Moving From Novice To Open

[Zug Zug]

Okay, so with 2 legs of Novice under our belt and so close to having our CD title (the long-time dream), we are actually thinking about competing in Open sometime next year.

Well, I'm thinking about it. Zamba doesn't know yet...

Anyway, this is where we're up to.

Heel free - still inconsistent - sometimes brilliant. Working on this at present. Needs work.

Stand free - amazingly we've become pretty good at this. Who woulda thunk it?

Drop on Recall - haven't even dared try it. Scared.

Retrieve Dumbbell on Flat - she loves it. No problem.

Retrieve Dumbbell over Solid Jump - jumping makes fetching even more fun. Bring it on!

Broad Jump - probably easy based on a few practice tries. Might cut the corner a bit.

Distance Control - definitely harder, definitely more useful - undecided about learning this one.

Stays out of sight - we'll get there. Building it slowly at the moment. Progressing well.

So key questions are: how and when do we start working on Drop on Recall? Can it stuff up our normal recall (hence better to wait until after we get our 3rd leg of novice)?

And is distance control really worth it?

Note: Zamba is nearly 12 (we think - rescue dog from over 10 years ago so we don't know her exact age but she's still very fit and lively). Given her age, chances of going on to UD pretty slim.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Zug Zug

[TerraNik]

Re: distance control vs. broad jump -- if you are planning on going onto UD then you should teach distance control. Broad jump has no future applications, whereas you have a compulsory distance control exercise in UD. But you said you don't think you'll be doing UD, so it's personal choice then.

I haven't found drop on recall to effect either of my dogs' recalls.

[ness]

Introduce a DOR as a game - 2 food game/DOR. COP isn't actually all that hard to teach and I wouldn't even bother with a broad jump.

[Zug Zug]

2 food game? I don't know what that means.

So consensus is distance control is worthwhile? Perhaps worth a shot then?

[ness]

Didn't you go to the Sue seminar Zug Zug???

[Zug Zug]

Yes - but there was a lot to learn that day. What have I forgotten?

[ness]

I spy Ptolomy - awww bugger. Hmmm essentially you can either have the dog running around loose and give them a command to drop and reward while they are free playing but you can set it up throwing food for the dog to chase.

Edited January 12, 2010 by ness

[Zug Zug]

Yeah ok I get that now. Tried that last night in training - drop, click, throw food away to reward, she chases it, then on her way back drop, click, etc. She loved it - too easy! Haven't linked it with the recall yet but getting a very quick and excited drop in motion now so that's a good start.

I might try the distance control thing in the next few weeks and see how she takes to that.

V. quick learner this one. Also quick to learn bad habits unfortunately. Keeps me on my toes.

[ness]

I also taught mine with sending around a cone. Kenzie loves racing out around a traffic cone so I would send her out and as she was racing back to me ask her to drop .

[Dova]

Don't let Zamba's age stop you Zug Zug it won't stop her . If we pass in our next trial Pebbles will have her title, her heeling is pretty good but to sharpen it up I'm doing catch up with her, SFE is surprisingly good, DOR good, can't go into her retrieval because she ain't got one except when I tell her to fetch chookie then she'll look every where to find chookie & bring it to me, unless I can fix that we won't be giong any further, HELP! .

[Zug Zug]

You're right - she's still really active so why let age hold us back eh? And we both enjoy it. So with that in mind, quick update.

Drop on recall - she's picking it up ok - early days. Tried it in the park today and had to build it up again but she caught on. Need to work on dropping straight away, not keep running then drop when she gets near me. But I'm happy with the progress and it's not as hard as I thought (famous last words...) Question: how far can she travel after the signal before they say she hasn't done it?

Distance Control - OK you all convinced me to try, so gave it a quick go today. From what I saw from her today she'll get it (at least the basic response) pretty quickly. Will be harder as I move further away, but that's just time and practice I guess - no rush. I won't do much more of this until we've got our 3rd leg of novice.

Sit stay out of sight - up to 2 minutes and most of the time she does it right. Sometimes she drops tho and of course I don't know about it until the 2 minutes are up because I'm out of sight. What do people do about this? I need spies in the trees!

