Can You Suggest A Breed?

[felix]

OK, it's off topic, but I had to comment!

Hello to a fellow Darwinite.

[Gayle.]

I want one like this. The more I see these cream Lappies, the more I think I'm gonna have to start putting my name down with breeders so I can get one when we move. I definitely want another dog, and Lappies seem to have temperaments very similar to the best Aussie temperaments.

[Starkehre]

And my Poodle that wrestles with Rottis. Nothing foofy bout that.

[Starkehre]

.... and another

[felix]

And my Poodle that wrestles with Rottis. Nothing foofy bout that.

Definitely not foofy.

Lovely dogs.

Edited January 8, 2010 by felix

[Drumbeat]

I love poodles but I'd not want to live with a Cocker Spaniel. Their temperaments are quite different.

Could you explain the difference in temperaments to me, I haven't met many poodles??

[Crazy Daisy]

Why don't you ask them exactly what they like about a cocker x poodle? And why they don't want the purebred version of either breed.

There has to be reasons for them not liking the purebred versions. If it's just a haircut then google some photos or show them ones on here (I love that white standard in the terrier clip).

Personally I love cocker spaniels and I had a beautiful gold one named Bonnie when I was growing up.

Here is a photo of an american cocker with his hair grown out.

[WoofnHoof]

lagotto. Or google some images of a poodle with a pet cut and show her those.

Yes - some breeders have done poodles a great diservice by not showing how un-froo-froo a poodle can look

Not always the breeders fault, though, the "continental" clip is the common show coat - I would LOVE to see poodles shown in "sporting" or "lamb" clip - they look like REAL dogs.

THIS is not a "fooffy" poodle

Is there enough motivation to attempt this with the breed clubs? It might be worth putting it forward as an experimental class to get the profile of the alternative clips out there and in the public view and possibly get more people participating in the classes as well since a lower maintenance coat would probably appeal to people who may have wanted to show a poodle but didn't want the hassle of the traditional clip.

I understand that the traditional clip has great historical signficance but perhaps it's time to move forward to keep the breed going into the future?

Its a haircut people - get over it!!!!

I might agree - but it puts many people off becasue they think that is how poodles look - when poodles don't look froo-froo in their natural state.

The whole DD thing has really taken off because people want a poodle that doesn't look like a poodle

Agree, I know so many people who are put off by the look, it might only be a haircut but when people buy breed books or see images of poodles in the media it invariably invokes that association. A haircut can be a powerful thing, anyone remember the "Rachel"???

ETA frufru looks do have an influence on people's decisions on buying a dog, I mean if huskies weren't so damned good looking no one would put up with their more challenging attributes, I think if they had been an 'ugly' breed they would have been relegated to the history books as soon as dog sleds were no longer mainstream transport lol

Edited January 8, 2010 by WoofnHoof

[Gayle.]

But with poodles, how often would the average person even see one in a full show clip? Rarely, I suspect. So rarely that they would stop to take a second or third look. They might think they look "silly" (I personally think they look amazing) but I'd bet pounds to peanuts they'd be able to count on one hand the amount of times they've seen one being walked in public.

On the other hand, poodles are popular pets that most people wouldn't even realise was a poodle if they saw one because the vast majority of them AREN'T kept in a show clip. Due to the mass media, a lot of peoplke would see a purebred poodle and just assume it's a maltipoopenschnoodledoodle.

[JulesP]

I went through this with a friend. She wanted a certain scruffy look. Was after a larger dog. I suggested a standard poodle. Didn't like the look. I couldn't get a good pic of a scruffy poodle. There are some pics on this thread that I reckon would have swayed her. She ended up with a Poodle x Goldie form a petshop grrrrrrrrrrrr. A couple of months ago we were out lunching and there was a lovely brown standard poodle with a scruffy type cut. She loved it!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Tell your mate that the oodles are rather mental. I get heaps coming through my training classes and they are all a handful. They are just too much dog for the average pet owner.

[Jed]

Lagotto

The very best breeding dogs of any breed are the properly registered purebreds. No registered breeder would sell a halfway decent dog to a puppy farm, so the breeding dogs puppy farms use are purchased from pet shops, or from other puppy farms. So they are a long way from "quality". The occasional one is a registered purebred which was deemed not good enough for breeding and was sold as a pet. And the puppy farm acquired it by devious means. However, these are the minority, and some of the purebreds in puppy farms are purebred in name only.

