Images Of Dogs "in Drive"

[Seita]

Corvus, drive is not defined by just body language alone. As I said in the other thread, its more about the desperation displayed by the dog to satisfy its prey drive. You almost sense the dog would walk over hot coals to acheive it. I have not sensed that before any other form of training.

I am not claiming one method is better than another though, just trying to explain how to spot a dog working in prey drive. There is a controlled desperation evident, one that is not easily distracted.

This is what I see in Annie when I train her in drive – that desperation, she would do absolutely anything to get the ball. The adrenalin is pumping and it takes all her effort to control herself and work before getting the reward. When she is working, it's only me, her and the ball - nothing else exists. For example we've just started recalls and she explodes out of the sit/drop position so fast that she comes barrelling into me (we’re working on that!). TID allows her to achieve a level of intensity that she otherwise wouldn’t.

LOL I used to have the same problem! Love that enthusiasm!!

[dogdude]

Yeah, but Dogdude, anything a dog is feeling, anticipating, or intending is evident in its body language.

Yes, but we can't "see" what the dog is thinking, or see what conditioning has gone into a dog to want the prey item so badly.

You could of course make an educated guess,based on previous experiences training with other methods, but without knowing anything about how it was trained, then a guess is all it would be.

Maybe if you grab a Balabanov dvd or something, you may see a difference in the dogs mindset

[persephone]

"I tawt I saw a puddy tat.

I WANT that puddy tat"

[huski]

Corvus, drive is not defined by just body language alone. As I said in the other thread, its more about the desperation displayed by the dog to satisfy its prey drive. You almost sense the dog would walk over hot coals to acheive it. I have not sensed that before any other form of training.

I am not claiming one method is better than another though, just trying to explain how to spot a dog working in prey drive. There is a controlled desperation evident, one that is not easily distracted.

This is what I see in Annie when I train her in drive – that desperation, she would do absolutely anything to get the ball. The adrenalin is pumping and it takes all her effort to control herself and work before getting the reward. When she is working, it's only me, her and the ball - nothing else exists. For example we've just started recalls and she explodes out of the sit/drop position so fast that she comes barrelling into me (we’re working on that!). TID allows her to achieve a level of intensity that she otherwise wouldn’t.

LOL I used to have the same problem! Love that enthusiasm!!

And as far as problems go, it's a good one to have

[kayla1]

Corvus, drive is not defined by just body language alone. As I said in the other thread, its more about the desperation displayed by the dog to satisfy its prey drive. You almost sense the dog would walk over hot coals to acheive it. I have not sensed that before any other form of training.

I am not claiming one method is better than another though, just trying to explain how to spot a dog working in prey drive. There is a controlled desperation evident, one that is not easily distracted.

This is what I see in Annie when I train her in drive – that desperation, she would do absolutely anything to get the ball. The adrenalin is pumping and it takes all her effort to control herself and work before getting the reward. When she is working, it's only me, her and the ball - nothing else exists. For example we've just started recalls and she explodes out of the sit/drop position so fast that she comes barrelling into me (we’re working on that!). TID allows her to achieve a level of intensity that she otherwise wouldn’t.

LOL I used to have the same problem! Love that enthusiasm!!

And as far as problems go, it's a good one to have

Absolutely - I'm just glad Annie is only 5kg so I've managed to stay on my feet

[ness]

I have often ended up with 13kg of BC flying into my lap. It was funny because I backchained a recall and it was the only time she didn't clean me up. I called her the first time heart in my mouth as she came flying in and at the last second sat in a perfect front position.

[corvus]

I saw a dog move into a little bit of drive (beginnings of), but then flattened out.

The "little bit" was what I was trying to illustrate, if you read my post. This isn't really meant to be an instructional thread about drive so much as a "this is what it looks like" thread, and my purpose in posting Kivi in low level drive was to illustrate low level drive. I wasn't actually looking for criticism, but there you go.

Erik is much more fun. His latest favourite is to leap at the toy when I'm least expecting it (like, walking along with toy tucked in arm pit). He has a way to go yet, but we're having fun getting there.

[Erny]

The "little bit" was what I was trying to illustrate, if you read my post. This isn't really meant to be an instructional thread about drive so much as a "this is what it looks like" thread, and my purpose in posting Kivi in low level drive was to illustrate low level drive. I wasn't actually looking for criticism, but there you go.

And the "low level drive" you are trying to illustrate may well be that Kivi doesn't quite 'get' the exercise, maybe because of how you are structuring it. I delivered my post with the thought of being helpful. But there you go.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Erny

[Nekhbet]

prey

med-getting into high for her

med-high for him ... aye tis a thing to behold

here's one for you ... she was in med drive here ... tricky tricky

and a ferret in high prey drive

[RubyStar]

I went back and read the other "prey" drive thread you linked earlier Seita and I found it interesting that its never recommended to use a ball throw as a prey reward because your some how disconnected from the reward process. Not sure I totally understand the reasoning behind this especially when you are still part of the reward process (well if the dog thinks the game is about returning with the item as fast as it can so it might restart the game rather than running off when the toy is chased after). Very interesting though and I appreciated going back over some of what was contained in that thread.

I've read that too, but using balls as a reward is working well for my dogs.

