MelissaS Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) Hi I have a strange problem that I am hoping to fix.I am not sure of the best approach. I am minding my friends dog Jo for 2 weeks while she is on hols.Jo the dog is very familiar with my house and dogs. He visits regularly and I have minded him before and she has also minded my dogs with him staying here.He loves coming here.Has not had a bad experience here. He loves other dogs and used to love his walks but now my friend literally has to drag him.He won't relent. He will either just sit or not move.He will not give in.Won't move an inch.She said it is very embarrassing and it looks like he is an abused dog as she is trying to pull him along.She can't go walking more than a block with him now as she is pulling him. She warned me before she went away that he has been acting "weird" lately.This consists of not wanting to go on his walks or not going outside when he is told. He is frightened of loud noises and has been fearful of loud sounds & things falling& sudden movements before.There are no loud sounds here thou. He isn't a jumpy or nervy dog-it's more of a sad quiet mood. He has never shown any aggression towards humans. There is no obvious reason such as a trauma or health injury.He was vet checked and he is fine.He is also active and robust when playing with my dogs inside. Today is his second day here and I could not get him to go outside in the yard at all.He hid and finally at 3am I put a leash on him and he would not budge at all.He would not move unless dragged and still put up resistance and then would not toilet.He just kept sitting still. When I tried just calling and coaxing him outside he just ignored me or hid. I am now very concerned. As he is here for 2 weeks I need to work on it.My friend told me to ignore him if he is being stubborn etc. However, ignoring him is not doing any good either. He needs to go out at least to go to toliet.I have left door open all day and night in hope he will go out but he hasn't that I have seen. Although, he has not gone to the toilet in the house anywhere that I can find. The owner herself has no idea why this has become an issue.She is concerned about it and how to fix it.She was worried it may happen-she did warn me. She said he has been "sulking a lot lately" at home.He is well cared for and she is a responsible dog owner.Till the issues arose he was going for two 45 minute walks a day. She is now O/S but if any emergency or issues said her parents will pick him up take him to their place quite happily. They don't mind. When she was telling me and asked me not to walk him I didn't think it would be an issue just going into the yard as usually he hangs with my pack& follows them around including in the yard etc.. One of the reasons she thought he would be better here than at her parents was that he has a pack here to play and be with as they have no dogs. He seems to want to be on his own and is basically aloof today.Lying in doorways or under tables. As he has been doing this at his own home I just am not sure what the cause is. He is eating normally. He is a lovely dog and submissive in nature so I don't know if it is a dominance or asserting himself thing? I really want him to stay but a fortnight of this seems like it will be very stressful. I would like to do the right thing by Jo and my friend.I can call the parents to take him. He lived in their home with her for over 2 years but will probably do the same thing there.She told me her dad had problems getting him to go outside recently. My OH is very worried too as he feels Jo isn't happy and concerned it may affect our dogs pack dynamic etc.. . Any advice or suggestions would be really appreciated as I am worried. Thanks. Edited January 11, 2010 by MelissaS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 If he has been there two days now and has not toileted at all, bladder or bowel, I would be really concerned. You say you've left the door open, could he have snuck out and toileted when you weren't looking? He maybe doesn't want to go out when asked for fear he'll be locked outside or will be then leashed for the suddenly dreadful 45 min walk - just guessing here. If he in the past has played happily with your dogs both indoors and out and is now "aloof, lying in doorways and under tables" to me this could indicate a dog with pain issues of some kind. I know you said he was vet checked but I wonder if a second opinion would be benefical? Could you try him on a mild painkiller and see if it makes a difference? If he is not going to be happier at the parents I would probably keep him on, if it was me, especially if I felt the parents may not be as cluey in observing possibly ill dogs...JMO Too hot to sleep here I am posting on DOL - you too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Did your friend ever leave him outside when she wasn't at home? He may have had a nasty experience, and is now frightened to go outside or on walks because of that. I'd be calling a behaviourist, and seeing if they can help - especially if there is no sign of any physical issues... