Jed Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Oops, SPRUNG!! PF, how very dare you!! Gee Erny, I don't think that BIG budgie can be MINE!! Well, maybe. Hi ahmadi, you're right!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Oops, SPRUNG!! PF, how very dare you!! Gee Erny, I don't think that BIG budgie can be MINE!! Well, maybe.Hi ahmadi, you're right!! Well, Jed, I don't think there's any law (yet) about where you can or cannot put your budgie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr R & NR Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Not if it is a pure bred budgie Erny.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 KismetKat People say this sort of seminar will result in government legislating all sorts of rules and tests that breeders must do for all dogs to meet some 'insert batteries here' type dog. As there are many debilitating and even lethal genetic issues that dogs can carry, and government hasn't legislated about such things, why is it such a certainty in some people's minds that government would legislate about temperament? Not the seminar, the people and the ideology behind it. And not just temperament, everything. People say that it is all about training and socialisation - yet I was chatting with a breeder just the other day and a dog she had kept for stud was proving to be somewhat DA. She told me she thought she should not breed from him afterall as she was not happy with his temperament. And this a dog raised in the breeders own home! It's about genetics and training etc. You do a better job as a trainer with better tools. Remember though, "somewhat DA" might train up well, and be a good pet, but should not be used for stud --- so the breeder is doing the right thing by ditching the dog. The nature vs nurture discussion will be going on for centuries. As a breeder, I want to breed pups with the correct temperament, but it's then up to the owner to make or break them. Apropos of nothing, I believe that the RSPCA is a sponsor of this seminar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Apropos of nothing, I believe that the RSPCA is a sponsor of this seminar. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I was about to post in Lost and Found LOST 1 Budgie, very large, accustomed to hiding in dark spaces Answers to the name Smuggler But I see he is in good hands... I mean pants... Jed, so you can keep him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) Still think we should be Building Better Humans first ... Most of the ones I have met, specially romantically have been a bit of a disappointment Sorry completely off topic. ETA if anyone is building one can I have mine looking like this, cradle snatcher that I am... Edited January 14, 2010 by Quickasyoucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 mlc I think the point was that this seminar day is about dogs and their welfare. All dogs. All of the presentations on the day will contain information relating to (all) dogs. It's not a pedigree specific day and it's not a cross-breed specific day, it's a day about dogs. It's not an anti pure bred day or an anti cross bred day, it's a day about dogs. Some of the presenters are known, by their own writings and speech over a decade, to be anti purebred dogs. Whether the rest are is unknown to us. And as there is to be a presentation by an oodledoodle breeder who has used the technique of criticising purebred dogs to boost her own oodledoodles, you can hardly claim "it's not an anti pure bred day" and be believed. The facts are plain, there is no point in denying them. If you want to support people who don't support purebred dogs, that's ok, but you can hardly expect to come to a purebred dog forum and receive universal accolades and sunshine. Nothing personal, sometimes it necessary to shoot the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieflicker Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) KismetKatPeople say this sort of seminar will result in government legislating all sorts of rules and tests that breeders must do for all dogs to meet some 'insert batteries here' type dog. As there are many debilitating and even lethal genetic issues that dogs can carry, and government hasn't legislated about such things, why is it such a certainty in some people's minds that government would legislate about temperament? Not the seminar, the people and the ideology behind it. And not just temperament, everything. People say that it is all about training and socialisation - yet I was chatting with a breeder just the other day and a dog she had kept for stud was proving to be somewhat DA. She told me she thought she should not breed from him afterall as she was not happy with his temperament. And this a dog raised in the breeders own home! It's about genetics and training etc. You do a better job as a trainer with better tools. Remember though, "somewhat DA" might train up well, and be a good pet, but should not be used for stud --- so the breeder is doing the right thing by ditching the dog. The nature vs nurture discussion will be going on for centuries. As a breeder, I want to breed pups with the correct temperament, but it's then up to the owner to make or break them. Apropos of nothing, I believe that the RSPCA is a sponsor of this seminar. Why do you think RSPCA is sponsor of the seminar? Edited January 14, 2010 by Aussieflicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) People say they have beagles with perfect recall and the 'sniffy' gene is not a problem - yet I have seen more threads that I can poke a stick at from beagle owners asking about fully-fenced parks and even advice on the beagle rescue website that these dogs should never be left off-lead due to their sniffiness. I didn't say my beagle has perfect recall (although she does when we are training) - I said that I have no problem keeping her nose off the ground. And the reason I said that was because Kate the vet said that once a beag's nose goes to the ground they are all but deaf and that it's their desire to scent that stops them from being the perfect family pet. Total rubbish - they ARE the perfect family pet for the RIGHT family. A family who is suitable to own a scent hound. I get sick of hearing beags are untrainable when they are in fact very trainable Their instinct to scent is not a "problem" - it's what they were bred to do. Edited January 14, 2010 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 mlcI think the point was that this seminar day is about dogs and their welfare. All dogs. All of the presentations on the day will contain information relating to (all) dogs. It's not a pedigree specific day and it's not a cross-breed specific day, it's a day about dogs. It's not an anti pure bred day or an anti cross bred day, it's a day about dogs. Some of the presenters are known, by their own writings and speech over a decade, to be anti purebred dogs. Whether the rest are is unknown to us. And as there is to be a presentation by an oodledoodle breeder who has used the technique of criticising purebred dogs to boost her own oodledoodles, you can hardly claim "it's not an anti pure bred day" and be believed. The facts are plain, there is no point in denying them. If you want to support people who don't support purebred dogs, that's ok, but you can hardly expect to come to a purebred dog forum and receive universal accolades and sunshine. Nothing personal, sometimes it necessary to shoot the messenger. I often contemplate the irony of a DD producer bagging out purebred dogs while exploiting the hell out of them for profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 So because