I'd love more info on why/why not to use balls as a reward if anyone can help? I have two Labradors, one of the most food focused breeds out there (no, really! ) but BOTH will work with a heck of a lot more enthusiasm for their squeaky ball than food. They'd turn themselves inside out for it if they could. If I can use this to my advantage, I want to! I use the balls so far for not only reward, but distraction training. I know the squeaky part is an issue for reward at ringside (big no-no!) but I'd love to find a way to make it work for us for the obedience ring (transfer the value to another toy?) They just go NUTS for it and will do just about anything I ask for it. Outside distractions like other dogs to my social butterflies are practically blocked out by this magical ball

Sorry to kind of float off topic - I don't know enough about drive to participate positively in this thread

Edited January 10, 2010 by RubyStar

[dogdude]

I'd love more info on why/why not to use balls as a reward if anyone can help? I have two Labradors, one of the most food focused breeds out there (no, really! ) but BOTH will work with a heck of a lot more enthusiasm for their squeaky ball than food. They'd turn themselves inside out for it if they could. If I can use this to my advantage, I want to! I use the balls so far for not only reward, but distraction training. I know the squeaky part is an issue for reward at ringside (big no-no!) but I'd love to find a way to make it work for us for the obedience ring (transfer the value to another toy?) They just go NUTS for it and will do just about anything I ask for it. Outside distractions like other dogs to my social butterflies are practically blocked out by this magical ball

One of the main reasons why I would not use one for prey drive training, is because I wouldn't be able to be in a position where I could fully control the game, and vary the levels of how hard I want to make it for the dog to achieve satisfaction. If my dog gave me a half hearted effort in what I required of it, I would not be in a postition to encourage a better effort once the ball is actually thrown away.

If it was on a string like an orbee, it would then be under my full control of the chase part of the game. Its just easier to fine tune the game, and keep drive levels up, and continue to keep the dog interested.

Many dogs will fetch a ball a few times and lose interest, because the game never changes, and they don't have to do anything different to go and get the ball, and interest decreases. If the ball was used in different ways, and only allowed for the dog to catch it (not go get it), when it is showing maximum effort to do so, then the dog is likely to maintain and improve the level of effort next time.

ETA: I can also add the element of tugging to the chase game to give the game even more interest using a string.

Edited January 10, 2010 by dogdude

[Kavik]

Love the lure coursing photos Nekhbet

[kayla1]

Many dogs will fetch a ball a few times and lose interest, because the game never changes, and they don't have to do anything different to go and get the ball, and interest decreases. If the ball was used in different ways, and only allowed for the dog to catch it (not go get it), when it is showing maximum effort to do so, then the dog is likely to maintain and improve the level of effort next time.

Yes it’s not a matter of simply throwing a ball – Steve showed me how I can use the ball in different ways to increase drive or get more control. I tried all kinds of toys and tugs but ended up with the ball as it works best for Annie.

[ness]

Hmmm but if your dog is truely ball driven then the only drop off in attitude/enthusiasm usually is a result of the dog not having enough physical stamina to continue to fetch - whether you have played for to long or what have you. I do find fetch interrupts a training session even more that tugging (and food) though. Just a longer time between repetitions. I tend to confine fetch to a jackpot type reward. We also tug with the ball when she returns or sometimes I throw it up in the air for her to catch. You can vary how you reward with a ball (or something like a frisbee which is easier to use for a tug and fetch).

[kayla1]

Hmmm but if your dog is truely ball driven then the only drop off in attitude/enthusiasm usually is a result of the dog not having enough physical stamina to continue to fetch - whether you have played for to long or what have you.

Two of my dogs are well and truly ball-driven and there is no decrease in drive when working using a ball. For whatever reason the ball just works best for them.

[Diva]

prey

More prey...

I'd call these two high - to see how hard the dog is going look at the flexion she is getting in her back. This is on a lure.

as opposed to this, which was just playing/free running and which I'd class as low/medium

Edited January 10, 2010 by Diva

[ness]

kayla that is what I was saying - if you do get a drop in drive the chances are its because the dogs physical stamina can't keep up and you have played for to long. So you probably aren't pushing your dogs past what they are physically and mentally capable of hence no reason to see a decrease in drive.

ETA. My girl is both fetch (ball/frisbee/anything) and tug driven and would push herself to the point of collapse. The only time I would see a drop in drive is if we have been playing hard and she is reaching the point of physical exhaustion.

Edited January 10, 2010 by ness

[kayla1]

kayla that is what I was saying - if you do get a drop in drive the chances are its because the dogs physical stamina can't keep up and you have played for to long. So you probably aren't pushing your dogs past what they are physically and mentally capable of hence no reason to see a decrease in drive.

ETA. My girl is both fetch (ball/frisbee/anything) and tug driven and would push herself to the point of collapse. The only time I would see a drop in drive is if we have been playing hard and she is reaching the point of physical exhaustion.

Yes agree, when pushed they are still focused mentally but are exhausted physically. When training I always stop before that point, so I don’t see the drop in drive then.

[Keshwar]

High Prey

High Prey

Play

And finally Prey again

The first two are chasing the lure.

3rd is playing chase with Jas

Last pic is looking at a Hare in the paddock.

[Diva]

Love that 2nd shot Keshwar