A Few Little Questions / Concerns / Queries...

[FranVT]

First of all, I must say isn't it amazing how different puppies really do have completely different little personalities and habits! Atlas was such a snuggly loving boy and Luuka isn't really, she's a happy little thing but she doesn't want to be cuddled too much (she is a fair bit furrier lol) and she doesn't want to be in our bed she is happiest sleeping on the floor on her tummy. She is also hungry all the time, I'm feeding her adequately I'm sure (as per the breeder's feeding schedule) but she is just food obsessed! This is good though it means she has been very easy to do some basic training with. She can sit, shake hands and beg on command. She has been easy to toilet train, Atlas was much harder, but she is happier if she can go outside and wee in the grass.

So I'm attempting to teach her to stand and drop. She is really not grasping stand, she just sits automatically, I hold her up under her tummy and praise but she doesn't appear to be grasping it! Do I just persist? I don't make the training sessions very long, a minute or so at most, I don't want to overload her, and I do try to make it as fun as possible and reward positively at each good turn.

With drop, even with guiding her nose down following food from a sit, she won't drop from a sit she only wants to stand up and bend her neck down to get the food. Any tips here? I try to gently guide her down but I really don't want to hurt her even accidentally, she is just a little puppy under all that fluff!

She is also very anti the lead. My breeder gave me this weird looking martingale, I will try to find a pic hang on...

So I slip it over her head and just let her walk around with it, and she tries to eat it, and when I try to actually have her on the lead and have her walk with me she yelps and cries so I don't want to negatively reinforce anything, I'm a tad lost with how to handle it because Atlas was fine he couldn't have cared less about the lead and he was also quite a bit more robust

Apart from these little things she is a delight, she is such a water baby, she loves being in the clam pool and in puddles! We've had a lot of rain here and she likes nothing better than a nap on the top step in the rain! She has been digging little holes in the mud, should we be filling these in with her poo? I have heard that stops digging ... She gets along great with Atlas, I thought I'd need to take her away from him to give her a break but it's actually him that needs breaks from her! He is faultlessly patient with her, when they play sometimes she yelps but the couple of times I've been watching it's either because he's accidentally trodden on her or he is not even touching her! If I think it's getting too rough I separate them for awhile and they seem to get the message because when I reunite them they don't go at it again for awhile.

In return for being incredibly patient and reading through that drivel, here's some pics! Sorry they're not very good, my iPhone takes AWFUL pics inside.

[lappiemum]

Hi Fran-

There is a trick to teaching lead training - puppies do need to be taught to walk on a lead, and lappies are quite smart, so they will know when it goes on! LOL Sohvi loves her lead now, and got it very quickly, but I did have to teach her aswell - the trick is to never pull. Start by putting the lead on her, praising her as you do, and when its on, call her to you. If she coems, lots and lots of praise (make a real fuss!); if she backs away or carries on, never pull back - just hold it steady, and continue to encourage her to come to you. You say she is food orientated, so use a bait to start with if you want.

Training must be gentle, not go for long each time (but repeat often) and above all, be fun and positive. Gentle corrections, with food as a reward, and yes, be persisitant. Don't go for longer than a 3 or 4 mins max each session, and give her lots of praise. If you want her to stand, guide her into that position and reward her for it - Sohvi is also a sitter, but we are getting the stand part now.

If you want, PM me your number and I'll give you a call.

Edited January 11, 2010 by lappiemum

[FranVT]

Cooool lm! Thanks so much! See this is why DOL is awesome - all that stuff should be relatively obvious but I get so worried and flustered that I can't see the obvious things! I would love to have a chat later, I should finish work around 6pm, sometime after that?

[lappiemum]

Yep, just send me your number and i'll give you a call tonight.

[FranVT]

Thanks heaps!

Any more info / tips from others is totally welcome also!

[Gretel]

I have dabbled just a teeny bit with the clicker and found it wonderful for getting a pup happy on lead. When I first put Jersey on lead she was not at all happy but in just a couple of days she was walking happily. I am a clicker convert First of all I taught her that 'click' means treat. Just a few times a day I'd have a little session of click and treat. Then I put the lead on her and clicked and treated. So far lead = click and treat so that was good and she was quite happy. We did this a few times the first day. Next stage I held the lead and as soon as she took a step she got a click and treat. Each time I'd expect her to go a little further for her click and treat. I found she was so busy trying to get me to click and treat she wasn't worrying about the lead at all. It was so easy

[hilaryo]

We also never pull them along on the lead.

We take ours for a walk up the street (just a short distance) with another adult dog walking in front. You need 2 people obviously LOL. That way they start out wanting to go forward.

Beautiful puppy!

[FranVT]

Gretel I am too uncoordinated for clicking I tried it with Atlas and I think he was more bewildered than anything, watching me fumble with treats and clickers and whatever else I'd rather use a marking word like "yes!", do you think that works just as well or not?

I definitely don't want to pull her, I don't want her to think the lead is a punishment.