There is no proof that the pup will be what the "papers" say it is, so if it is half Jack Russell, so sad, too bad, there is no avenue of complaint - except for the Department of Fair Trading and trying to prove that your dog is not what you bought is akin to trying to keep an iceblock in your glovebox in summer.

If the pup is indeed a cocker x poodle, it has a chance of inheriting coat type from both parents, so it may have cocker coat, or it may have poodle coat, or a mixture of the two. If the latter happens, the poodle wool will prevent the cocker hair from falling off the dog when it sheds, so it will be caught in huge unsightly mats.

As the 'soft' mouth of a cocker can lead to too many folds in the bottom lip which cause problems, good cocker breeders are aware of this, and breed away from it. The people who keep puppy farms have no idea, and will use anything which is female anyhow, so there is a problem that the pup will inherit a problem with folds which need cleaning out daily, which harbour infection, and which smell.

Both poodles and cockers can inherit PRA. Crossing the breeds does not make the genes which cause PRA fly out the window, so the parents should be DNA certified PRA clear.

If there is no "clear" certificate, your friend is possibly buying a dog which can go blind in middle age. Not to mention HD.

Poodles and cockers have different temperaments and natures, and when you cross them, you have no idea which the pup will inherit and sometimes it's not pretty.

Bit of a pig in a poke really. And at top prices. There was a time when people bought cross breds because they were cheaper, now they cost more.

I think a proper Lagotto, from a decent breeder, from health tested parents, would cost about the same as a pup reared with hundreds of others in a shed with no real idea about the parents. Mita has posted heaps of links to the study done by the Companion Animal Centre at UQ which proves the dogs turn out better, and make better pets when they are raised with a lot of breeder involvement and human interaction during their formative weeks. There is a earlier Spanish study which proves the same thing.

And a Lagotto will turn out similar to it's parents, both of whom are the same. There is no question about type, or coat, or anything else. What you see in the parents is what you get in the pup. Which is more than anyone can say about a cocker x spoodle. And you should get breeder involvement and help.

And surely there is some social kudos in owning a dog with a long history and ancestry? A dog which has proved itself over years and years.

If cocker x spoodle crosses are the ducks guts, as endlessly advertised, why do so many of them fetch up in the pound? Far more than cockers of poodles.

People who breed dogs for money cut corners, or didn't bother to find out, and didn't care. Ask her to ask them about DNA certificates for PRA and see what they say. It wont be pretty

Could be because they didn't turn out as expected. And why would they? How could anyone have any expectations for a cross bred dog?

If you could had enough money to buy a Mercedes, why on earth would you buy a car cobbled together from panels and bits from a holden and a volkswagon by someone with no teeth, few skills in an overgrown, weedly backyard, for the same price?

Or tell her to get a poodle, and give it a tough haircut!!

Edited January 8, 2010 by Jed

[Mags]

As has already been stated the coat on a poodle cross (I refuse to call them any of their DD names) vary considerably - I have seen them looking like a wolfhound cross (standard poodle cross with not a wolfhound anywhere to be seen - have seen several like this and from quite different crosses) to by far the worse I have seen - one that had to be kept clipped off because her coat formed dreadlocks as soon as it got any length at all. Is your friend ready to put up with a puppy that ends up looking absolutely nothing like the dog she wants? A dog that has been tested for nothing and could have genetic problems?

Amazes me that people are prepared to pay petstores a fortune for crossbred puppies that more than likely began life in a puppy farm! with all the associated suffering their parents go through. Show your friend this site Where DDs come from

Edited January 8, 2010 by Mags

[JulesP]

My friend was told that her pup's parents live on a farm I had told her the whole Leo story prior to the purchase btw.

[Gayle.]

A woman at our obedience club has got a poodle x cocker spaniel and it has the most manky coat. I don't think anyone told her she's supposed to brush it daily because it always looks knotty and matted. Occasionally she gets it clipped off and then it just looks downright stupid.

[WoofnHoof]

But with poodles, how often would the average person even see one in a full show clip? Rarely, I suspect. So rarely that they would stop to take a second or third look. They might think they look "silly" (I personally think they look amazing) but I'd bet pounds to peanuts they'd be able to count on one hand the amount of times they've seen one being walked in public.

On the other hand, poodles are popular pets that most people wouldn't even realise was a poodle if they saw one because the vast majority of them AREN'T kept in a show clip. Due to the mass media, a lot of peoplke would see a purebred poodle and just assume it's a maltipoopenschnoodledoodle.

