People Who Are Scared Of Dogs

[becks]

I'd be inclined to bark at her as soon as she was approaching, see if you can out 'crazy lady' her and she if she will leave you alone

[The Spotted Devil]

Good luck Huski - I like using a drop rather than a sit as I think as it's perceived to be a more 'stable' position.

I take Zig to an off leash oval that is close to shops, schools and a walking path. I often see mothers walking their young children in prams or toddling along or school kids on bikes. Put yourself in their shoes and all they see is this crazy Spotty dog sprinting flat out from one end of the oval to the other with (apparently) little regard for me. I will often use the opportunity to practice his drop on recall training or something equally spectacular to the untrained eye and the smile of acknowledgement and relief on the parents/kids faces is priceless.....and I get to fit in some distraction training so it's a win-win It's also a lovely way to start conversations about choosing/training dogs with kids who say "Wow! Can you come and train our dog?" or parents/grandparents who say: "Can you train my kids/grandkids?"

[huski]

In regards to this darkened line..IF a dog got too close and sniffed at her and she hit it,,,it would be the dog owners fault..

The idea behind "effective control" is that a dog does NOT enter another persons personal space...not matter what reason.

People may know their dogs are freindly and safe BUT passersby don't know that, and people who are scared of dogs do NOT have to put up with dogs in their personal space no matter how "weird" others think they are.

I agree that just walking passed her and her raising the pole is a bit extreme, especially if you are moving out the way to give her space but gawd knows what her problem is. Maybe she has a mental illness, maybe she has been bitten before, maybe she is fed up with other people letting their dogs harrass her on her walks. (we all KNOW that happens as there are long threads of complaints about it)

When I walk I don't allow other peoples strange dogs within a stick length of me. I can speak english to tell them I will kick/hit their dog if it gets too close. This lady you say cannot speak english so maybe the pole raising is her warning.

I don't care how safe/freindly people tell me their dog is. If I do not know the dog and it gets too close I will warn the owners.

I am a dog lover and have dogs but I'll be stuffed if I am going to have every strangers dog coming up to me on the street. I don't allow my dogs to do it to others and don't expect to put up with other peoples dogs doing it to me.

There is really no reason for a dog to go up to sniff strangers walking by.

I'd stay away from her or cross the road or something. I doubt the council or police could do anything as many people carry sticks etc to keep dogs away. They might be able to have someone talk to her but I don't know what they would be able to tell her.

I just called the Brisbane City Council and spoke to them about this issue.

They said that the only requirements from me, is that my dog is leashed and doesn't act aggressively/try to attack someone.

There are no guidelines about the distance the dog should be from another person, or anything thats says your dog cannot approach a person in a friendly manner when walking past them.

They said that this woman or anyone who hit or hurt my dog would not have a leg to stand on unless the dog was attempting to attack her.

They also told me that if she did hit my dog, that it would be a police manner because she is causing bodily harm.

So, technically, while I agree we should have our dogs under effective control and respect others personal space, you should be careful about whose dogs you threaten and hit with that stick of yours. If they aren't acting aggressively and you injure their dog it is a police matter and NOT the fault of the owner.

[cashew]

Presumably the lady strikes a dog one day...I am sure the dog/owner will retaliate although the dog had not started any aggressive behaviour. Then it becomes a case of my word against her word. IMO, the best is to avoid and walk away from the crazy woman as soon as she is within sight. No point fighting with a looney.

[poodlefan]

Presumably the lady strikes a dog one day...I am sure the dog/owner will retaliate although the dog had not started any aggressive behaviour. Then it becomes a case of my word against her word. IMO, the best is to avoid and walk away from the crazy woman as soon as she is within sight. No point fighting with a looney.

Agree. Avoidance is the best protection for you and your dog.

[persephone]

Agree. Avoidance is the best protection for you and your dog.

*nods*

[megan_]

that reaction is going to get her bitten faster then anything.

If she walks regularly, I would go for a walk without my dog and approach her. And in a very friendly way tell her that the big pole might actually cause some dogs to react thereby creating the very scenario that she is worried about.

[Nannas]

I just called the Brisbane City Council and spoke to them about this issue.