[megan_]

Gretel I am too uncoordinated for clicking I tried it with Atlas and I think he was more bewildered than anything, watching me fumble with treats and clickers and whatever else I'd rather use a marking word like "yes!", do you think that works just as well or not?

I definitely don't want to pull her, I don't want her to think the lead is a punishment.

I am also way too unco to click - so instead of a click I just say "yes" in a very neutral tone.

[Nekhbet]

I would be using a flat collar and a really light lead instead of something that tightens at the moment. She just might find it weird that the lead tightens as it pulls

As for the stand etc, take it easy. The pup is only 3 months old! Slowly but surely she'll get it

I think most of all relax, you seem to be worrying an aweful lot pups are pretty robust little creatures dont be afraid to help the pup into a drop, stand etc and just keep repeating until it clicks.

[lappiemum]

I don't use a clicker either - too much for me to remember (clicker, treat, command, praise.....I get confused more than the pup!). Treat and happy praise usually does it for me.

have you tried the recall game yet? its lots of fun - you hide in another room and call your puppy - when they come running to find you, you make a big happy fuss (and treat if you like). We've played it many times, and Sohvi thinks whenever we call her its going to be fun...(except for that bath thing....)LOL

[FranVT]

I would be using a flat collar and a really light lead instead of something that tightens at the moment. She just might find it weird that the lead tightens as it pulls

As for the stand etc, take it easy. The pup is only 3 months old! Slowly but surely she'll get it

I think most of all relax, you seem to be worrying an aweful lot pups are pretty robust little creatures dont be afraid to help the pup into a drop, stand etc and just keep repeating until it clicks.

Hehe you are right I am freaking out over nothing probably! I just don't want to have a repeat of Atlas' bad behaviour / stubbornness / not listening to us, it was totally our fault, I just want to make sure we're doing the right things The stand thing is mostly because I plan to show her a little bit.

I don't use a clicker either - too much for me to remember (clicker, treat, command, praise.....I get confused more than the pup!). Treat and happy praise usually does it for me.

have you tried the recall game yet? its lots of fun - you hide in another room and call your puppy - when they come running to find you, you make a big happy fuss (and treat if you like). We've played it many times, and Sohvi thinks whenever we call her its going to be fun...(except for that bath thing....)LOL

I am so going to play that game! She will love it! She likes to hide under our bed and then run out and attack our feet as we walk past! She is a cheeky bugger. She doesn't mind being bathed either. She doesn't love it, but she doesn't particularly mind. She really, really, really hates the hairdryer though

[megan_]

I have heard a lot of "training" people that stand is very had to teach. Maybe just drop it and try again in a month or two?

[FranVT]

Okay

Atlas is great at stand - however - I believe it is not actually "stand", it is "not sit"

Oops that didn't really make sense. It's more like when I stop and he's supposed to automatically sit, but he doesn't, and I say stand and then he doesn't sit, that equals stand? Lol oh forget it it kind of makes sense in my head though

Edited January 11, 2010 by FranCQ

[luvsdogs]

I think you are expecting too much in such a short time. I would get her used to a small collar 1st b4 attaching the lead. I had a lot of trouble getting April used to the lead. I eventually encouraged her like mad & rewarded when she made baby steps.

Most dogs sit when teaching stand, because sit is usually the 1st thing taught. Lure her into the stand & reward the instant she's on all 4s'. You can gradually increase the time b4 rewarding. You want her to do it on her own without touching her or in the case of drop, don't push her into position. There are a number of ways to get them to drop. Either lure with food down to floor at her feet & out along the ground, or lure in front of feet & between her front legs under her chest with a wall behind her to help prevent standing. Or you can sit on the ground with one leg extended with the other knee slightly bent & lure her under your knee so she has to crouch to go under.

I also read that you have taught her to beg, do you meat sit up/ sit pretty on hind legs? If this is the case I would not do this until she is 12 mths old. It puts too much strain on puppies backs & is no good for developing spines.

She's very cute, & how quick has the time gone since you 1st were talking about getting her?

[FranVT]

I think you are expecting too much in such a short time. I would get her used to a small collar 1st b4 attaching the lead. I had a lot of trouble getting April used to the lead. I eventually encouraged her like mad & rewarded when she made baby steps.

Most dogs sit when teaching stand, because sit is usually the 1st thing taught. Lure her into the stand & reward the instant she's on all 4s'. You can gradually increase the time b4 rewarding. You want her to do it on her own without touching her or in the case of drop, don't push her into position. There are a number of ways to get them to drop. Either lure with food down to floor at her feet & out along the ground, or lure in front of feet & between her front legs under her chest with a wall behind her to help prevent standing. Or you can sit on the ground with one leg extended with the other knee slightly bent & lure her under your knee so she has to crouch to go under.

I also read that you have taught her to beg, do you meat sit up/ sit pretty on hind legs? If this is the case I would not do this until she is 12 mths old. It puts too much strain on puppies backs & is no good for developing spines.

She's very cute, & how quick has the time gone since you 1st were talking about getting her?