That's the thing, poodles have never been associated with the short clip in media, dog shows or dog breed books, the poodles in the show clip are the ones people identify as poodles because there has never been a concentrated effort to change the image, they only have to see it once or twice in a this context to cement the 'image' of the poodle, similar to the 'handbag' association that chis have. I think so much could be done to show how versatile these dogs can be and how versatile their look can be. :D

[poodlefan]

But with poodles, how often would the average person even see one in a full show clip? Rarely, I suspect. So rarely that they would stop to take a second or third look. They might think they look "silly" (I personally think they look amazing) but I'd bet pounds to peanuts they'd be able to count on one hand the amount of times they've seen one being walked in public.

On the other hand, poodles are popular pets that most people wouldn't even realise was a poodle if they saw one because the vast majority of them AREN'T kept in a show clip. Due to the mass media, a lot of peoplke would see a purebred poodle and just assume it's a maltipoopenschnoodledoodle.

That's the thing, poodles have never been associated with the short clip in media, dog shows or dog breed books, the poodles in the show clip are the ones people identify as poodles because there has never been a concentrated effort to change the image, they only have to see it once or twice in a this context to cement the 'image' of the poodle, similar to the 'handbag' association that chis have. I think so much could be done to show how versatile these dogs can be and how versatile their look can be.

What small breed won the agility at the Purina World Dog Games.. a poodle. What breed will you see at many agility and obedience trials - the poodle. What sort of clip does the average poodle walking around the burbs and at the dog park wear - not the show one, that's for sure.

They've been army mascots, circus dogs, truffle dogs, guide dogs, assistance dogs and treasured family pets for a long time.

Many images of poodles are of those in lamb clip. But folk get hung up on the show clip.

And now one of the most people focussed, affectionate breeds suffers in those nightmares of puppy farms to produce cute fluffy pups for people who "don't want a foofy dog". :D:

Edited January 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[WoofnHoof]

What small breed won the agility at the Purina World Dog Games.. a poodle. What breed will you see at many agility and obedience trials - the poodle. What sort of clip does the average poodle walking around the burbs and at the dog park wear - not the show one, that's for sure.

They've been army mascots, circus dogs, truffle dogs, guide dogs, assistance dogs and treasured family pets for a long time.

Many images of poodles are of those in lamb clip. But folk get hung up on the show clip.

And now one of the most people focussed, affectionate breeds suffers in those nightmares of puppy farms to produce cute fluffy pups for people who "don't want a foofy dog". :

I don't think people get hung up on the clip I think they don't realise that they come in other styles :D If I didn't know anyone that had a poodle in lamb clip I wouldn't have even thought about it to be honest, if poodles in lamb clip aren't identified as poodles people will automatically assume they are a cross or something because that is the image which is associated with labradoodles and the like. It's all down to whether the name is associated with the look, like I said a lot of people think I carry my chi around in my handbag because of the image that has been presented over the years.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

And now one of the most people focussed, affectionate breeds suffers in those nightmares of puppy farms to produce cute fluffy pups for people who "don't want a foofy dog". :D

Yep, it's a disgrace. My sympathies are with anyone who loves a breed that is regularly farmed. While my breed is occasionally sought after for pig/hunting crosses, it's not at risk of being farmed and for that I am very grateful.

[Katdogs]

Last Spaniel X Poodle I met was sposed to be a Cav X. Promised by the 'breeder', and she knows because she had a photo of the father and mother on the wall.

Has Cocker ears, working dog energy, lovely nature, Poodle intelligence (+bored easily+ voice) but if she doesn't get groomed properly every few weeks then the gunk under the dreadlocks builds up quickly. Very mouthy (but soft), friendly-jumpy, and BIGGER than they expected from the nice lady at the 'farm'.

Great dog for active dog-savvy people with lots of time and ready for agility/obedience. But then again, she's a cross-breed, so maybe others in her litter are PERFECT!!!

[Snout Girl]

I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to reply to my post

I have to say, I think alll the pictures of poodles are gorgeous and not fru fruy at all. i will definently be showing some to my workmate on monday.

i think i finnish laphunds (sp?) and lagottos. what beautiful creatures. until today i had never even heard of a lagotto and now i have added a bread to my very long list of dogs i wish to own one day!

i have no idea what attracts her to the cocker x poodle. all she has said is 'its so cute' will talk to her monday a bit more about what has attracted her to this mix, and see if it matches up with breeds like the finnish laphund and lagotto.

one thing high on my list to ask is what amount of grooming/maintenance she is prepared to do. this could have a huge effect on what breed is right for her.

thanks again everyone, I'm trying to win a tough battle here and its great to know there are others in your corner :D