiagnosed in an affected puppy (god forbid there is one). As for vaccines... I will be explaining why I don't do the yearly heartworm vaccine or yearly booster vaccines and only c3 when it is done. At the end of the day though, people buying the pups are adults and the dogs are theres to do with as they wish.....

Edited January 14, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Ashanali]

and wont stop sending out desexing reminders... people, we are registered breeders and they are SHOW DOGS

Conversation from when I was forced to go to a vet I don't usually go to (public holiday).

"Is she desexed"

"She's a show dog and my brood bitch"

"So is she desexed?"

Hmm... so what part of 'brood bitch' didn't they understand?

[*Lolapalooza*]

My sisters stafford ran into my 10 week old berner whilst doing the zoomies. He was a bit lame (got a corky I think ) I paniced and took him to the after hours Vet.

The stupid man wiggled his leg around and told me he could hear crunching and my puppy was obviously dysplastic....................I was inconsolable...........until I went to my vet the next day who had a wiggle and said.....'there's nothing wrong with this dog' (he later scored 0:0 on hip scores)

First vet is a dog breeder. Everytime i see him at a show I am so tempted to tell him he was SO WRONG.

(I have also had a vet tell me he thought one of my dogs had kidney failure because her specific gravity was low normal.........big sigh....next test fine of course)

Mostly my vets are stars but puppy people sure are extra ripe for the picking sometimes

[Steve]

I nag and give examples and beg them to please come back to me before they race off to the vet especially if they are first time dog owners who are just ripe for being bled dry. Some of the things that they have done to puppy buyers over the years is pretty crook.

One of my sons did work experience once with a local vet and they had been called out to a property to examine a horse. It had been raining.

On the way the vet told my son that because it was muddy, if they wore gum boots and if the horse was standing in mud that they could make much more money because the owner wouldnt want to supervise the examination because she would get her pretty shoes muddy.

she was charged for a bunch of things - meds and ointment applications which never happened and he laughed about it on the way back to the surgery!

[Wuppywoman]

I always tell my puppy people to be wary of vets and to contact me first if there is any problems.

I had NEVER had a complaint about a pup of mine until last year when I got an email saying that these people`s 6 month old yellow Lab had OCD in one elbow. I emailed back asking for a vet report asap as all my dogs are guaranteed against any genetic faults. I also asked for the xrays to send them to Dr Wyburn for his opinion AT MY EXPENSE. He confirmed OCD in one elbow ONLY. The x rays were returned and despite me asking them to consider all options before operating on a young dog they went ahead with an op on that elbow at a cost of $2,500. The vet who did it offered FREE xrays for the other elbow and surprise - found OCD in the other elbow and recommended they operate a few days later!!! Sooo... the puppy people paid $5,000 for the two ops and by this time were pretty pissed to say the least. They told me their vet told them that it must be hereditary as it doesn`t matter what food you feed or what exercise the dog gets, if they are going to get elbow problems they will get them and that basically enviroment is not a factor. I repeatedly asked for a vet certificate stating the finding as I am not prepared to refund on he said, she said. They got very angry and told me it was all my fault and I should never breed from that bitch again who has had 39 pups all up with no issues at all! They emailed me day and night with nasty emails and I repeated told them I am more than happy to refund you as per my guarantee, I just need a vet certificate (which I thinks is perfectly reasonable) but they refused to provide me with one. All they would send me was the discharge notice from the vet which stated the dogs name, date of birth and weight. He was 6 months old and 32.5 kg!!!! ARRRGH I am sure he did have an elbow issue in one elbow as he was limping but if there was an issue with the second elbow Dr Wyburn would have picked it up. This vet saw these people comming! The vet apparrently also told them the pup was not overweight and this was a normal weight for a Lab pup of this age. I spend a huge amount of time making sure puppy buyers are aware of the dangers of letting a Lab become overweight and overexercising in the first 12 months. I have learnt in my relatively few years of dog breeding you can do everything right from your side but if the people listen or not is their choice unfortunately.