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Did your friend ever leave him outside when she wasn't at home? He may have had a nasty experience, and is now frightened to go outside or on walks because of that.I'd be calling a behaviourist, and seeing if they can help - especially if there is no sign of any physical issues... T. If there is no medical reason I'd be thinking that he had a bad experience - when everyone was out? Maybe some rescue remedy or soothing pheromones. Can you ring your friend to get permission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Reads as if this poor dog is quite unwell...in some form Have you taken him in the car to a new park? Will he walk on leash there,sniff, etc with your dogs? I would suggest calling in a GOOD, EXPERIENCED vet behaviourist... as it is a big worry...a veterinary behaviourist will be able to assess both the obvious behaviour, and any health issues... An obvious question.. were his eyes checked thoroughly? A visual disturbance may cause some odd symptoms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I too would be getting his eyes checked (if that's possible for a dog!) My boy has put the brakes on a few times lately, sat and refused to budge - for no apparent reason. He also suddenly developed a fear of the kitchen and some parts of bare floor which makes me think when he can't see the rugs, he loses his confidence. How old is the dog you are looking after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shells Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 The dgg sounds unwell. To go from happy and walking 2 x 45 mins a day to sulking is what my female dog did recently when she had an infected paw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 A thorough check over is definately in order, dogs are very stoic and he may have a painful problem. I would also get him seen by a chiro if possible and a vet. It is not normal for a dog to suddenly change for no reason. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hate to mention it but this could be a serious neurological problem. Acting weird can be an indicator of brain tumour of inflammation. Having had a dog suffer bacterial meningitis followed by the brain damage it caused I would be very careful with this dog. My dog had no "health" symptoms at all except a little intermittent lameness in one leg but was acting strange over several months. Nothing that made alarm bells ring but odd things like hiding under his bed, barking in the car, asking to be let out to bark at one spot on the fence in the middle of the night. He was still eating, was obedient and looked healthy. Vets and Chiro's were consulted about his leg and none of us worked out anything wrong with it or that it could all be in his head. Unfortunately, when I gave him a hug one night, he let out a scream of intense pain and attacked me quite badly. Moments later he was looking at me trying to work out what happened. I am sure he had no idea he had caused my injuries. After a long talk with the vet we decided whatever was wrong he was suffering, and would be dangerous to handle for intense veterinary work. Even if we found a cause he would not be able to tell us if he was feeling better after treatment. We opted to pts three days after the attack and find out what happened. The vet's autopsy revealed greatly increased fluid pressure in the brain but nothing at all wrong with the lame leg. Pathology on the brain showed extensive irrepairable brain damage with scar tissue from (probably bacterial) meningitis that was obstructing the drainage of the fluid around the brain. The fluid was compressing his brain outwards towards his skull and he must have had some incredible headaches that he could not tell me about. I was told that this type of condition was very rare but I wonder how many dogs are put down for sudden attacks or odd behaviour without anyone looking for a cause. Not many people will go through the whole autopsy, pathology route looking for an answer because the whole scenario is just so distressing. Since losing my boy I have heard of a couple of other dogs suffering similar fates from mould spores being inhaled and causing infections and tumours in the brain. It is a devastating way to lose a young healthy dog but I would have preferred to have known and had my dog pts sleep before I was attacked. I would suggest that the dog in question here is seen by a veterinary neurologist asap. Diagnostic techniques are more ready available and affordable now than they were ten years ago when I lost my dog. I hope I am wrong about this dog but a lot about it sounds very familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaS Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Thank you very much for your advice and posts.Appreciate it. He has gone outside twice briefly to go to the toilet.Had a little cautious sniff and snuck back in.I was very relieved. I suspect he may have snuck out and gone yesterday at some stage. He walked cautiously around the yard for aprox 5 min or so each time and I just pretended not to notice and hung washing out.I am leaving door open. He was very bouncy and happy earlier today.Now aloof and strange again. He does resource guard food& toys sometimes, not always but I just take them off him if he gets snippy or I sense it is is going to be an issue with my 3. I agree it needs to be addressed and a vets second opinion.Her parents have a long history with their local vet and believe him to be great.They have been going to him 20+ years with all the family pets.I am not sure if he saw him recently or another vet as friend has moved hour + from parents. Persephone I haven't taken him out as he freaks as soon as you pick lead up.She asked me not to walk him as she has trying been everyday and he will not move and will sit.She has resorted to dragging him. She told me he has been very difficult on walks and seems scared even of falling leaves,small lizards, plastic bags etc. She is at a complete loss as to why.That is why I agree it is most likely a health issue. Also, he gets on with most dogs but not all.Can be a rough player and not always the best at reading doggy body language. I did think I would try to take him out but she was very against