Just Wants To Play

[Cuchulain]

Max, my 4 month-old Ridgeback has been coming along well I thought. When we are on our own, with no other dogs present, he is obedient and mostly well-behaved. He walks around the block (about 10 minutes) mostly on a loose lead - the first minute or 2 he is very bouncy and sometimes pulls but he soon settles down and walks nicely. (Until there's an irresistable smell that simply has to be investigated ) He will sit and down. He does TOT for his food and we have made almost a minute now before I release him.

However, when he sees another dog he become impossible, he pulls on the lead and seems to become deaf. His entire being is focused on the other dog/s and nothing else matters. Today at dog school I was so embarrassed because it was like I had done no work with him at all over the holidays, he just wanted to play.

When we are out walking and he sees another dog and begins to pull - what should I be doing? How do I deal with this issue? He is only 4 months old and he could pull me off my feet if he really tried. (I have a Menierre's disease and my sense of balance is not what it should be which doesn't help the situation.)

It has been mentioned in another thread that puppy schools where off-lead play is encouraged can cause this and other problems - at the puppy school we attended off-lead play was a big thing and a lot of our time was spent with the puppies off-lead playing. They said it was socialisation and it was very important so that the dogs didn't become dog-aggressive. I'm now having my doubts about this.

What am I doing wrong? What have I done wrong in the past? But most of all how do I fix this?

[Daisy]

Cuchulain I will be interested to see responses to your post as I have the same problem with my foster dog Hugo! he generally walks nicely on lead, but as soon as he sees another dog he nearly pulls my arm off and it is almost impossible to get his attention

(My OH has Menierre's disease too )

[Gretel]

My 4 month old pups are just the same but it's with people they go crazy trying to get to them Mine are small so not going to cause me any drama but sounds like you need to get Max sorted before he gets too much bigger. Might be a good idea to post this in the training thread too

[Serket]

Gypsy attended two puppy schools (yes, two ) both of which did training broken up by short sessions of off-leash playing.

For a while after that she clearly had a mental association of other dogs = PLAY TIME!!! and would try to get them to play with her as soon as she saw them.

She still loves other dogs, but she's grown up enough now that if they don't want to play, she doesn't pester them, and while we're at obedience, she gives me 100% focus when I ask her to, but when we're sitting down waiting our turn and just talking etc, I let her play with her friends in the class (on-lead) they just play bitey face and wrestle on the spot. I think it's good as it stops the obedience classes from becoming too boring (which they would be for her otherwise).

I did a lot of work at home on sit/stay/drop/recall/look at me/etc, and also at our first obedience classes we had a lot of space to work away from other dogs - so if your dog was too interested in other dogs, you could set up 10m away and work on getting your dogs focus there, and then move closer as they got better - that might be something you can try?

Also, what are you walking Max with? Try one of those no-pull harnesses until you can get him to calm down when he sees other dogs - you don't want to run the risk of him pulling you over! (my 22kg puppy could pull me over if she catches me off balance/unexpectedly)

Anyway, personally I do think the off-lead play was important, and that socialising with other dogs is important, as both my parents' dog and my in law's dog were never allowed to play with other dogs (despite attending obedience school with no play time), and are very anti-social towards other dogs now.

Oh, one more thing - what training treats do you use? It's got to be something REALLY good in a high distraction environment. I use meat, bits of fruit (I've got a weird dog), cut up sausage, those 4legs dog food ball things cut into smaller pieces, etc.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Serket

[Cosmolo]

Classically condition a 'watch' command- at home, before using it anywhere else- give the word and immediately reward with something very high value. In the meantime when on walks, if he pulls, change direction and move further away from the dog- try to do this before he hits the very end of the lead though.

Puppy schools that allow dogs to play off lead WITHOUT teaching them to stop, calm and focus on their owners can cause problems but its a fine line- we want social dogs but we also want dogs that don't think other dogs are the BEST thing in the world. What did they suggest you do at training? What do you walk him on- normal collar?

[JudyG]

Can't really help but wanted to say my puppy (also just turned 4 months) is exactly the same. She is an angel at home then gets so excited at puppy class. We start the obedience class tonight after the xmas break so I will see how she goes. I think to a certain extent they will grow out of it a bit as the novelty of other dogs wears off??

[poodlefan]

The first thing to remember is never to reward this behaviour by allowing your dog to pull you towards the others.. change direction if you have to.

As Erny says, teaching a focus word is important.. "watch me" or even reward the dog for looking at you when you say his name.

When you walk, insist that puppy goes where you go, not vice versa.. and never let him tow you to anything.

And work on that loose lead without distractions, getting slowly closer to dogs.

Frankly, I find it easier never to allow my dogs to greet others on lead when I'm out walking if I can avoid it. They don't look for encounters then.

Edited January 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[Cuchulain]

I use a training collar (at least that is what they are called over here). It is a webbing strip joined with a short section of chain and the lead is attached to the chain. It looks like a modified choker chain. It was sent down with him from the breeder and is what she uses on her adult dogs. This is puppy version and he has just about out-grown it.

Kim didn't really say how to handle the "no-ears, only want to play" thing but she did suggest changing direction when he pulls.

Focus/watch me...I have been working on this at home. I normally reward him for looking at me when I say his name. I have been working on holding the eye contact for longer and longer periods and at home we can get 10 or 12 seconds but not where there are other dogs.

