kelpiesrule Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) I have two girls to choose from... 1 choc and 1 black. I am obviously looking for a showdog and potential brood bitch. I have someone desparately after the black girl, but have told them they have to wait for my decision as I have obviously done this mating for me, not them. the pups are only 6 weeks old at the moment and I usually only look lightly at them until they are 8 weeks old when I choose. I had a friend come over last night to go through the puppies. It is a hard decision. The black girl is typey to her father, the choc girl typey to her mother. I love the attitude on the choc girl, she is so happy and playful and outgoing, and while the black girl is too, she tends to be a little more reserved with stuff and very hard to stack on the table etc. ok, so what my friend and I came up with last night... choc girl looked to have a good length of upper arm but a little steep in shoulder, giving her a shorter neck. She has a good croup and tail set, but Im worried she may be a little roachy in the topline, but that does seem to be settling as she gets older. She is very easy to stack. She looks like she may have a lighter eye. She looks like she will have a sleeker coat. black girl is different in shoulder, steeper and shorter in upper arm, but she has a better lay of shoulder giving her a better length of neck, she is very like her father here, who is hard to stack and tends to Aframe alot. She has a flatter topline with a higher tail set. She is bigger, more bone, thick coat like her father and pretty as, but I prefer the head on the choc girl. Dark eye. She is very hard to stack and tends to Aframe. both girls look similar in stifle. there is stuff I love about the black girl, but Im tending towards the choc girl. Yes I know they are only 6 weeks old, but I just would love some advice from those of you who have been breeding for much longer than me. And if you disagree with what we found or even find something we havent, i would love to hear your comments. Here is the black girl, sorry the pics arent so good, we took them last night. Edited January 18, 2010 by kelpiesrule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 And here is the choc girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspyre Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ok first question I would be asking myself would be; What specific traits do you need in your breeding programme?? i.e do you need better shoulders, tail sets, heads, etc. and, Do any of these pups have what it is you need to improve on?? You still have a few weeks up your sleeve to decide, just keep watching them. You seem to have already made some great notes on them, including personality. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about inability to stack properly at this age, unless it is caused by a conformational fault. Most stacking problems you can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ok first question I would be asking myself would be;What specific traits do you need in your breeding programme?? i.e do you need better shoulders, tail sets, heads, etc. and, Do any of these pups have what it is you need to improve on?? Saved me the typing Also ask the question why did I do this mating - as in what specific traits did I want to achieve and have I achieved these ie are these pups an improvement on their parents in the areas I wanted to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Excellent questions The mother - to me she is pretty close to perfect, exactly the type of kelpie i want to breed, her movement is exceptional (she was a standout at 6 weeks of age with her movement). The things I want to improve on her are a little more bone and better feet, maybe a slightly stronger chest and if i was picky, a nicer coat. The father is a nice dog, he has great coat, feet and better bone. He could have a better topline and has a higher tail set which causes him to carry his tail high (same problem with some of his siblings too.) Basically I want to breed another pup like the mother... but with the slight improvements I mentioned. Im not sure if either of these pups will make the grade, but no harm in trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 If you really want to make the right decision, I would suggest you hold on to both girls for a bit longer - maybe till 12 weeks. They can change so very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) The mother - to me she is pretty close to perfect, exactly the type of kelpie i want to breed, her movement is exceptional (she was a standout at 6 weeks of age with her movement). The things I want to improve on her are a little more bone and better feet, maybe a slightly stronger chest and if i was picky, a nicer coat. From the sounds of this then the Choc girl is more what you are after. She has improved on her fathers coat and tail set. What I would be looking at is what is around to help compliment the faults of these pups, ie top lines, light eyes etc and which is easier to breed out. To me attitude also plays a big part in what I choose, a shy reserved pup is harder to show. I would be writing a list of all the good and bad points of each pup, looking at what is easier to fix and then which one comes out in front. Also knowing the lines behind the parents helps and how they matured from pups. It is a tough choice and one I have been going through with my last litter, 2 girls stand out but are both very different from each other. Leanne Edited January 12, 2010 by Ozstar Kennels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspyre Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Excellent questions The mother - to me she is pretty close to perfect, exactly the type of kelpie i want to breed, her movement is exceptional (she was a standout at 6 weeks of age with her movement). The things I want to improve on her are a little more bone and better feet, maybe a slightly stronger chest and if i was picky, a nicer coat. The father is a nice dog, he has great coat, feet and better bone. He could have a better topline and has a higher tail set which causes him to carry his tail high (same problem with some of his siblings too.) Basically I want to breed another pup like the mother... but with the slight improvements I mentioned. Im not sure if either of these pups will make the grade, but no harm in trying Ok well from your OP you already think that the chocky girl is most like her mum. Is she an improvement on the things you listed above, feet, bone, chest?