Drop stay out of sight - rock solid - yay!!! There was a time in her life when I thought the whole idea of 'not moving' would never, ever, ever catch on. Age does make some things easier.

[The Spotted Devil]

You're right - she's still really active so why let age hold us back eh? And we both enjoy it. So with that in mind, quick update.

Drop on recall - she's picking it up ok - early days. Tried it in the park today and had to build it up again but she caught on. Need to work on dropping straight away, not keep running then drop when she gets near me. But I'm happy with the progress and it's not as hard as I thought (famous last words...) Question: how far can she travel after the signal before they say she hasn't done it?

I haven't read the rule book yet so I can't help you with your question. I just pull a drop out of the hat when Zig is sprinting flat out and doing his own thing at the park. He is very quick to preempt an exercise so I'm not even touching it with the recall yet! You can also play a game with the clicker where you only reinforce fast drops - I combine it with the 2 food game to get Zig running and I also add fast sits and stands to make him think and watch and listen. I alternate between voice only or hand signal only to ensure he understands both.

Distance Control - OK you all convinced me to try, so gave it a quick go today. From what I saw from her today she'll get it (at least the basic response) pretty quickly. Will be harder as I move further away, but that's just time and practice I guess - no rush. I won't do much more of this until we've got our 3rd leg of novice.

Make sure she understands both hand signal and the voice signal - sometimes they have only cottoned on to one part of the command and if you give a poor hand signal you can blow a Novice trial sitting on 197 Also be careful that she doesn't preempt the drop - Zig thinks he is very clever ;)

Sit stay out of sight - up to 2 minutes and most of the time she does it right. Sometimes she drops tho and of course I don't know about it until the 2 minutes are up because I'm out of sight. What do people do about this? I need spies in the trees!

I do a lot of training on my own so actually use the trees as my 'out of sight' so I can watch his body language - I make sure I go back and reinforce the sit at intervals (especially when he is absolutely rock solid) so he is never rewarded for dropping. It may be that your girl doesn't "get" the exercise - does she ever drop in Novice trials?

Drop stay out of sight - rock solid - yay!!! There was a time in her life when I thought the whole idea of 'not moving' would never, ever, ever catch on. Age does make some things easier.

That's great

Just some thoughts from a novice trialler

Edited January 17, 2010 by The Spotted Devil

[Ptolomy]

A suggestion for stays - don't always make it a formal exercise - put her into a sit and go and pull a few weeds, or water a plant, go back and reward her for sitting and then go and water another one - or hang out the washing.....

and yes I too usually begin by going behind a car or a tree or a building and pop my head out and tell them what a good job they are doing, sometimes I don't even both going out of sight - just stand where I can still see them next to the car or the building.

[Zug Zug]

Thanks - we'll keep at it. And I'll mix it up around the yard a bit for the stays - great ideas.

Hmm, does she drop in sit stays when I'm in sight? She has done it a few times, not a big habit. Sometimes when it is hot, or when there is a HUGE big itchy German Shepherd alongside her in a trial having a big old SCRATCH and leaning towards her.

Who could blame her in that situation? I certainly thought 'hey - good choice'.

So yes sometimes. Not much. But the longer it goes on (i.e. beyond 1 minute), the more she wants to rest so that's something I think we need to watch. As you've suggested, I will pop my head out and tell her how great she is. Might even click from behind the trees. That will perk her up!

I never thought we'd get this far anyway so this is all a great bonus. People who knew her as a newly rescued bonkers dog cannot imagine her being obedient in any situation. I wish they would come and watch her at a trial now. I'm so proud of how far we've come together. Feel a bit sad as I write this. Why do they have to get old?

[Dova]

Are you coming to Gawler at the end of February, maybe we can get our titles at the same time, if I don't stuff up that is . a bit here, Delta starts Scolars in Collars, Basics, on Sunday so might be able to do CCD with her soon .

[ZAUBISTAR]

I spy Ptolomy - awww bugger. Hmmm essentially you can either have the dog running around loose and give them a command to drop and reward while they are free playing but you can set it up throwing food for the dog to chase.