They said that the only requirements from me, is that my dog is leashed and doesn't act aggressively/try to attack someone.

There are no guidelines about the distance the dog should be from another person, or anything thats says your dog cannot approach a person in a friendly manner when walking past them.

They said that this woman or anyone who hit or hurt my dog would not have a leg to stand on unless the dog was attempting to attack her.

They also told me that if she did hit my dog, that it would be a police manner because she is causing bodily harm.

So, technically, while I agree we should have our dogs under effective control and respect others personal space, you should be careful about whose dogs you threaten and hit with that stick of yours. If they aren't acting aggressively and you injure their dog it is a police matter and NOT the fault of the owner.

In your first post, the one I was replying to,,,you DID NOT say this...Your post was...""If a dog went up to sniff her and got too close""

I think you find LAW has a rule about invading someones personal space.

IF you approach someone (no matter in what manner YOU think you are approaching) and they WARN you to stay away from them and you KEEP approaching,,,they have full right to keep you away from them.

They do NOT have to wait until you are in their face or attacking them...they have a LEGAL RIGHT the their own personal space..

IF you are going to ring Council and ask stuff then reply here as you did,, then ATLEAST explain it to them the same as you did in your post..

Not ""Oh well if I am walking by minding our own business and she hits my dog"" But rather as you did in your first post talking about ""a dog going up to sniff at her and getting to close!!!!" while she is obviously warning to get the dog away""

You will find it is a police/court matter and if something happens and you ADMIT that you passed this lady regularly and she appeared terrified of dogs, that she keeps freaking out, that she raises a pole and runs off screaming, that her fear of dogs is extreme, that she cannot speak english and your freinds (DOL) advised you to stay away she is a nutcase (physco) and YET you still let your dog get too close and to sniff at her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may find noone would be terribley sympathetic with you....

On the other hand she would be saying that she IS terrified of dogs (insert reson here) that she passes you often and raises her pole so you know she is scared, as she cannot speak english and yet you still let your dog get too close to her.

NOW I say you as in your reply to me you said you rang Council and said "If you were walking passed" but I was referring to your first post of ""If someone lets their dog get too close to her and sniff at her""

There is a BIG differnce between walking passed someone and letting your dog get too close and go up to sniff someone who is obviously terrified and weilding a metal pole!!!!

Ring the police and explain it just as you did in your first post...How terrified/extreme she is and how she cannot speak english and is weilding a metal pole,,,,then ASK is it OK to let your dog approach her, getting too close and sniffing at her..when obviously she wants the dog to get away from her!!!!

[huski]

Nannas obviously I do my best to avoid this woman as much as I can. When I called the council I said EXACTLY what I said in my OP here and more. I went into detail and asked them their opinion on several scenarios including if my dog attempted to sniff her when we walked past her.

My dog isn't perfect and I want to know where I stand on the off chance that my dog got too close to her (by her standards) in a friendly manner without touching her and this woman hit her. According to the council unless my dog is aggressive or unleashed the woman has no right to hit her simply for walking past or acting in a calm friendly manner.

I asked the council word for word what would happen if my dog tried to sniff her or approached her in a friendly manner. How is attempting to sniff someone they are walking past unfriendly? You'll note in my OP I said - "tried to sniff her or got too close to her (without touching her)".

I think you find LAW has a rule about invading someones personal space.

IF you approach someone (no matter in what manner YOU think you are approaching) and they WARN you to stay away from them and you KEEP approaching,,,they have full right to keep you away from them.

They do NOT have to wait until you are in their face or attacking them...they have a LEGAL RIGHT the their own personal space..

And what law is this when you are in a public space, on a narrow foot path and next to a busy road and you cannot avoid walking past someone?

How are you to know how everyone defines their personal space? What would you do, if you were walking along a busy road on a narrow foot path and someone was walking by you - do you wave your stick at them and demand they get out of your way, even though they have no where to go?

You have NO legal right to hit myself or my dog with a stick if we are simply walking past you.

You will find it is a police/court matter and if something happens and you ADMIT that you passed this lady regularly and she appeared terrified of dogs, that she keeps freaking out, that she raises a pole and runs off screaming, that her fear of dogs is extreme, that she cannot speak english and your freinds (DOL) advised you to stay away she is a nutcase (physco) and YET you still let your dog get too close and to sniff at her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may find noone would be terribley sympathetic with you....

