Images Of Dogs "in Drive"

[corvus]

I feel that "drive" is being used a bit freely to describe several different things. For the sake of clear communication (and the fun of looking at doggy pictures and videos), post your pictures/videos of dogs "in drive" here.

[Seita]

Ok I'll bite.

First clip is an early drive building session with Ella. The aim of the game is to build up drive for her toy, part way through the clip you can see that she completely shuts down and drops out of drive... you can see the distinct difference between her being "in prey drive" for the ball and being "out of drive" (ie not engaged) - http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/14/M9lzWg1Y3LE

Here is a later session of training in drive where we've progressed to heelwork - it's still in need of fine tuning at this stage but has progressed along way. You can see she is chewing on a bone at the start and you can see her "trigger" into drive: http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/9/TRhgp28SQPQ

And finally an Open trial in drive, well the first part of one any way, the other half is on my channel somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/3/tca-qcvSE9o

[luvsablue]

Hi Seita,

I watched all the films on your channel, they were great. You can definitely see improvement as Ella progresses through her training and trials.

luvsablue

[Kavik]

Here is my video of some drive work

[~*Shell*~]

Wow Seita - I've never seen that second video before. Ella is fantastic!

This is what Zero looks like when he's in prey drive - he lowers his head and eye stalks what he's about to go after, in this case, a toy. He may also crouch down a little and do this weird slinking side step so he's in the best position available to pounce. In the pic, his eye stalk isn't as focused as it would be if the fox toy was moving a little bit but considering I had the camera and treats in my hand, he's pretty focussed. I was lying between Zero and his stuffing-less fox in this pic and got no attention from him whatsoever, even though I had food and was lying on the ground (Zero loves it when i do that) in front of him. It's exactly the same thing if he's trying to get at a possum in a tree. The eye stalk first, then he orientates himself so he's in the best position he can be by lowering his body a little and side stepping or slinking forward (a bit like a border collie but not really - definitely not with the same grace or speed) and then he chases.

[Erny]

That's a great photo, Shell.

[Dova]

What can I do with Izzi, She's got NO drive, no interest in toys, play, or pats, she eats the treats but isn't that interested in them, I use all sorts of food, chicken, lamb, steak, pork, fritz, sausage, cheese & dog treats. We got through CCD, just, but I'm pretty sure that'll be as far as we'll go because Izzi's just not an obedience dog, I love her & wouldn't trade her for the world . Been great watching the videos keep em coming .

[Erny]

Dova - can you build on pack drive? This is about exemplifying your leadership. The Triangle of Temptation exercises are good for this.

[arawnhaus]

Here's and old one of cisco but it captures drive.

[corvus]

I'm putting my analysis hat on. Before anyone gets to accusing me of not knowing much about dogs, this is for my benefit and maybe it will help other people put in words what a dog "in drive" is.

Seita: that's what I think of as working level of drive, as you can see Ella is highly motivated, which gives her movements enthusiasm, but she is well in control of herself. I'm not about to get into the prey vs play argument again, but it's such a great example of what I think of as play drive. The way she puts bounce into her movements and lifts her front legs kind of stiffly when fetching the toy screams "I'm playing and it's so fuuuuun" to me. I think it's important to note that even though she is enthusiastic and focused, her ears are not always up and forward. It's hard to see on the videos, but you can kind of track her anticipation through the movement of her ears.

Shell: Zero's ears are the most obvious signal to me. They are very high and forward, which I take as a signal that the dog is very focused on something, but it goes beyond that to intention. Zero's anticipating a high energy activity that he finds intensely rewarding. Kivi gets this look when he's about to pounce on something. Possibly Erik, maybe a skink. He also gets this look when he wants to chase something.

Arawnhaus: What I love about this photo is that with the Rotti you can see how everything is pointing forwards. He (she?) can't put his ears up like Zero's, but you can see they'd be up there facing forward if he could. I also love the focus in those eyes as it just seems so diagnostic to me. It's nearly that glassy-eyed look when a dog is over the top. If the mouth was tighter and the tail higher, I would say it was.

Now compare that to this dog:

He's alert and interested, as you can see from the ears that are again high and forward, but his face is far more relaxed, his gaze has no intensity about it, his tail is relaxed, his body has little tension in it, his mouth is soft and his ears are not as forward as Zero's or Cisco's.

Now look at this little guy:

He's somewhere in between to me. His ears are up again, quite high and forward. The difference to me between him and Kivi above is mostly in his eyes. His gaze is more intense and there is more tightness to his mouth, although the slightly ajar look I interpret as happy anticipation. I fancy his ears a little more forward, but maybe not.

ETA those last two are not at what I would think of as in drive. I'm adding something out of drive to compare.

Edited January 10, 2010 by corvus

[corvus]

Ooops, forgot Kavik.

I think seeing videos is important to see the enthusiasm and motivation in the dog. Both Kaos and Ella jump readily trying to get at the toy, and it generally takes a bit of motivation for an animal to put that much effort into an activity.

Kaos has the same ears and intense gaze as the other dogs. You can see with both him and Ella that they move their heads very quickly, which I think is also characteristic of a dog "in drive".