I use a variety of rewards. Most commonly I have in my pocket Montego/Beeno/Eukanuba treats which I break into small pieces and I try to reward every time he does something correctly. At dog school I use vienna sausage or dried sausage (droe wors) or even biltong (jerky) but I find the last 2 cause problems for the other dog owners as then I have all the pups in class disctracted

Max comes to work with me and our day is fairly structured. We walk before work, 10 minutes around the block with a little training on the walk. During the course of the day, between calls and work in the workshop I will try and fit in 10 or 15 minutes of training in 3 or 4 minute sessions, focusing on sit, down, and stay. In the afternoon, after work, we either go down to the beach or if that isn't an option we go down to the vet and walk around their block as it is a safe place with no loose dogs

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will be stricter on our morning walks and will change direction immediately he pulls. I'll keep you posted on our progress.

EFS

Edited January 11, 2010 by Cuchulain

[poodlefan]

I can only speak for my dogs but I find it relatively easy to retain their focus when I have a handful of roast chicken.

[Cuchulain]

Not even I get roast chicken Poodlefan!

OK, I can see that having Max is going to change my eating habits too and that I'm going to have to learn to cook!

[poodlefan]

Not even I get roast chicken Poodlefan!

OK, I can see that having Max is going to change my eating habits too and that I'm going to have to learn to cook!

Woolworths is your friend. They have roast chooks. You can have some and make up some treat bags. Store them in the freezer.

My dogs also enjoy devon, cabanossi and cheese.

Edited January 11, 2010 by poodlefan

[Cosmolo]

Did you mean me instead of Erny PF

[flux]

Just want to add that I have this problem, except jazz was brilliant on the lead at first until seeing a dog, and now she just pulls all the time and looks forwards to seeing other dogs. Very frustrating, we tried taking little pieces of cheese with us during the walk, but other dogs are just too interesting. I'm going to hit up the butcher tomorrow.

Hopefully I'm not taking over the focus of this forum and that my next question will be adding to it; with regards to "walking the other way" when they pull (this might seem a stupid question) but we are usually heading to an oval to allow her to let off some steam, would you all go so far (if the dog is pulling on the lead) to completely turn around and just walk around the block instead (a much shorter walk?). I always get torn between "well she doesn't seem to be getting a decent walk now" and maybe if "she ran off some energy she wouldn't pull so much" am I being completely sucked in by my puppy? I hate to admit it but I also feel "bad" for not letting her meet other dogs (when appropriate) and kind of think "she's just a puppy, she probably should be meeting other dogs than walking nicely" argh i can't believe I just typed that, I think I just solved that one for myself. I guess meeting dogs at puppy school is a good time for that, and not on walks.

Great topic, it's been really useful to read, and Serket I LOVE the description of "bitey face"

Edited January 12, 2010 by Flux

[Cosmolo]

I wouldn't use a high value reward to try to outweigh the distraction- if you condition a response to a look command before using it you won't have to have your reward 'competing' with anything else

[Cuchulain]

OK, a couple more questions if you don't mind.

Changing direction - will a right/left turn do or do you mean a full 180?

Look command? Would that be what I've been taught at class? Get him to sit and make eye contact? Uhm... damn, I'm not good at words sometimes. Let me try that again. I call him and he comes and sits at my feet facing me, looking at me. He will hold the eye contact for about 30 seconds at the moment BUT that is at home with no distractions. If one of the cats moves - his eyes immediately go to the movement. I've also been holding a treat in each hand with my arms out sideways at shoulder height, saying "Max focus" and he will make eye contact and hold it without looking at my hands to see where the treat is. We can hold this for about 25/30 seconds at home.

Thanks for the help and advice so far. We've had 2 days of angelic behaviour so I'm about due for a difficult one now.

[corvus]

Check out Leslie McDevitt's "Look At That!" game. I love it! I have this social butterfly of a dog who it is working brilliantly with. Everyone who's tried "Look At That!" loves it.

Aside from that, lots and lots of conditioning. The more you practice things in low distraction evironments, the easier they are for a dog in more distracting environments.

[Tilly]

MY GSD boy has the same issues ... other dogs are play object to him. I have found since starting the "Really Reliable Recall" training with him that I can get his attention more easierly and he has calmed down a lot.

He still has silly moments but if saying his name doesn't turn his attention back to me then I walk briskly in different directions turning left, right, doing about turns etc so he is forced to focus on me and pay attention ... and then he tends to behave himself.

[Aidan]

I wouldn't use a high value reward to try to outweigh the distraction- if you condition a response to a look command before using it you won't have to have your reward 'competing' with anything else

[Cuchulain]

Thanks guys, I had a couple of near perfect days and I've just been through 2 days of hell. It seems he is now selectively deaf and only listens if he feels like it.

A couple more questions if you don't mind...What is clicker training? How does it work? What do you use it for? I've Googled it and just got totally confused. Please could somebody spell it out in words of one syllable? I'm sorry if I'm thick but I'm new to all this and I didn't find anything simple enough to grasp (OK, I'll admit it today probably wasn't the best day to try and research something, but let's not go there if you don't mind!)

[Cosmolo]

Clicker training is a specific marker that tells the dog a reward is coming. It needs to be conditioned first, ie click/ treat/ click/ treat so the dog understand what it is and you then use it to mark behaviours you like. Same can be done with a verbal marker word.

Have you conditioned a focus word as yet?