[Bisart Dobes]

I worked as a vet nurse for a few years and am so glad I did. It taught me how little vets actually know ('GP' Vets - not specialists) - how much they rely on bloods etc etc It made me more aware of when to step back and observe and when to jump into action - I think my advise to puppy buyers is all the better for this experience and I can certainly 'deal' with vets alot better now. I stopped because I found it too hard to deal with euths.

The vet's I worked with were great and had great ethics. But I will never forget the first major leg surgery I was assisting - seeing this little dog cut open and then hearing the tools slamming into the bone to clean away the effected area and make the joint fit together and work again. My comment to the vet was that all breeders should have to see this kind of operation so that they can see the end result of decisions they make - his comment was good lord no - these breeders keep my business running. And he was an ethical vet !!!

To qualify 'all breeders' - I meant all people who breed any dog .

[Fordogs]

My puppy owners have thankfully asked me to refer them to a vet that has a good knowledge of the breed (they will have to travel a bit but they are more than willing to do that ) and they would like a second opinion on the x-rays so they are going off to a specialist radiologist for evaluation. :D I am very happy. I really hate to see good people taken advantage of just for loving and caring for for their new puppy. Not only that but I also care about the well being of puppies that have to undergo unnecessary procedures.

I am also a veterinary nurse and have no qualms when it comes to letting people know if I think they are being over serviced BUT sometimes you have to wait for them to decide when enough is enough !!!

I am also more than happy to speak to vets and query their treatment . I have worked with both those who say first lets be conservative if no improvement within xx amount of days come back and those other kind !!!!! who I am trying extremely hard here not to Rant about.

I think it is time to rewrite the FIRST page of my puppy folder.

I am not anti vet -- only those other kind that I don't want to go on about.

[armahani]

A great vet, with lots of sensible knowledge, is a wonderful thing, and worth their weight in gold. A vet who doesn't have a lot of specialised knowledge I can also accept and appreciate - after all, I don't expect my GP to know every little medical issue that can arise. But I do expect them to be aware of their limitations and refer where neccessary. What drives my BONKERS is a vet who has very little specialist knowledge in reproduction, mobility issues, etc etc - and yet lectures in an extreme way, diagnoses readily and acts rude and arrogant when questioned. They are the ones I never go back to - and the ones that I groan about when I have a puppy buyer who has one.

Like the vet who told me when my girl with 1 week old pups started to get one breast that was hard and swollen (but still producing clean milk) that there was nothing we could do, it would probably develop into mastitis, and it would be swollen-up and hard for the rest of her life - and then got annoyed with me when I questioned him

But I do love this story ..... I had an email from a future buyer yesterday for one of the pups for my current litter. They had been into their vet to get their cat vaccinated and took in photos of the puppies. Apparently the vet questioned them about their lifestyle, and told them most of the pups would be suitable for them (I just LOVE that he was able to make that decision about the pups' suitability for their lifestyle on the basis of photos! ), but that puppy X would not be suited for them, and they were quite concerned to let me know that they wouldn't be able to take her on their vet's advice.

The reason puppy X would not be suited for them is because she has a slight snow nose (not full - just a bit of pink still in the middle of the nose), and as they were hoping to do outdoor activities with her, such as taking her to the snow and the beach, etc, she would not be right for them because she would have "special needs" for the rest of her life.

This is the pup in question:

I haven't had the energy to reply yet, and it is hardly an issue as it was very unlikely that puppy x was going to be offered to them anyway. On the one hand I thought it was really funny. But there was one part of me where my heart sank with "oh no, they have one of THOSE vets!", and despite the fact that I really like this couple I had a moment's thought of wondering if I could pull out on the basis of who their vet it :D . I just have this awful feeling that in 6 months time their pup is going to step on a prickle, and the next thing their vet is diagnosing severe hip dysplasia requiring surgery!

I can't believe I'm begin so cynical! :D

[Fordogs]

armahani, your puppy is Wayyyyyyy to cute (you can send her to me, I have a great vet these days) and yes, if they have one of those vets / you just don't need that sale.

[Steve]

I have a pup here which has been sold to a vet.Wish me luck