it-requested that I don't. Usually my dog Bax and him will play to point of exhaustion and run around for hours but Jo isn't interested in playing,again this to me shows something is up with him. He is aprox 4-6 years old.This is a guess as he is a rescue from the pound and she has had him aprox 2.5 years I'd say.Nothing is known of his past. He is always inside when she is at work during the day for last 6mths or so.He has never been left outside even at her parents place as the mum is always home.She moved from parents place 6 mths or so. I will keep close eye on him and if this continues will call the parents to discuss-they are next of kin They will worry and panic that is why haven't called them yet.I will call them calmly& not worry them to discuss and ask about the behaviour and vets etc tomorrow. He still has spurts of activity and loves his food &is drinking normally but the withdrawing is a worry. He has jumped onto my lap a few times and had a little snooze and snuggle on my bed today with me. He still gets very excited if someone visits or there is a feed coming. He is a lovely little dog and would like to work it out.I will be very careful and monitor him.This is one of the times you wish they could talk. Thanks again. Edited January 12, 2010 by MelissaS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hmm.. Ok.Would you be able to get a couple of photos of him when he's happy/playing...then when you do put a leash on him,maybe? Body language may be a useful tool for the vet...and interesting for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaS Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) Hmm..Ok.Would you be able to get a couple of photos of him when he's happy/playing...then when you do put a leash on him,maybe? Body language may be a useful tool for the vet...and interesting for us I will try to get photos. I am on dial-up and only have my phone but I will do what I can. When he is happy/playing his bum never stops wriggling and he prances &has a smile from ear to ear.When trying to walk him head goes down eyes look up at you totally miserable.Digs his feet into ground. It's the end of the world He's taken himself out a few times quickly to go to the toilet and once when my dogs were playing in yard he went to investigate .Bolts in and out. He and Bax had a big play inside and he's now taken to the bathroom.One reason I think is he is smart as it is cooler in there also. Spoke to owner tonight and she has asked if it continues to give her parents a call and they will come and get him.She feels really strongly it's a way for him to get his own way. She said when he does it on walks as soon as she gives in to go home he is normal walks normally again and is enthusiastic.She said her vet believes it's behavioural. Also won't walk at parents and will only go outside when you tell him that he can go fishing as he loves the river.When you say fishing there is no prob and he rushes to the water.Won't move for a walk or toilet but fishing and he can't get out the door fast enough.I have no river here thou so cannot bribe him with that LOL. She will also book an appointment with Steve from K9 force as well as vet when she is back. Edited January 12, 2010 by MelissaS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaS Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hate to mention it but this could be a serious neurological problem. Acting weird can be an indicator of brain tumour of inflammation. Having had a dog suffer bacterial meningitis followed by the brain damage it caused I would be very careful with this dog. My dog had no "health" symptoms at all except a little intermittent lameness in one leg but was acting strange over several months. Nothing that made alarm bells ring but odd things like hiding under his bed, barking in the car, asking to be let out to bark at one spot on the fence in the middle of the night. He was still eating, was obedient and looked healthy.Vets and Chiro's were consulted about his leg and none of us worked out anything wrong with it or that it could all be in his head. Unfortunately, when I gave him a hug one night, he let out a scream of intense pain and attacked me quite badly. Moments later he was looking at me trying to work out what happened. I am sure he had no idea he had caused my injuries. After a long talk with the vet we decided whatever was wrong he was suffering, and would be dangerous to handle for intense veterinary work. Even if we found a cause he would not be able to tell us if he was feeling better after treatment. We opted to pts three days after the attack and find out what happened. The vet's autopsy revealed greatly increased fluid pressure in the brain but nothing at all wrong with the lame leg. Pathology on the brain showed extensive irrepairable brain damage with scar tissue from (probably bacterial) meningitis that was obstructing the drainage of the fluid around the brain. The fluid was compressing his brain outwards towards his skull and he must have had some incredible headaches that he could not tell me about. I was told that this type of condition was very rare but I wonder how many dogs are put down for sudden attacks or odd behaviour without anyone looking for a cause. Not many people will go through the whole autopsy, pathology route looking for an answer because the whole scenario is just so distressing. Since losing my boy I have heard of a couple of other dogs suffering similar fates from mould spores being inhaled and causing infections and tumours in the brain. It is a devastating way to lose a young healthy dog but I would have preferred to have known and had my dog pts sleep before I was attacked. I would suggest that the dog in question here is seen by a veterinary neurologist asap. Diagnostic techniques are more ready available and affordable now than they were ten years ago when I lost my dog. I hope I am wrong about this dog but a lot about it sounds very familiar. dancinbcs I am so sorry this happened to you. It sounds so awful.Very heartbreaking. I did mention the above to the owner when she called tonight.