Yep, this is pretty much how I've started. Early days on this one.

A suggestion for stays - don't always make it a formal exercise - put her into a sit and go and pull a few weeds, or water a plant, go back and reward her for sitting and then go and water another one - or hang out the washing.....

and yes I too usually begin by going behind a car or a tree or a building and pop my head out and tell them what a good job they are doing, sometimes I don't even both going out of sight - just stand where I can still see them next to the car or the building.

I like this a lot I was doing something similar inside by going to the kitchen but I think I'll start this outside.

COP- easy take it slow, get the dog really solid close up then gradually increase your distance. That's how I've been doing it anyway.

[Zug Zug]

Progress - and FRUSTRATION!!!

Okay, after a few more weeks, this is where we're up to:

Heel free - we are really inconsistent. Sometimes good, sometimes smelling the grass, rolling around and scratching her back. She did this in her last trial. WHAT TO DO????

Stand for exam - really really good at the moment

Drop on Recall - just doing the 2 food game at the moment, drop, click, throw food long way away then when she is coming back drop, click, throw food etc. She is loving this game big time and dropping really quickly.

Retrieve Dumbbell on flat - FRUSTRATION

[Zug Zug]

Progress - and FRUSTRATION!!!

Okay, after a few more weeks, this is where we're up to:

Heel free - we are really inconsistent. Sometimes good, sometimes smelling the grass, rolling around and scratching her back. She did this in her last trial. WHAT TO DO????

Stand for exam - really really good at the moment

Drop on Recall - just doing the 2 food game at the moment, drop, click, throw food long way away then when she is coming back drop, click, throw food etc. She is loving this game big time and dropping really quickly.

Retrieve Dumbbell on flat - FRUSTRATION - half the time she goes for a sniff (see heeling)

Retrieve dumbbell over Solid Jump - same

Distance Control - consistently good at 1m away

3 min sit stay out of sight - Hmm, mostly good, sometimes she drops. Still working on it

5 min down stay out of sight - bulletproof

I could really use some advice on this whole sniff, roll problem. It's as if sometimes she thinks 'well, this is my only chance to sniff and I'm not going to miss it'.

Should I be letting her sniff before we practice? After? Never? Can a dog be de-sniffed? (Joke!)

Edited January 26, 2010 by Zug Zug

[Zug Zug]

BTW good luck Dova and Delta - and yes we will be in Gawler on the 20th hoping to get the final leg of our Novice title. (But we are also signed up for March 6 - given the state of our heeling at the moment, not counting any chickens!)

Edited January 26, 2010 by Zug Zug

[bedazzledx2]

It sounds like sniffing is rewarding for her. Why not use a bit of Premack in your training? Get 3 steps of nice attentive heelwork and release her to have a good sniff! Then increase and alternate the number of attentive steps before releasing. It sounds strange but using the principles of Premack is an amazingly powerful training tool and you will find the inappropriate sniffing will become less because it will be on cue and become a reward for given behaviour.

For the dumbbell I would be going back to baby steps and do everything up close. Get great pickups, presents in front within 2 meters of you before throwing it.

Good luck :-)

Progress - and FRUSTRATION!!!

Okay, after a few more weeks, this is where we're up to:

Heel free - we are really inconsistent. Sometimes good, sometimes smelling the grass, rolling around and scratching her back. She did this in her last trial. WHAT TO DO????

Stand for exam - really really good at the moment

Drop on Recall - just doing the 2 food game at the moment, drop, click, throw food long way away then when she is coming back drop, click, throw food etc. She is loving this game big time and dropping really quickly.

Retrieve Dumbbell on flat - FRUSTRATION - half the time she goes for a sniff (see heeling)

Retrieve dumbbell over Solid Jump - same

Distance Control - consistently good at 1m away

3 min sit stay out of sight - Hmm, mostly good, sometimes she drops. Still working on it

5 min down stay out of sight - bulletproof

I could really use some advice on this whole sniff, roll problem. It's as if sometimes she thinks 'well, this is my only chance to sniff and I'm not going to miss it'.

Should I be letting her sniff before we practice? After? Never? Can a dog be de-sniffed? (Joke!)