You'll note that the last time I walked by this woman I walked up a drive way to avoid her and she still raised the pole and screamed and carried on.

If my dog is not on the foot path, in a sit/stay at my heel, and leans her neck forward to sniff this woman or hell, sniff something near her (not close enough to touch her and not breaking the stay) I guarantee you, the police would be on my side if the woman hit her.

I would ALWAYS do everything my power to keep my dog away from this woman and out of danger but I wanted to know where I stood in case something did happen. I resent your accusation that I would intentionally put my dog in danger

It's your perogative to feel you can hit any dog that approaches you with a stick but you need to be prepared for the consequences if the dog was leashed and not aggressive.

ETA: Just how close to this woman do you think I was? On both occasions I have described in the OP we were simply walking past her on the foot path, and on both occasions I moved off the foot path and as far away from her as possible.

Edited January 13, 2010 by huski

[MolassesLass]

When you walk past someone on a footpath, there is so little space that it is very tempting for your dog to lean out to sniff (even the air) or look at the passer-by (and that is not lacking "effective control" in my books - or the councils). Someone like this could hit the dog for this benign and tiny movement; I think this is what is being talked about.

Edited January 13, 2010 by molasseslass

[claireybell]

My sister was set upon by a German Shepherd when she was very young. Ever since she has been terrified of these dogs but not all dogs. Just the bigger variety.

I have a friend who has the loveliest German Shepherd you will ever meet. Pasha is just the most gorgeous, friendly and happy dog in the world. I arranged for my sister to meet Pasha (with his owner) at a park. My sister was scared silly at first and wouldn't go near him. After about half an hour of walking around the park she pretty much got over it because she realised how lovely he was. By the end of the play date she was giving him pats and cuddles.

My sister is still wary of larger breed dogs but she no longers runs from them.

[huski]

When you walk past someone on a footpath, there is so little space that it is very tempting for your dog to lean out to sniff (even the air) or look at the passer-by (and that is not lacking "effective control" in my books - or the councils). Someone like this could hit the dog for this benign and tiny movement; I think this is what is being talked about.

Yes that's exactly what I was talking about.

In the first instance I described in the OP, Daisy was not attempting to sniff the woman but moved in front of me (still on a loose leash) to sniff something on the ground. It was a very small movement. Even though she wasn't trying to sniff the woman she freaked out and raised the pole like she was going to hit Daisy. I pulled her back instantly - I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't.

Anyone who has met Daisy knows she's not that people orientated and has very little interest in people when we are out and about (unless you have food) - she is not one of those super friendly dogs who wants a pat from everyone we come across.

[StaceyB]

If it was me I would just move off to the side of the path, put gypsy in a sit or drop position and stand between her and the lady. If the woman started waving the stick around and carrying on like that I would just yell at her to stay away from me.

This woman is actually breaking the law because the stick (or pole or whatever) is being taken out in pulbic for the purpose of using as a weapon - even if she doesn mean it for her own self defence. Waving it around like that is seen as threatening behaviour, especially in Huski's situation when she had pulled Daisy off of the sidewalk and put her in a sit, and there was absolutley no provocation from Huski or Daisy.

I understand that this woman seems to suffer from a fairly extreme phobia, but her behaviour is (legally) unacceptable in a public space and if she can't hadle even walking past a dog she needs to get phyciatric help. Other people have the right to walk their dogs on public streets without being threatened with a pole.

[MolassesLass]

Maybe you could print out "Please stop trying to hit me." in as many languages as you could guess she might know on a sheet of paper and go for a walk without Daisy to try and give it to her. Perhaps she will know some English and try and explain she's not looking to hit you and then you can explain that hitting your dog will get her in trouble with the police also.

What a shitty situation.

Edited January 13, 2010 by molasseslass

[huski]

Yeah it's a bit frustrating. It's not too bad for me because I recognise her and avoid her at all costs but I worry about what would happen if someone who didn't know her walked by with their dog and their dog leaned over for a pat or tried to sniff her. I don't think that a dog deserves to be hit with a metal pole for leaning towards her while being calm and friendly.

