superminty Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Cash At the beach (awaiting tennis ball) Working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I think it can be misleading to try and characterise a dog in drive with a specific kind of body language. Breed features will play a part as will what the dog is reacting to. All of these dogs are "in drive". They are not all in the same drive though. Edited January 11, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 I can't keep up with this thread anymore! Yeah, but Dogdude, anything a dog is feeling, anticipating, or intending is evident in its body language. Yes, but we can't "see" what the dog is thinking, or see what conditioning has gone into a dog to want the prey item so badly. You could of course make an educated guess,based on previous experiences training with other methods, but without knowing anything about how it was trained, then a guess is all it would be. Maybe if you grab a Balabanov dvd or something, you may see a difference in the dogs mindset A guess is all it ever can be, but the beauty of body language is that it's largely universal. PF makes a good point about breed differences, but the essentials are still there, as you can see in each picture or video. The ears are always up and forward, even when they can't physically do up, the eyes are always very focused and you can totally see a correlation between how focused and tight the face is and how fast the dog moves. The tail is generally up, and I fancy you can see how serious/aroused the dog is by how stiff their tail is. And the body, always tensed, but to varying degrees depending on how serious or aroused the dog is. I think it's a moot point how a dog got to where it's at with drive. What you see is true. It's going to be somewhere on the continuum and it's not rocket science to know what a dog at the bottom looks like and what a dog at the top looks like. It's the combination of arousal and self control that is important, and that's pretty obvious in the way the dog moves and how intense they are. I loved Diva's photos of her dogs coursing. That first shot especially really shows how intense a dog can get. Not only in the body but the face. Keshwar's contributions were also particularly nice. Not sure about MonElite's "drive intiation". Looks like a relaxed dog to me. Nekhbet's tricky medium drive was interesting. Dog looked alert to me, the body was not as relaxed as Kivi in his alert-but-at-ease photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I think it's a moot point how a dog got to where it's at with drive. What you see is true. It's going to be somewhere on the continuum and it's not rocket science to know what a dog at the bottom looks like and what a dog at the top looks like. It's the combination of arousal and self control that is important, and that's pretty obvious in the way the dog moves and how intense they are. I loved Diva's photos of her dogs coursing. That first shot especially really shows how intense a dog can get. Not only in the body but the face. I remember saying a similar thing to you not too long ago (that it's not how the dog gets there, drive is drive, it's the same process) and you vehemently disagreed with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Sleep drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I only have a manual one. Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I think it's a moot point how a dog got to where it's at with drive. What you see is true. It's going to be somewhere on the continuum and it's not rocket science to know what a dog at the bottom looks like and what a dog at the top looks like. It's the combination of arousal and self control that is important, and that's pretty obvious in the way the dog moves and how intense they are. I loved Diva's photos of her dogs coursing. That first shot especially really shows how intense a dog can get. Not only in the body but the face. I remember saying a similar thing to you not too long ago (that it's not how the dog gets there, drive is drive, it's the same process) and you vehemently disagreed with me No, I vehemently disagreed that food drive was the same as prey or play drive. However, how they got there is a moot point when all you are trying to do is identify whether they are "in drive" or not. It's NOT a moot point if you care about which drive you are training in/using as a reward. Which you should, because as we know, not all drives were created equal. Eating a meal ain't the same as playing with a friend. That was what I was so vehement about, and why I was arguing that it did matter which drive you were using even if you were at the same "level" of motivation or arousal. But there's no point discussing anything with you because you routinely ignore what I say and substitute my points with the points you think I'd make and argue against those instead. It makes me very angry and mean-spirited. Bedazzled, I think one of my dogs is currently in "cooling fan" drive. The other one is in "comfy bed" drive. They just work so hard for what they want. Edited to delete a broad assumption. Oops. Edited January 11, 2010 by corvus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) Not sure about MonElite's "drive intiation". Looks like a relaxed dog to me. You couldnt have this dog more tense then in this pic, this is when Im at lure coursig and waiting in line, the lure has just been relased for another dog, mine just spoted it and got all super tense ready to chase. Look