some of the presenters breed crosses that automatically means that the whole seminar is going to be pushing crossbreds even though at least one of the other presenters is a breeder of purebreds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsfolly Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Apropos of nothing, I believe that the RSPCA is a sponsor of this seminar. Just to clarify, this seminar is not being funded by RSPCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 So because some of the presenters breed crosses that automatically means that the whole seminar is going to be pushing crossbreds even though at least one of the other presenters is a breeder of purebreds? Ohhh how I wish to be proven wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) Lets put health issues aside for a moment. The more I think about "modifying" purebred dogs to turn them into different shaped animals with one placid, biddable temperament, the more it gets up my nose. Thousands of years (in some cases) of selective breeding have got us to where we are. If you don't like the idea of a sighthound that chases things or a scent hound that sniffs things, a herding breed that herds things or a guarding breed that guards things then another breed might be better for you. What drives this push towards the notion of "ideal companion dog" is the notion that everyone wants the same sort of dog. FFS we can't even agree on one ideal flavour of icecream, why are people suggesting that everyone's needs will be met by something that's the equivalent of a vanilla canine? Sheer human ignorance, impulsiveness and irresponsiblity drives people to get the wrong dog for their home. Tackle that and you've got the problem licked. (please note pun ) We have the diversity of breeds we have because they were developed for diverse purposes. As humans aren't we meant to celebrate diversity, not eliminate it? The problem isn't with the dogs but with people's failure to understand their needs. Personally what I'm looking for a dog isn't in a dumbed down version of any breed. What's next.. breeding exotic cats with no predatory behaviours? Edited January 14, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Lets put health issues aside for a moment.The more I think about "modifying" purebred dogs to turn them into different shaped animals with one placid, biddable temperament, the more it gets up my nose. Thousands of years (in some cases) of selective breeding have got us to where we are. If you don't like the idea of a sighthound that chases things or a scent hound that sniffs things, a herding breed that herds things or a guarding breed that guards things then another breed might be better for you. What drives this push towards the notion of "ideal companion dog" is the notion that everyone wants the same sort of dog. FFS we can't even agree on one ideal flavour of icecream, why are people suggesting that everyone's needs will be met by something that's the equivalent of a vanilla canine? Sheer human ignorance, impulsiveness and irresponsiblity drives people to get the wrong dog for their home. Tackle that and you've got the problem licked. (please note pun ) We have the diversity of breeds we have because they were developed for diverse purposes. As humans aren't we meant to celebrate diversity, not eliminate it? The problem isn't with the dogs but with people's failure to understand their needs. What's next.. breeding exotic cats with no predatory behaviours? Excellent post PF and I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) One of the first things I ask new handlers and dogs in beginners classes is what their breed (if purebred or known crosses) was developed to do. You'd be surprised how many people don't know. You won't be surprised where such folk got their dogs. Explaining to a very frustrated JRT handler why their dog is standing on two legs gazing at the offlead area while the BCs and Labradors are happily focussed on their handlers can be very illuminating. Explaining to the frustrated Beagle handler that they own a scent hound produces similar results. So your dog is sniffing.. well that's what he's hardwired to do! Buy a dog based on looks alone and you're almost bound to strike problems. Understanding the dog sure beats modifying them so that any person can deal with them. In order to "build a better dog" you have to find them wanting in the first place. As has already been pointed out, most problems with dogs lie at the other end of the lead. Edited January 14, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetBehaviourist Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 The more I think about "modifying" purebred dogs to turn them into different shaped animals with one placid, biddable temperament, the more it gets up my nose. Thousands of years (in some cases) of selective breeding have got us to where we are. This sounds a tad contradictory to me...haven't humans "modified" wolves through the process of domestication to turn them into the different shapes and sizes that we see in the "pure" breeds we have today? The process of domestication required that only those individuals with placid natures who showed less fear of people were selectively bred together. Species (including us and dogs) continue to evolve in order to adapt to a changing environment. Nothing stays the same forever!!! And NO!!!! I am NOT AGAINST PURE BREEDS...I LOVE them and I've owned them all my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmurps Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I just wish that the animal welfare groups would concentrate on animal welfare, educate people on dog ownership & responsibilies, stop & take action against cruelty &Leave the registered purebreed dog breeders alone & stop blaming the dogs & breeders for every problem. It does seem that all the problems are blamed on the breeds & the breeders & not on the owners. There is no such thing as the perfect dog. It is a living being, not a toy. The majority of dumped dogs are not from registered purebred breeders. The majority of dogs involved in cruelty & roaming the streets are not either. The majority of impulse buys are not from registered breeders. Animal welfare is supposed to be about animals being cared for properly not genetically engineering the perfect pooch for the masses, like a bloody new car. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Here's my two cents. I think that you'll find that the seminar has been put on primarily as a venue for the uni students to present their research papers and the academic keynote speakers to meet some of the "publish or perish" requirements of their jobs. The signs of this are: 1. it is free 2. only local speakers are presenting keynote papers. If this is the case, then the uni won't have been interested in looking far & wide for appropriate, knowledgeable speakers & there wouldn't be funds to pay for high profile overseas (or even local) invited speakers. I understand that lunch is being provided so that is where any sponsorship moneys will go. However, this is an opportunity for reputable breeders to be represented (at least on the panel), and I would suggest that Vic Dogs, ANKC, MDBA provide volunteers to the organizers for the panel. There may also be space in the program for brief presentations or poster presentations, stalls, etc, during the lunch break. It may be possible to turn this event into an opportunity to promote pedigreed dogs and their responsible breeders, and to challenge some of the misconceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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