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Doesnt sound like a stubborn dog. I would be getting eyes & hearing checked & certainly seeking another opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ok- so it is thought to be a way of getting his own way... I beg to differ.. a dog/person in pain will often still respond well if the motivation is high enough People with bad flu/broken leg... will still often go to work, or somewhere they have been wanting to go... We have working sheepdogs- I have seen them dash to work with painful injuries..... which when resting see them looking extremely uncomfortable.. So - the 'fishing' lure may temporarily override the discomfort/fear he is feeling.... Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaS Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) Persephone I agree. I have told the owner all of this. She will take him to the vet and Steve at K9 force when she is back. Today he has been very active and gone out several times on his own and played a lot with my dogs. Don't get me wrong I care a lot about him but he is not my dog.She wishes to wait until she gets back. Today he behaved completely normally, I know this means he may still have a health issue but I feel I must obey owners wishes-Especially if he is eating,drinking,playing and toileting normally which he is now. He was bouncy and had no issues going outside. I know that dogs have a high pain threshold and it may be coming and going. I know there may still be a serious problem . Believe me I WILL drum all of this into the owner when she returns.I will tell her it may be a SERIOUS health problem even thou she thinks it isn't. She is a good owner and loves him very much- she will do the right thing.She is concerned but believes it's behavioural. This is not what I would necessarily do if he was my dog, but he isn't and my 3 dogs are a different story as all decisions regarding them are my call. She is a good owner but we have different views and opinions. He is safe and well fed and looked after until she gets back. I will monitor him.I care a lot about him and if he declines I will call her kin as she requested. I know this will most likely seem like I am not doing enough but at the moment it is all I can do. I feel like I am letting him down but in the interim of him being here I will do best I can and keep serious eye on him and any change. My friend will see it as a massive breach of our friendship if I do more without her consent-he is not my dog. She takes this very seriously.It would cause BIG problems. Thanks again for advice.I really have taken it in and will again pass it on. Edited January 13, 2010 by MelissaS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaS Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 I was just thinking of where a physical injury affected a dogs mood and behaviour. friend of mine adopted a lovely dog from a rescue group. When she got him home his behaviour at times was strange and he got into a fight with a few different dogs and she could not read his moods. The short version is- he got into a fight with a dog and got a muzzling order put on him and my friend was stressed beyond belief. After talking to rescue group she returned him.She only had him about 6 weeks but it was very stressful for her.She ended up being scared of him and what he may do. Anyway, on returning to rescue he got sick and vet discovered he had been shot and the bullet had never been removed and he a serious long term injury to his penis.Friend said it was broken?! Not sure if that is possible, but point was he had painful problem. These injuries happened long before he went into rescue and for some reason were never picked up on.He did have a long full coat & apparently all you could feel was a little bump. My friend felt dreadful.It made her so sad.It also explained the moods and dog fights when they were sniffing around his genitals. He was a really lovely dog but must have been in a lot of pain & discomfort.She didn't know him well enough to think there was anything physically wrong with him. She still cries if you mention it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 (edited) It really does sound more and more like a pain issue, maybe one that is causing bad habits to develop. I can see why his owner might think it is behavioural what with the home direction walk being eager etc. I know when I have back pain and MUST lie down, the going towards the bed/couch is a lot faster than the getting up & moving away bit, might be something the same here. I really feel for you wanting to have the dog looked at NOW, but having to wait until his owner returns. I can also see that unless new symptoms appear, your hands really are tied on that. Just let him go at his own pace, if nothing else he will pick up some confidence that no-one will force him to do stuff that might be painful. EF typos. Edited January 13, 2010 by RuralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Just to add - we picked up our girls lymphoma because of behavioural changes - she developed anxiety and phobias - when I researched I found this was a not uncommon symptom. Good luck with the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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