what happens next Drive initialisation is when the dog has spoted something and is in the initial stages of drive. but not in full drive (such as chase) Drive has stages - in prey drive you have sight/scent of the prey, stalk, chase and catch My photos showed a dog in the sight and stalk mode and one of the bite in in the chase/catch mode. Edited January 11, 2010 by MonElite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I think it's a moot point how a dog got to where it's at with drive. What you see is true. It's going to be somewhere on the continuum and it's not rocket science to know what a dog at the bottom looks like and what a dog at the top looks like. It's the combination of arousal and self control that is important, and that's pretty obvious in the way the dog moves and how intense they are. I loved Diva's photos of her dogs coursing. That first shot especially really shows how intense a dog can get. Not only in the body but the face. I remember saying a similar thing to you not too long ago (that it's not how the dog gets there, drive is drive, it's the same process) and you vehemently disagreed with me No, I vehemently disagreed that food drive was the same as prey or play drive. However, how they got there is a moot point when all you are trying to do is identify whether they are "in drive" or not. It's NOT a moot point if you care about which drive you are training in/using as a reward. Which you should, because as we know, not all drives were created equal. Eating a meal ain't the same as playing with a friend. That was what I was so vehement about, and why I was arguing that it did matter which drive you were using even if you were at the same "level" of motivation or arousal. But there's no point discussing anything with you because you routinely ignore what I say and substitute my points with the points you think I'd make and argue against those instead. It makes me very angry and mean-spirited. Sure Corvus... it's all me My point was that a dog in food drive and a dog in prey drive can look the same. That ultimately they are still in drive, irregardless of how you got them there. But anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I'd say Abby was in drive here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Love that pic Nik! The expression on her face is priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I'd say Abby was in drive here... LOL - I agree, that pic is priceless. Mind you, she looks as though she is saying something rude. Something along the lines of "OMG!!" except ruder. Edited January 11, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraNik Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Love that pic Nik! The expression on her face is priceless! Yeah, it's my favourite shot of Abby. I owe Woofenpup for letting me train her - she's an absolute joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Great shot Terranik! Makes me wish I wasn't so useless with a camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Thought i'd throw in some drive pics of Oberon. Te first is him on one of his scent obsessed sessions. Its very hard to distract him when he's like this. next is him looking at the chickens. and finally. I was wiggling my foot to get his attention for a photo. he gave the 'caught lip' look. he wanted to kill my foot, but really only for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Does everyone agree that every dog in this thread is "in drive"? I was kind of aiming for a thread in which we had pictures of dogs working "in drive" so folks knew what TID was all about, plus a few in drive but not working level drive for comparison, but it went a bit bananas.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Well it depends on what drive, and whether you're looking for pre cursors to drive etc or just drive peak.. I think still photos are very unreliable in terms of whether something 'is' anything. I have seen a few terrific photos that look like one thing but having been there when it was taken, what actually happened was completely different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Does everyone agree that every dog in this thread is "in drive"? I was kind of aiming for a thread in which we had pictures of dogs working "in drive" so folks knew what TID was all about, plus a few in drive but not working level drive for comparison, but it went a bit bananas.... Still images dont show enough but we had few videos. Id say that your video shows a dog with low prey drive, and as others explained some dogs are just soooooo desperate to get the toy, yours is not really that interested even when you touch him with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 You cant tell if the dog was in drive from a photo, unless you were there, and everyone who took their photo was there, and also posted it so they obviously believe their dog was in drive at that time I posted pics of my dogs in a non working drive (at lure, so therefore not working for me) and of my dog working in drive, in a trailling obedience situation a few pages back This is also a vid of my dog while building drive My OH is doing this work with him, and he is learning the techniques as he goes under the TID program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I agree that still images are really hard to use an examples, which is why I just posted videos instead (however basic they are ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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