I know it's gone sooo quickly I can hardly believe it.

I did not think of beg being bad for her, of course it would be now that I'm thinking about it, I will stop doing it! It is one that we haven't really been doing much of anyway, we've been doing lots of sit, shake, come etc. I've been doing 2 sessions of a minute or so each day, the rest has been pure play / rest / eat! But yes you are probably right I am expecting too much. Like I mentioned earlier I just want to get it right from the beginning this time

She is so different to Atlas, he was a big sook, she is much more capable. When I got her she couldn't go up stairs, so I left her and At in the yard while I mopped the floors but 5 mins later there she was behind me - she taught herself to go up! I know this is bad so I don't let her run up and down, I know it's bad for her back, I carry her whenever I can but she does go down and back up to wee sometimes. And she always wants to jump off the couch and bed but I don't let her do that either, and I don't let her jump up of course. Not that she could!

[Gretel]

Gretel I am too uncoordinated for clicking I tried it with Atlas and I think he was more bewildered than anything, watching me fumble with treats and clickers and whatever else :rolleyes: I'd rather use a marking word like "yes!", do you think that works just as well or not?

I definitely don't want to pull her, I don't want her to think the lead is a punishment.

Yes I used to feel that way but I find it's not as hard as I first made it out to be I tried all my usual things when I was trying to teach Bree to walk on lead and nothing worked for me until I tried the clicker and then it's like a little switch went off in her head and she was watching me! It made all the difference with Bree and then when I struck a hurdle with her daughter I tried it and got wonderful results again I did used to use a word instead of a click but I found the click much more definite.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Gretel

[all that glitters]

I don't use a clicker either - too much for me to remember (clicker, treat, command, praise.....I get confused more than the pup!). Treat and happy praise usually does it for me.

have you tried the recall game yet? its lots of fun - you hide in another room and call your puppy - when they come running to find you, you make a big happy fuss (and treat if you like). We've played it many times, and Sohvi thinks whenever we call her its going to be fun...(except for that bath thing....)LOL

Ohh yes the hide and seek is GREAT!!! We did this with Shyla as a pup and still do it nearly every day I have run out of hiding spots now though and she finds me, but as soon as we say WHERES MUM? or WHERES DAD? she stops what shes doing and RACES around looking for us with real intent on finding us, and when she does we praise and clap and act like idiots lol, its fun!

[kiesha09]

With my two I put the lead on at home and just let them drag it around for a while (obviously 100% supervised). I probably did this a couple of times a day for a week so that they were used to it. Then when teaching them to walk with it I picked up the lead and lured them up and down my hallway, frequently treating.

[dancinbcs]

After spending 4 months teaching my first Border collie to walk on a lead I have worked out a much easier training method for puppies over the years. By ten weeks my babies can stand, sit, drop, heel on lead, sit in front and shake hands (just for fun).

I do start from 4 weeks stacking them and teaching the word stand. Stand is the hardest command and should always be taught first. You can start teaching it by stacking her on a table now, placing her in position, rewarding and telling her to stand. Then when she is on the ground use bait to lure her forward, keep it in front and not above her nose, stop, tell her stand and reward before she has a chance to sit. Lure her foreward again and repeat two or three times.

For drop, sit on the floor with your knees up forming a tunnel. Lure her under your legs with bait and tell her to drop as her belly hits the ground to enable her to crawl under your legs. Again repeat two or three times.

Do not tell her to sit for at least a week while teaching the drop and the stand, then only do one sit for every three stands and two drops. Any dog can sit so it is not something that needs constant repetition. Train several times a day for just a minute or so. Sometimes just make it one command, praise and give a release word.

To get her to walk on a lead teach heel without the lead in the yard using bait to encourage her to walk at your side. Reward randomly when she concentrates and walks closely. Practice for one minute several times a day. Anything from a few steps to the width of the yard, then progress to circles and turns. Once you have her attention and she seems to get the idea that heel means walk on my left side, put the lead on, that the breeder provided, and start again with the one minute/ few steps heeling with the lead loose. The idea is to repeat a familiar exercise with the lead hanging around her neck. She will probably sit and scratch at the lead but just keep enticing her with the bait and reward when she forgets about the lead. After a few days put a tiny bit of pressure on the lead and release and reward while continuing to walk forward. Gradually put a little more pressure on the lead and reward her if she yields to it. Also practice come on the lead using it to just give a little tug to get her started and use food to lure her in. This helps reinforce the idea that any pressure on the lead means to move in that direction.

I have never had a puppy I could let drag a lead around. They all just stop and chew it so that has never been an option. The method I use simply teaches them everything without a lead and then teaches them to do these things with a lead on. The lead is never used to drag them along and they never get a chance to pull. My 9 year old girl who has been used a lot as a junior handler show dog is great for teaching kids to work a dog on a loose lead. She will work with them and follow them anywhere in the ring but if they tighten the lead and pull, she just stops. In her whole life she has never needed a lead to be tightened on her to get her to do something. A lead should be a safety device not something used to drag a dog around with.