ETA Here's something intersting that kind of illustrates the drive continuum. This is a video of Kivi playing tug. He's really not at a particularly high level of motivation, and it's interesting to note that his movements are slower than Ella and Kaos and you can see that while he is motivated enough to jump for the toy, he is hardly at the same level of motivation that they are. He doesn't jump as readily and tugs more lazily.

Edited January 10, 2010 by corvus

[huski]

Here's Daisy giving an example of K9's Triangle of Temptation program. She is working in food drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7mqImDNPRI

[huski]

Shell, that pic of Zero reminds me of this old pic of Micha:

TWINS!

[dogdude]

Corvus, drive is not defined by just body language alone. As I said in the other thread, its more about the desperation displayed by the dog to satisfy its prey drive. You almost sense the dog would walk over hot coals to acheive it. I have not sensed that before any other form of training.

I am not claiming one method is better than another though, just trying to explain how to spot a dog working in prey drive. There is a controlled desperation evident, one that is not easily distracted.

[huski]

ETA Here's something intersting that kind of illustrates the drive continuum. This is a video of Kivi playing tug. He's really not at a particularly high level of motivation, and it's interesting to note that his movements are slower than Ella and Kaos and you can see that while he is motivated enough to jump for the toy, he is hardly at the same level of motivation that they are. He doesn't jump as readily and tugs more lazily.

You're moving the toy a lot slower than Kavik or Seita do - I wonder how much faster and more into it Kivi would get if you put some real movement in the tug and made the game faster.

Edited January 10, 2010 by huski

[bedazzledx2]

Nice work Seita She is engaged and happy and willing to play with you. Lovely

I don't see any particular 'drive' being displayed other than play training or food reward in any of the videos on this thread so far. There are some examples of dogs working and training on my youtube site

but they were mainly put there to show distraction training. I wouldn't call any of these dogs in a particular drive....that's just the way we train. Whatever turns your dog on is used as a motivator/reward but training goes way beyond that. My dog is very very food motivated but of course you can't take food into the ring (nor can you leave it outside close to the ring here...against the rules) so I've had to transfer the food reward to a play reward without a toy. In other words a one on one game with me. I'll video that soon and put it up.

Ok I'll bite.

First clip is an early drive building session with Ella. The aim of the game is to build up drive for her toy, part way through the clip you can see that she completely shuts down and drops out of drive... you can see the distinct difference between her being "in prey drive" for the ball and being "out of drive" (ie not engaged) - http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/14/M9lzWg1Y3LE

Here is a later session of training in drive where we've progressed to heelwork - it's still in need of fine tuning at this stage but has progressed along way. You can see she is chewing on a bone at the start and you can see her "trigger" into drive: http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/9/TRhgp28SQPQ

And finally an Open trial in drive, well the first part of one any way, the other half is on my channel somewhere. http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden#p/u/3/tca-qcvSE9o

Edited January 10, 2010 by bedazzledx2

[huski]

Nice work Seita She is engaged and happy and willing to play with you. Lovely

I don't see any particular 'drive' being displayed other than play training or food reward in any of the videos on this thread so far. There are some examples of dogs working and training on my youtube site

but they were mainly put there to show distraction training. I wouldn't call any of these dogs in a particular drive....that's just the way we train. Whatever turns your dog on is used as a motivator/reward but training goes way beyond that. My dog is very very food motivated but of course you can't take food into the ring (nor can you leave it outside close to the ring here...against the rules) so I've had to transfer the food reward to a play reward without a toy. In other words a one on one game with me. I'll video that soon and put it up.

Bedazzled, I'm not sure we can put food or toys right outside the ring here either.

All the dogs I know who train in drive with remote rewards at trials do so with the reward quite a distance away. It's all in how you train it :D Drive is maintained in the ring and in between exercises, because that is how you train it. You can see in Seita's trialling videos that Ella maintains that same focus and drive in between exercises without Seita having to do much with her.

Food is a drive, and you can see the difference between a dog in food drive and a dog who is simply working for food exchange.

[ness]

So huski what differences do you see between a dog working in food drive verses one who is merely as you put it working on a food exchange basis?

I don't have have "drive" videos to contribute but I think a good example of a dog in drive is watching a decent dog on sheep. You can very easily see when the dog is "in drive" versus when the dog is playing.

[huski]

So huski what differences do you see between a dog working in food drive verses one who is merely as you put it working on a food exchange basis?

I see the difference in the dog's body language, in their desperation and drive for the food, their focus etc.

When Daisy is in (what I call) food drive, she has 110% focus on me, she's alert, her eyes are sharp, every response to a command is faster and sharper. As Dogdude put it, there's a desperation there to get the reward.

When she's simply working for food exchange, she's interested, but the focus and desperation isn't there. When she's in food drive, she will practically throw herself to the ground when I give the 'down' command, if it's food exchange her response is slower. She's not in that heightened state of arousal she gets to when she's working in drive.

You see it with dogs who aren't particularly food driven too. Sure, they'll take the food you give them, but they look like they are taking it cos it's there, and don't have that desperation and focus.

[ness]

I haven't trained Ness "in drive" but she will take your arm off when your working with food. Not sure I'd describe her as working in drive though .