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Excellent questions The mother - to me she is pretty close to perfect, exactly the type of kelpie i want to breed, her movement is exceptional (she was a standout at 6 weeks of age with her movement). The things I want to improve on her are a little more bone and better feet, maybe a slightly stronger chest and if i was picky, a nicer coat. The father is a nice dog, he has great coat, feet and better bone. He could have a better topline and has a higher tail set which causes him to carry his tail high (same problem with some of his siblings too.) Basically I want to breed another pup like the mother... but with the slight improvements I mentioned. Im not sure if either of these pups will make the grade, but no harm in trying Ok well from your OP you already think that the chocky girl is most like her mum. Is she an improvement on the things you listed above, feet, bone, chest?? I think she could be, but have i kept her other good parts? that is the hard bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 In an ideal world i would just keep both pups and run them on, that would be easy. But I am unable to do that. Im curious as to peoples thoughts on the front movement of either pup considering their different shoulders.. choc girl with her good upper arm and straighter shoulder angle black girl with her straigher upper arm and good shoulder angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 I prefer the chocolate girl from the photos you posted, the croup isn't as good as the black girl but the shoulder appeals as does the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 As neither have the correct fronts, do you really want to keep one from this mating? What is the dams shoulders like? Maybe try again with a different sire and see if you can get correct shoulders and some of the other improvements you wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hard to tell from the angle of the photos but the choc looks more correct in outline. Remember with the shoulders that the lay of shoulder may still inprove but a short upper arm is short forever. Watch them move over the next week or so, but I think you will find that the choc will probably move better. Get out baby photos of the mum and compare as well. Like BC's, there is probably no point in running two on unless you can do it for two years. The best time to pick is between 6 and 8 weeks because after that they can hit the "uglies" pretty soon and just complicate the issue. With BC's the only things I cannot pick by 8 weeks are final size and ear carriage. Everything else you see in an 8 week old puppy is pretty much what they will be when mature, but they may look nothing like this on the way to that maturity. I know in some breeds this does not seem to apply but it does with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie-mae Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Lee-Anne, Don't envy your decision! Both nice pups. Like the length & topline of the black girl, how do they look when moving? Like the others said, think about who you'd like to use down the track & if they'd compliment the pup you decide on keeping. cheers, Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Lee-Anne, Don't envy your decision! Both nice pups. Like the length & topline of the black girl, how do they look when moving? Like the others said, think about who you'd like to use down the track & if they'd compliment the pup you decide on keeping. cheers, Jan. Thanks Jan Im actually worried the black girl is too long, and im not sure i like her front, too much like her father lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie-mae Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Lee-Anne, Don't envy your decision! Both nice pups. Like the length & topline of the black girl, how do they look when moving? Like the others said, think about who you'd like to use down the track & if they'd compliment the pup you decide on keeping. cheers, Jan. Thanks Jan Im actually worried the black girl is too long, and im not sure i like her front, too much like her father lol You're right, I think the choc girl's topline will even out & she will be lovely, great bone too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Lee-Anne, Don't envy your decision! Both nice pups. Like the length & topline of the black girl, how do they look when moving? Like the others said, think about who you'd like to use down the track & if they'd compliment the pup you decide on keeping. cheers, Jan. Thanks Jan Im actually worried the black girl is too long, and im not sure i like her front, too much like her father lol You're right, I think the choc girl's topline will even out & she will be lovely, great bone too! It is a difficult decision, im drawn to the choc girl, she has such a happy attitude there are things i love about the black girl, but looking more into it, i think the choc girl has more pros than cons.... she is going to be a pretty little thing i think. im not sure she will be anywhere as good as her half brother Jasper... or even have the movement of her mother, but I guess all I can do is try hey if she doesnt work out, then she doesnt... I tried to sit down and watch them move around this afternoon, even took some video, the little ferals just bounced around everywhere lol. Such little cuties and such time wasters. Glenys prefers the choc girl via photo, and Di will see them this weekend.... hopefully Glenys will too, so will be interesting on their input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakeydoak1 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie-mae Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Yep, prefer to see them in the flesh as photos can lie (make good dogs look bad & visa versa) but as per photo I too think the choc girl will be the better (even though I love black bitches!) Mind you they do both have some lovely qualities! Decisions,decisions,decisions.....at least you have 2 to choose from, I have to get my pups safely on the ground first, then need to get some bitches in the litter, then need to have at least one nice one ....lol suppose I've got step one covered, we are pregnant! More photos at 8 weeks would be great , try by then to access their movement as best you can & I think the outgoing nature of choc girl would be something I'd certainly be drawn to Then hopefully I'll have a choice you can help me with...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 If i had to choose between two that where equal quality with equal faults BUT one had an attitude that would be a major factor,no matter what in the end a dog with attitude is a pleasure to show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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