Edited January 13, 2010 by huski

[Pete.the.dog]

When you walk past someone on a footpath, there is so little space that it is very tempting for your dog to lean out to sniff (even the air) or look at the passer-by (and that is not lacking "effective control" in my books - or the councils). Someone like this could hit the dog for this benign and tiny movement; I think this is what is being talked about.

Yes that's exactly what I was talking about.

In the first instance I described in the OP, Daisy was not attempting to sniff the woman but moved in front of me (still on a loose leash) to sniff something on the ground. It was a very small movement. Even though she wasn't trying to sniff the woman she freaked out and raised the pole like she was going to hit Daisy. I pulled her back instantly - I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't.

Anyone who has met Daisy knows she's not that people orientated and has very little interest in people when we are out and about (unless you have food) - she is not one of those super friendly dogs who wants a pat from everyone we come across.

When I run with Pete he is on the lead but I let him run ahead of me - if people are approaching on the footpath, at about 5m away I will stop and call pete to heel and then hold him on a very short lead on my left side and pass them on my right - I think that seeing that he is obedient and willing to be on my side assures people. Thankfully I've never had to deal with horrible dangerous psychos though, you poor thing Huski!

Although one women in her thirtys shoved her hand right in petes face to pat him without asking or warning while he was sitting at the side of the road on a leash - some people are so clueless

[Kelly_Louise]

Now I try to be a responsible dog owner and I don't want my dogs to frighten anyone. But this women's fear of dogs is so extreme that I'm worried she will hit my dog simply for walking past her.

Good on you for being so caring and responsible, even in the face of extreme irrationality. I try to do the same, but I can't honestly say it doesn't make me want to scream at them for being ridiculous. I wouldn't, but I want to.

Apart from the risk of her hitting your dog, people like this are very prone to exaggeration (through their fear) - and you just never know where that can bite you in the proverbial. You never know when they become so irrational that they start making a fuss and complaints that can have you defending your totally innocent dog and responsible ways.

Can you maybe say hi to her and explain that your dog is harmless and does not hurt people, and also mention that her lifting the pole is scaring your dog and also yourself. Explain that you are trying to keep your dog away from her, even though you know there is no danger to her - so there is no need to go waving poles around and threatening anyone.

Or... maybe just take your own pole and wave it back at her when she starts

[Pawprints]

If it was me I would just move off to the side of the path, put gypsy in a sit or drop position and stand between her and the lady. If the woman started waving the stick around and carrying on like that I would just yell at her to stay away from me.

This woman is actually breaking the law because the stick (or pole or whatever) is being taken out in pulbic for the purpose of using as a weapon - even if she doesn mean it for her own self defence. Waving it around like that is seen as threatening behaviour, especially in Huski's situation when she had pulled Daisy off of the sidewalk and put her in a sit, and there was absolutley no provocation from Huski or Daisy.

I understand that this woman seems to suffer from a fairly extreme phobia, but her behaviour is (legally) unacceptable in a public space and if she can't hadle even walking past a dog she needs to get phyciatric help. Other people have the right to walk their dogs on public streets without being threatened with a pole.

Agreed 100%.

[Kelly_Louise]

Other people have the right to walk their dogs on public streets without being threatened with a pole.

EXACKERY!

[Nic oh lah]

They do NOT have to wait until you are in their face or attacking them...they have a LEGAL RIGHT the their own personal space..

Excuse me if i'm being completely ignorant and you are currently practicing law in Queensland, but I am, and people had a "legal right" not to feel threatened, just like people have a right to walk their dogs. Are you referencing The QLD Criminal Code of Conduct Chapter 33/355 or Chapter 26 / 272 - you really should be more specific, or leave the law to the lawyers.

And if someone is that concerned for their wellbeing should they be afraid of a dog, they can always walk accross the street. Huski and Daisy has as much right to their personal space as everyone else - regardless on what obscure peice of legislation you think is supporting your argument. I can tell you that were this to go to court, the judge would be much more interested in why a woman is walking around brandishing a weapon with the intent of causing grevious bodily harm to pedestrians and dog's under effective control.